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Brexit - A new twist!

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211 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 13:13

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
okocha wrote:Wanderlust: take your pick from the articles below and then tell us that you know better. You are beginning to resemble Trump in your denials of facts!


'Brexit' could trigger World War Three, warns David Cameron - Mirror ...




www.mirror.co.uk › News › UK News › EU Referendum
9 May 2016 - Mr Cameron told pro-EU campaigners: "Can we be so sure peace ... no plans for Brexit - despite David Cameron claiming it could trigger war.


David Cameron: Brexit could lead to Europe descending into war




www.telegraph.co.uk › News

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Is David Cameron right that leaving EU could increase the risk of war ...




https://www.theguardian.com › World › Foreign policy
9 May 2016 - PM has raised spectre of conflict to support case for UK remaining in EU. We look at whether his claims stand up to scrutiny.



David Cameron warns Brexit would lead to war and genocide | Daily ...




www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Now-Cameron-warns-Brexit-lead-war-genocide-PM-s-extraordi...
8 May 2016 - Dire warning: David Cameron will deliver a dramatic speech that will .... Professor David Abulafia, have dismissed the claim that the EU has ...


EU referendum: Cameron says UK exit could put peace at risk - BBC ...




www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36243296


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9 May 2016 - David Cameron says peace could be put at risk by leaving the European ... During the course of political campaigns the claims being made on ...

Cameron's Latest Desperate Threat: Vote Remain Or Get World War III




www.breitbart.com/.../camerons-latest-desperate-stunt-leave-europe-get-third-world-w...


9 May 2016 - Cameron's Latest Desperate Threat: Vote Remain Or Get World War III ... Claim: Winston Churchill would have campaigned to Remain ... Germany will invade France and WW3 will start, we will be unable to trade with Europe, ...



EU referendum: David Cameron says 'Brexit' could spark World War III ...




www.dailyrecord.co.uk › News › Politics › European Union
9 May 2016 - EU referendum: David Cameron says 'Brexit' could spark World War III .... Vote Leave said "claims that leaving the EU and taking back control ...


...and not a single one of them came from Cameron's lips. None. Zero. Zilch.

Read what he actually said and not what the hacks make up.

The only fact you've quoted is that journalists put their own words into Cameron's mouth in order to create the headline.

Can't you see it?


I'll ask you again. Show me just one quote where Cameron actually says Brexit could spark World War 3 as you claim he did.

Not a newspaper headline invented by a journo. A quote from Cameron actually saying it.

You got anything or are you just going to continue quoting hacks as if they have anything to do with the truth or the facts?

212 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 14:49

Copper Dragon

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
What Cameron said was........

The truth is this, what happens in our neighbourhood matters to Britain.
That was true in 1914, in 1940 and in 1989. Or, you could add 1588, 1704 and 1815... And if things go wrong in Europe, let's not pretend we can be immune from the consequences.


The European Union has helped reconcile countries which were once at each others’ throats for decades. Britain has a fundamental national interest in maintaining common purpose in Europe to avoid future conflict between European countries.


So no he didn't mention a World War 3, but he did his politician speak to say... pulling out of the EU could cause future conflict in Europe.

213 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 14:58

xmiles

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
So Cameron never mentioned WW3 and what he said was actually reasonable.

Now let's compare that to actual lies spouted by the brexiteers starting with Gisela Stuart:

"Every week we send £350m to Brussels.

I'd rather that we control how to spend that money, and if I had that control I would spend it on the NHS".

Now that the brexiteers have control how much of that £350m is going to be spent on the NHS?

214 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 15:05

Copper Dragon

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
I think that it was established long ago that there was a campaign of bullshit from both sides.

However I can't see any lies (as yet) in what Gisela Stuart said, and neither can I see her in control of anything.

215 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 15:15

xmiles

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
I can't dispute your point about bullshit on both sides but I have a particular problem with the £350m claim. This is a classic case of framing. The brexit camp knew full well that this was the gross weekly contribution to the EU and that most of it came back in various ways from the EU. Yet they carried on pretending that it was the correct figure and that they would spend this money on the NHS. Literally as soon as thjey won they denied that they had said this - see for example IDS denying it on Good Morning Britain:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjj3oSlirPSAhVqDMAKHai1DM4QFggeMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mirror.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-news%2Fiain-duncan-smith-backtracks-over-8285234&usg=AFQjCNH-7auYyEE1tVAd-iec5ALs8PgSqw&sig2=-F6PQZKEFw0XICoqr96qlw

216 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 15:22

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Copper Dragon wrote:What Cameron said was........

The truth is this, what happens in our neighbourhood matters to Britain. TRUE
That was true in 1914, in 1940 and in 1989. Or, you could add 1588, 1704 and 1815... And if things go wrong in Europe, let's not pretend we can be immune from the consequences. TRUE


The European Union has helped reconcile countries which were once at each others’ throats for decades. TRUE Britain has a fundamental national interest in maintaining common purpose in Europe to avoid future conflict between European countries. TRUE


So no he didn't mention a World War 3, but he did his politician speak to say... pulling out of the EU could cause future conflict in Europe.
You're getting it Stan. He didn't ever mention WW3 apart from in his rebuttal but the papers (and Okocha) said he did.

I totally disagree with the spin that was put on his words though. The way I understood it was that being in the EU;
1) acts as a buffer from potential problems - effectively pushing the UKs boundaries away from our shores
2) reduces the chance of conflict amongst our near neighbours - unlikely largely because the EU...
3) has been a catalyst in improving relationships amongst EU countries 

...all of which is true.

It wasn't "politician speak" as you call it, but "media speak" as it was the media that put that particular spin on his words and blew them up into something else.

217 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 15:28

RustyNail


David Ngog
David Ngog
I work in the criminal justice system and so when I voted out I did it because I firmly believe we should be able to pick and choose who we want in the country.
The crime figures are disproportional for people from certain countries. For example, there are loads of polish people in Bolton yet I have only had a couple on my books in the past 4 years. Yet I have had dozens of Romanian and Hungarians, even though they are here in much smaller numbers.

This isnt relevant to brexit but a lot of people have criticised the amount of refugees we took from Syria. However, Asian and\or muslim male sex offenders, again the figures are massively disproportional to the population. These are facts not opinion.

I barely heard a single decent argument during the months of debate before the vote so I have based my opinion on my own knowledge of crime figures which show that certain nationalities are committing far more crimes than others. Why would you want them in the country?

218 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 15:33

Norpig

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Jussi Jääskeläinen
Jussi Jääskeläinen
The Poles do seem to be getting a hard time at the moment which is very unfair as from my personal experience they are very hard working

Did anyone see the Panorama programme about Slough last night? All the business owners interviewed were worried that they will end up losing their foreign workers as they rely on them greatly and said they have a better work ethic than the locals!

219 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 15:45

RustyNail


David Ngog
David Ngog
I've known loads of people who have worked with poles and they can't speak highly enough about them. Clearly from what I see they come to work and I don't see how anyone can have a problem with that.

Other nationalities come to commit crime and try claim ESA due to 'anxiety and depression' and that is where I and others have a problem.

220 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 16:04

Copper Dragon

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Norpig wrote:The Poles do seem to be getting a hard time at the moment which is very unfair as from my personal experience they are very hard working

Did anyone see the Panorama programme about Slough last night? All the business owners interviewed were worried that they will end up losing their foreign workers as they rely on them greatly and said they have a better work ethic than the locals!


To be fair if the Slough locals moved to say Krakow where they could get four times the money than they could back at home, then their work ethic would be better.

221 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 16:09

Norpig

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Jussi Jääskeläinen
Jussi Jääskeläinen
i'm not so sure Copper, we are going to have a real problem with trying to get the dossers in this country to do these low paid jobs that are being done by immigrants, they see it as being beneath them

I'd much rather have someone from abroad such as a Pole coming here and getting a job, contributing and paying taxes than the career dole underclass we have in this country who have never done a days work and probably never will

222 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 16:36

xmiles

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
RustyNail wrote:I work in the criminal justice system and so when I voted out I did it because I firmly believe we should be able to pick and choose who we want in the country.
The crime figures are disproportional for people from certain countries. For example, there are loads of polish people in Bolton yet I have only had a couple on my books in the past 4 years. Yet I have had dozens of Romanian and Hungarians, even though they are here in much smaller numbers.

This isnt relevant to brexit but a lot of people have criticised the amount of refugees we took from Syria. However, Asian and\or muslim male sex offenders, again the figures are massively disproportional to the population. These are facts not opinion.

I barely heard a single decent argument during the months of debate before the vote so I have based my opinion on my own knowledge of crime figures which show that certain nationalities are committing far more crimes than others. Why would you want them in the country?

I can't really follow your logic on this Rusty. You say you based your vote on your knowledge of crime figures and yet you say that "Asian and\or muslim male sex offenders, again the figures are massively disproportional to the population." But as you surely know these people are immigrants from countries NOT in the EU and I very much doubt that many of them are from Syria.

223 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 17:13

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Glos: unemployment figures are expressed as a percentage of the working population so the total number is irrelevant.
This may be true, but in reality, I actually remember there being a real choice of jobs when I was younger, rather than have anything from 20 to 200 people applying for each one, as it is nowadays.

224 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 17:37

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I remember going to the Youth Employment office in Farnworth,where I was asked,'What would you like to do?'
Had a huge choice at the time. If I didn't like one job,I could go back and try something else.
Seems crazy when I look back.

225 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 18:00

Cajunboy

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Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Are you a bus driver?


No, I've never had a Chip Shop.

226 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 18:07

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Cajunboy wrote:Are you a bus driver?


No, I've never had a Chip Shop.
I've never driven a bus. What a nightmare for the passengers that would be.
It's just that,the older I get the more an old bus gets me going.
I also have a disturbing interest in railway station chocolate bar vending machines.
Now,if my lift turns up,I'm off to the match.

227 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 18:52

RustyNail


David Ngog
David Ngog
xmiles wrote:
RustyNail wrote:I work in the criminal justice system and so when I voted out I did it because I firmly believe we should be able to pick and choose who we want in the country.
The crime figures are disproportional for people from certain countries. For example, there are loads of polish people in Bolton yet I have only had a couple on my books in the past 4 years. Yet I have had dozens of Romanian and Hungarians, even though they are here in much smaller numbers.

This isnt relevant to brexit but a lot of people have criticised the amount of refugees we took from Syria. However, Asian and\or muslim male sex offenders, again the figures are massively disproportional to the population. These are facts not opinion.

I barely heard a single decent argument during the months of debate before the vote so I have based my opinion on my own knowledge of crime figures which show that certain nationalities are committing far more crimes than others. Why would you want them in the country?

I can't really follow your logic on this Rusty. You say you based your vote on your knowledge of crime figures and yet you say that "Asian and\or muslim male sex offenders, again the figures are massively disproportional to the population." But as you surely know these people are immigrants from countries NOT in the EU and I very much doubt that many of them are from Syria.
Try reading again. I've put it in bold to help you.

228 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 19:43

xmiles

avatar
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
RustyNail wrote:
xmiles wrote:
RustyNail wrote:I work in the criminal justice system and so when I voted out I did it because I firmly believe we should be able to pick and choose who we want in the country.
The crime figures are disproportional for people from certain countries. For example, there are loads of polish people in Bolton yet I have only had a couple on my books in the past 4 years. Yet I have had dozens of Romanian and Hungarians, even though they are here in much smaller numbers.

This isnt relevant to brexit but a lot of people have criticised the amount of refugees we took from Syria. However, Asian and\or muslim male sex offenders, again the figures are massively disproportional to the population. These are facts not opinion.

I barely heard a single decent argument during the months of debate before the vote so I have based my opinion on my own knowledge of crime figures which show that certain nationalities are committing far more crimes than others. Why would you want them in the country?

I can't really follow your logic on this Rusty. You say you based your vote on your knowledge of crime figures and yet you say that "Asian and\or muslim male sex offenders, again the figures are massively disproportional to the population." But as you surely know these people are immigrants from countries NOT in the EU and I very much doubt that many of them are from Syria.
Try reading again. I've put it in bold to help you.

So you voted Leave "based my opinion on my own knowledge of crime figures which show that certain nationalities are committing far more crimes than others" and these nationalities are not "Asian and\or muslim male sex offenders" or Poles but Romanians and Hungarians.

However the UK always had the power "to pick and choose who we want in the country". See for example this below, it's just that no government chose to exercise these powers because employers wanted cheap labour:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi7lf2dxbPSAhVnLMAKHc6CAFAQFgg1MAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Flawyers-inforbritain.uk%2Fb-m-a%2Fcan-the-uk-control-its-borders-if-it-remains-in-the-eu%2F&usg=AFQjCNEppdmkiP6wgQ0jHpGMHE3Dg9iASA&sig2=_z5OzlQwgLTSOUuQpjN-wQ

229 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 21:24

RustyNail


David Ngog
David Ngog
I can't be arsed reading your link, particularly as it doesn't look like the world's most official website. Why on earth would the remain camp not use that as an argument if what you are saying is accurate? And why would all sides pretend otherwise for all of these years? Doesn't make sense to me.

230 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Feb 28 2017, 22:19

xmiles

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
If you read the link you would find out.

It is completely factual not opinion.

231 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Tue Mar 28 2017, 14:38

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Not quite sure what to make of this, but a number of MPs have walked out of the Commons Brexit Select Committee as they consider the committees' contribution towards the Brexit White Paper to be "too gloomy". 

The report sets out what the Government's goals should be in the Brexit negotitions. Here's the story.

The Select Committee is an all-party working group chaired by Hilary Benn (a Remainer) so maybe the protesters are thinking it's just negative propaganda a la "Project Fear" but with Brexit champion David Davis having already U turned on immigration this week I'm struggling to see what they want it to say without completely disregarding the reality and consequences of what we're doing. I know that worked in the referendum but surely the facts have to be faced sometime? At least that idiot Davis is starting to realise what's really happening.

What isn't clear is whether or not the protesters are planning to produce an alternative happy clappy report.

232 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Wed Mar 29 2017, 12:01

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Here we go then. Article 50 day is finally upon us. Here's a summary of the key issues the negotiation team will face in the areas of Immigration, Security, Business, Defence, Health, Education, Science, the Environment, Farming and Fishing. I suppose other key issues are the massive amount of money we owe the EU and the unwillingness of several EU leaders to support a swift and clean exit but we'll find out more about that when negotiations commence.

233 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Wed Mar 29 2017, 12:19

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Is WWIII starting today then? Should I be stockpiling Twirls and Pepsi ahead of the predicted 500% price increase?



Last edited by Natasha Whittam on Wed Mar 29 2017, 13:23; edited 1 time in total

234 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Wed Mar 29 2017, 12:30

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Natasha Whittam wrote:Is WWIII starting today then? Should I be stockpiling Twirls and Pepsi ahead of the predicted 500% prince increase?

We will leave the EU two years from today although the negotiations about the terms and conditions of the exit could drag on much longer.
This is what will happen next,

235 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Fri Mar 31 2017, 22:57

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
EU rules out early trade talks with UK.

Which was expected as their obvious strategy would be to get UK committed to the point where we would have to accept whatever they offer.

This is the time for May and Davis to show a bit of strength i.e. "f*** that, we'll talk about it now or else...."

Now is the time for those Leave campaigners to show the world why they argued that we are so strong and why the EU "has no choice but to give us a good deal".

Come on then May - break out the big British stick we've heard so much about.

In your own time then.....

236 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Sat Apr 01 2017, 00:59

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Stop whinging.

At least we'll be able to send all them foreigners back.

Them smelly ones. Dirty foreigners....Eurgh!

Apart from the ones we need to keep our factories going: They can stay.

We will always need 99p ready meals in a post-Brexit Britain, never forget that!

And the ones who clean the toilets at The Macron can stay.

Nobody likes a dirty bog. That's just not British, is it?

And the ones that we married.

Obviously.....they're not really foreign, are they?

They're like us, aren't they? They must be....?

Ooh, hang on a minute.....could they all be like that?

That'd never occurred to me before.

Are foreigners the same as us....? Nah, they can't be - We're British!

237 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Sat Apr 01 2017, 12:13

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bread2.0 wrote:

And the ones that we married.

Obviously.....they're not really foreign, are they?



Are foreigners the same as us....? Nah, they can't be - We're British!
Farage is German married to a German and Johnson is a Russian married to an Indian. But technically they're all British - whatever that is....

Maybe all leave voters have immigrant ancestry ?

238 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Apr 03 2017, 09:34

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
One for Mr Pig.

If you mute the shouting, you should still be able to concentrate on the "matter in hand" and get a good rhythm going:

239 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Apr 03 2017, 13:08

Norpig

avatar
Jussi Jääskeläinen
Jussi Jääskeläinen
too many other wankers on screen to concentrate fully on the lovely Susanna  Very Happy

240 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Apr 03 2017, 13:40

boltonbonce

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Norpig wrote:too many other wankers on screen to concentrate fully on the lovely Susanna  Very Happy
Reid always strikes me as a bit of a tart.
I much prefer the class of historian Dr Suzannah Lipscomb.

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