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Donald Trump for President of the USA

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511 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Nov 21 2016, 14:19

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Sluffy wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Sluffy wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Natasha Whittam wrote:
When I start my Natasha forum you will be banned before you join.

Delusional on so many levels.

Still, I suppose that's one way to  maintain the denial.

To be honest I think you are the one in denial Lusty.

In general terms the young of the two respective country's voted for 'Remain' and 'Clinton' yet as we know they both lost.

So an awful lot of people who have experienced many previous elections - and broken electoral promises - voted against.

I certainly don't think vast numbers of them actually really believed all (or even most) of what either side said during the elections - they didn't vote for Brexit because they were racist, nor voted for Trump because they really believed he would build a wall - they voted for them because they wanted a change from the way they have been going for the last twenty or thirty years.

For them, they have seen their 'world's' get worse, their prospects (and those of their children) decline and can't see anyway by going the way they have, that things will ever improve.

I think both France and Germany current political leaderships will both face a similar wave of discontent from the electorate the next time they go to the country - not because they are doing a bad job or are going in the wrong direction - but because many, many normal folk have seen things get gradually worse for them and their children and don't want to go down that road anymore.

You can rationalise Brexit and Trump any way you want but the bottom line to most people is that the EU and Washington wasn't benefiting them in their day to day perception and a change - any change - was better for them than carrying on the way they were.

In football terms the Cameron's, Clinton's and many other current traditional western leaders - seem to have lost the dressing room.
It's interesting that people who vote for Leave/Trump consistently imply that anyone who is genuinely concerned about what the future holds as a result of those decisions is a bad loser.
The world didn't end when we voted to leave the EU and neither did we lose the right to comment on politics or the economy. We commented on them before the referendum and will continue to do so if we wish.
I suppose calling someone a bad loser is a cheap shot to deflect attention away from the debate.

Ironically, it's the people who voted for change who are the most scared of change and the least accepting of the new reality - it's like they don't want to know what they've actually voted for. Lord forfend that they may have actually made a mistake as my neighbour suggested he might have when May told the CBI this morning that her great plan for economic recovery was to back Science and Innovation - which as we all know was Tony Blair's great plan too. The f***** was apopleptic when he realised that would involve opening Britain's doors to attract even more immigrants! Oh how we laughed.

Where do I say or imply that you are a bad loser?

Or are you yet again seeing things that simply are not there!

Sorry Sluffy -  hadn't realised that you are "people who voted for Leave/Trump". 
I should have written "Sluffy consistently implies" to avoid any confusion - or seeing things that simply aren't there.

512 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Nov 21 2016, 14:23

xmiles

avatar
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Sluffy wrote:
xmiles wrote:
I can't agree with your analysis sluffy and yes I did look at the link (nice graphics). The paradox is that dislike and fear of immigrants is not linked to the numbers of immigrants living in a location. So areas with very few immigrants can still be rabidly anti immigrant and areas with large immigrant populations like London can generally be very tolerant.

So affluent areas of the country populated with well educated electorates decided to forgo the certainty and financial benefits of remaining in the EU to vote against immigration - which does not largely effect them anyway because very few immigrants (or many of the rest of us for that matter) can afford to live in such areas in the first place!

I think not.

According to this poll "One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” It was the main reason apart from "taking back control" for people voting brexit.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjerJD4g7rQAhWeOsAKHdpnDtkQFggpMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Flordashcroftpolls.com%2F2016%2F06%2Fhow-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why%2F&usg=AFQjCNG0We5CZeCFGr_mfl8reRw_ZJ26wQ&sig2=PhwF4Gu17ZJJCWI51e9iOw

513 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Nov 21 2016, 14:24

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
boltonbonce wrote:
Very funny stuff from SNL but it's only bleeding heart liberals that watch it so I imagine that the midwest and rust belt states will still be expecting new jobs, deportations and a wall.

514 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Nov 21 2016, 14:36

boltonbonce

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
And Hillary behind bars.

515 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Nov 21 2016, 14:39

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:
Sluffy wrote:
xmiles wrote:
I can't agree with your analysis sluffy and yes I did look at the link (nice graphics). The paradox is that dislike and fear of immigrants is not linked to the numbers of immigrants living in a location. So areas with very few immigrants can still be rabidly anti immigrant and areas with large immigrant populations like London can generally be very tolerant.

So affluent areas of the country populated with well educated electorates decided to forgo the certainty and financial benefits of remaining in the EU to vote against immigration - which does not largely effect them anyway because very few immigrants (or many of the rest of us for that matter) can afford to live in such areas in the first place!

I think not.

According to this poll "One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” It was the main reason apart from "taking back control" for people voting brexit.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjerJD4g7rQAhWeOsAKHdpnDtkQFggpMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Flordashcroftpolls.com%2F2016%2F06%2Fhow-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why%2F&usg=AFQjCNG0We5CZeCFGr_mfl8reRw_ZJ26wQ&sig2=PhwF4Gu17ZJJCWI51e9iOw
Interesting stats although I still can't get my head round why 4% of UKIP members voted to stay in the EU - didn't they get it?

I do find it annoying that immigration and border control is and always has been under the control of Westminster, NOT Brussels and that the media and Leave campaign were allowed to perpetuate the lie that we had ceded control to Europe without the sanction of a lengthy prison sentence or two. 

But the fact is we could have introduced a points based immigration system at any time and it seems to me that successive governments have shied away from the idea purely because it wasn't invented here.

The poll does underline how the facts were avoided by both campaigns in favour of rhetoric.

516 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Nov 21 2016, 15:22

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
xmiles wrote:
Sluffy wrote:
xmiles wrote:
I can't agree with your analysis sluffy and yes I did look at the link (nice graphics). The paradox is that dislike and fear of immigrants is not linked to the numbers of immigrants living in a location. So areas with very few immigrants can still be rabidly anti immigrant and areas with large immigrant populations like London can generally be very tolerant.

So affluent areas of the country populated with well educated electorates decided to forgo the certainty and financial benefits of remaining in the EU to vote against immigration - which does not largely effect them anyway because very few immigrants (or many of the rest of us for that matter) can afford to live in such areas in the first place!

I think not.

According to this poll "One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” It was the main reason apart from "taking back control" for people voting brexit.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjerJD4g7rQAhWeOsAKHdpnDtkQFggpMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Flordashcroftpolls.com%2F2016%2F06%2Fhow-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why%2F&usg=AFQjCNG0We5CZeCFGr_mfl8reRw_ZJ26wQ&sig2=PhwF4Gu17ZJJCWI51e9iOw

This is from the same company who told us that nearly two-thirds of voters would vote Remain!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/26/two-thirds-voters-think-uk-will-remain-in-eu-ashcroft-poll

Hardly on the ball were they - or any other pollster come to that!

Recent polling predictions -

General Election - no party having overall majority - Wrong.

Britain will vote Remain - Wrong.

Clinton will beat Trump - Wrong.

Rolling Eyes

517 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Nov 21 2016, 15:35

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
wanderlust wrote:
Sluffy wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Sluffy wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Natasha Whittam wrote:
When I start my Natasha forum you will be banned before you join.

Delusional on so many levels.

Still, I suppose that's one way to  maintain the denial.

To be honest I think you are the one in denial Lusty.

In general terms the young of the two respective country's voted for 'Remain' and 'Clinton' yet as we know they both lost.

So an awful lot of people who have experienced many previous elections - and broken electoral promises - voted against.

I certainly don't think vast numbers of them actually really believed all (or even most) of what either side said during the elections - they didn't vote for Brexit because they were racist, nor voted for Trump because they really believed he would build a wall - they voted for them because they wanted a change from the way they have been going for the last twenty or thirty years.

For them, they have seen their 'world's' get worse, their prospects (and those of their children) decline and can't see anyway by going the way they have, that things will ever improve.

I think both France and Germany current political leaderships will both face a similar wave of discontent from the electorate the next time they go to the country - not because they are doing a bad job or are going in the wrong direction - but because many, many normal folk have seen things get gradually worse for them and their children and don't want to go down that road anymore.

You can rationalise Brexit and Trump any way you want but the bottom line to most people is that the EU and Washington wasn't benefiting them in their day to day perception and a change - any change - was better for them than carrying on the way they were.

In football terms the Cameron's, Clinton's and many other current traditional western leaders - seem to have lost the dressing room.
It's interesting that people who vote for Leave/Trump consistently imply that anyone who is genuinely concerned about what the future holds as a result of those decisions is a bad loser.
The world didn't end when we voted to leave the EU and neither did we lose the right to comment on politics or the economy. We commented on them before the referendum and will continue to do so if we wish.
I suppose calling someone a bad loser is a cheap shot to deflect attention away from the debate.

Ironically, it's the people who voted for change who are the most scared of change and the least accepting of the new reality - it's like they don't want to know what they've actually voted for. Lord forfend that they may have actually made a mistake as my neighbour suggested he might have when May told the CBI this morning that her great plan for economic recovery was to back Science and Innovation - which as we all know was Tony Blair's great plan too. The f***** was apopleptic when he realised that would involve opening Britain's doors to attract even more immigrants! Oh how we laughed.

Where do I say or imply that you are a bad loser?

Or are you yet again seeing things that simply are not there!

Sorry Sluffy -  hadn't realised that you are "people who voted for Leave/Trump". 
I should have written "Sluffy consistently implies" to avoid any confusion - or seeing things that simply aren't there.

Eh?

What the hell are you talking about?

You've quoted my whole post above in full and posted about something I had not said, or implied - about you being a bad loser.

When I asked you to clarify where I said or implied this you post some bollocks about "Sluffy consistently implies"...

Again I ask where have I said or implied that - certainly nowhere in my post you quote in full above!!!

You're seeing things that simply are not there - and not for the first time either!

518 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Nov 21 2016, 16:12

xmiles

avatar
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Sluffy wrote:
xmiles wrote:
Sluffy wrote:
xmiles wrote:
I can't agree with your analysis sluffy and yes I did look at the link (nice graphics). The paradox is that dislike and fear of immigrants is not linked to the numbers of immigrants living in a location. So areas with very few immigrants can still be rabidly anti immigrant and areas with large immigrant populations like London can generally be very tolerant.

So affluent areas of the country populated with well educated electorates decided to forgo the certainty and financial benefits of remaining in the EU to vote against immigration - which does not largely effect them anyway because very few immigrants (or many of the rest of us for that matter) can afford to live in such areas in the first place!

I think not.

According to this poll "One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” It was the main reason apart from "taking back control" for people voting brexit.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjerJD4g7rQAhWeOsAKHdpnDtkQFggpMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Flordashcroftpolls.com%2F2016%2F06%2Fhow-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why%2F&usg=AFQjCNG0We5CZeCFGr_mfl8reRw_ZJ26wQ&sig2=PhwF4Gu17ZJJCWI51e9iOw

This is from the same company who told us that nearly two-thirds of voters would vote Remain!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/26/two-thirds-voters-think-uk-will-remain-in-eu-ashcroft-poll

Hardly on the ball were they - or any other pollster come to that!

Recent polling predictions -

General Election - no party having overall majority - Wrong.

Britain will vote Remain - Wrong.

Clinton will beat Trump - Wrong.

Rolling Eyes

There is a big difference between asking "12,369 people after they had voted ... who voted for which outcome, and what lay behind their decision" and asking 5000 people to guess the outcome of a referendum in a month's time. The poll you quote was not asking people how they would vote but what they thought the result would be, so there is no evidence whatsoever that that poll was inaccurate!

There is plenty of evidence that anti immigrant sentiment was a big factor in the brexit vote.

519 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Nov 21 2016, 16:23

Cajunboy

avatar
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Sluffy wrote:
xmiles wrote:
Sluffy wrote:
xmiles wrote:
I can't agree with your analysis sluffy and yes I did look at the link (nice graphics). The paradox is that dislike and fear of immigrants is not linked to the numbers of immigrants living in a location. So areas with very few immigrants can still be rabidly anti immigrant and areas with large immigrant populations like London can generally be very tolerant.

So affluent areas of the country populated with well educated electorates decided to forgo the certainty and financial benefits of remaining in the EU to vote against immigration - which does not largely effect them anyway because very few immigrants (or many of the rest of us for that matter) can afford to live in such areas in the first place!

I think not.

According to this poll "One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” It was the main reason apart from "taking back control" for people voting brexit.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjerJD4g7rQAhWeOsAKHdpnDtkQFggpMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Flordashcroftpolls.com%2F2016%2F06%2Fhow-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why%2F&usg=AFQjCNG0We5CZeCFGr_mfl8reRw_ZJ26wQ&sig2=PhwF4Gu17ZJJCWI51e9iOw

This is from the same company who told us that nearly two-thirds of voters would vote Remain!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/26/two-thirds-voters-think-uk-will-remain-in-eu-ashcroft-poll

Hardly on the ball were they - or any other pollster come to that!

Recent polling predictions -

General Election - no party having overall majority - Wrong.

Britain will vote Remain - Wrong.

Clinton will beat Trump - Wrong.

Rolling Eyes
Marine Le Pen will become the next President of France????   Right or Wrong?

If she does,  then  it will be Frexit !!!

520 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Nov 21 2016, 16:38

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
xmiles wrote:
Sluffy wrote:
xmiles wrote:
Sluffy wrote:
xmiles wrote:
I can't agree with your analysis sluffy and yes I did look at the link (nice graphics). The paradox is that dislike and fear of immigrants is not linked to the numbers of immigrants living in a location. So areas with very few immigrants can still be rabidly anti immigrant and areas with large immigrant populations like London can generally be very tolerant.

So affluent areas of the country populated with well educated electorates decided to forgo the certainty and financial benefits of remaining in the EU to vote against immigration - which does not largely effect them anyway because very few immigrants (or many of the rest of us for that matter) can afford to live in such areas in the first place!

I think not.

According to this poll "One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” It was the main reason apart from "taking back control" for people voting brexit.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjerJD4g7rQAhWeOsAKHdpnDtkQFggpMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Flordashcroftpolls.com%2F2016%2F06%2Fhow-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why%2F&usg=AFQjCNG0We5CZeCFGr_mfl8reRw_ZJ26wQ&sig2=PhwF4Gu17ZJJCWI51e9iOw

This is from the same company who told us that nearly two-thirds of voters would vote Remain!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/26/two-thirds-voters-think-uk-will-remain-in-eu-ashcroft-poll

Hardly on the ball were they - or any other pollster come to that!

Recent polling predictions -

General Election - no party having overall majority - Wrong.

Britain will vote Remain - Wrong.

Clinton will beat Trump - Wrong.

Rolling Eyes

There is a big difference between asking "12,369 people after they had voted ... who voted for which outcome, and what lay behind their decision" and asking 5000 people to guess the outcome of a referendum in a month's time. The poll you quote was not asking people how they would vote but what they thought the result would be, so there is no evidence whatsoever that that poll was inaccurate!

There is plenty of evidence that anti immigrant sentiment was a big factor in the brexit vote.

I'm not saying it wasn't but the answer you get to polls depend on how you word the question - free from bias or leading to a certain outcome - and who you ask.

It also depends on how truthful the answer given is.

My point was more about how pollsters have got the outcomes so badly wrong in the most recent key elections.

I think the model that pollsters have used - and with quite a high degree of success until fairly recently, it most be said - is now out of sync with how real people these days react to them - hence the recent run of wrong calls on the election outcomes.

I'd personally be more cautious of believing what a poll based on 12,000 responses states happened on an election that involved almost 17.4 million people voting for Brexit.

A sample size of just 0.069%

521 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Tue Nov 22 2016, 08:27

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
What planet is this clown on?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/22/nigel-farage-uk-ambassador-us-donald-trump

People keep banging on about him (hopefully) having normal people around him and enough checks and balances in place to keep him in line, but he's at it already and he's not even president yet.

Somebody needs to grip him by the spuds and tell him to stay the fuck off Twitter.

If he doesn't see the problem with what he's doing, that's bad enough but if he does understand the implications of his actions and he's doing it to send a message to the British government, that's even worse.

Diplomacy should be done in locked rooms, not over the fucking internet with a 140 character limit.

522 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Tue Nov 22 2016, 11:32

Boggersbelief

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
What's wrong with sending messages out on twitter? It has a huge audience, you need to get with the times, Donald has

523 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Tue Nov 22 2016, 15:48

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bread2.0 wrote:Diplomacy should be done in locked rooms, not over the fucking internet with a 140 character limit.

"Make America Great Again" is 24 characters if you include the spaces and exclude the parentheses yet it won an election despite meaning as many different things as the number of people who read it.

Compared to soundbites and slogans, Twitter is War and Peace.

524 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Tue Nov 22 2016, 16:21

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
He could have posted his entire manifesto in one tweet:

"Build That Wall! Smash ISIS! Lock Her Up! Make America Great Again!"

Yup, a mere 66 characters which changed the world.

525 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Tue Nov 22 2016, 16:42

rammywhite

avatar
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Bread2.0 wrote:He could have posted his entire manifesto in one tweet:

"Build That Wall! Smash ISIS! Lock Her Up! Make America Great Again!"

Yup, a mere 66 characters which changed the world.

Unfortunately not as he's already reneged on two of these and will fail at the other two.
Other mad politicians have changed the world for the worse (try Adolf and Joe Stalin)- but Donald the Dickhead won't mange to do much damage.

526 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Tue Nov 22 2016, 16:49

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Hope you're right, Rammy.

Difference is though, Uncle Joe and The Mad Austrian Dwarf didn't have access to The Bomb.

This dickhead does....

527 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Tue Nov 22 2016, 16:50

Boggersbelief

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
So dramatic haha

528 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Nov 23 2016, 00:48

Lard Lad

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Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
The worst thing about all this is that Kate McKinnon is a Lesbian.

529 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Nov 23 2016, 09:30

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Don't worry AD, she'll soon get licked into shape  Very Happy

530 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Nov 23 2016, 09:50

whatsgoingon

avatar
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Lard Lad wrote:The worst thing about all this is that Kate McKinnon is a Lesbian.
She just hasn't met you yet mate  Very Happy

531 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Nov 23 2016, 16:52

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker

532 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Nov 23 2016, 20:34

terenceanne

avatar
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Lard Lad wrote:The worst thing about all this is that Kate McKinnon is a Lesbian.

Is that true ?   what a waste of P***y  Sad 

Or the Donald will be unable to grab that one then.

533 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Nov 23 2016, 20:44

Boggersbelief

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP!

534 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Nov 23 2016, 20:57

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Just read this bullshit in the comments on a Trump video on YouTube.

There is nothing that these people won't swallow....

 
He settled out of court because he wanted a clean slate next year and that's one less thing on his mind. Besides, No one in the lawsuit complained about the 25mil payoff. They all seemed pretty happy with it. And he's not going to run his business anymore. He already announced a while back he's handing the business over to his children to prevent conflict of interests.

535 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Nov 23 2016, 21:02

boltonbonce

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
“Say what you will about Trump, he is not stupid. He is a smart man with a deep understanding of what stupid people want.”―Andy Borowitz

536 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Fri Nov 25 2016, 14:50

boltonbonce

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

537 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Dec 04 2016, 10:24

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
And here's a happy little tune, full of Christmas cheer, that I'm sure many on here will enjoy.  Very Happy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW85ZcswiqM&feature=youtu.be

538 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Thu Dec 08 2016, 20:30

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
More fun and games from over the pond:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-andrew-puzder_us_584739b0e4b0b9feb0da1b7c

Let's see if all those retards who believe that The Donald will make 'Murica great again are still crowing in another 12 months when they're all working an extra 20 hours a week for no extra pay.

(And yes, I know I keep banging on about it but Carl's Jnr features prominently in Idiocracy.)

539 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Thu Dec 08 2016, 20:59

Boggersbelief

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

540 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Fri Dec 09 2016, 00:04

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
It's a phenomenal bit of promotional marketing.

It beautifully captures the ongoing struggle for power between governments (elected or otherwise) and  corporate businesses. 

Like Richard Desmond's group's bid for control of Britain's political structure.

What they fail to mention is that Governments have a broader remit than businesses therefore have to have a different negotiating position.

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