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Brexit - A new twist!

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91 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Sat Nov 05 2016, 21:06

NickFazer

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Nat your the exception that proves the rule  Very Happy

92 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Sat Nov 05 2016, 23:06

xmiles

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Natasha Whittam wrote:
NickFazer wrote:Rise above it Glos I tend to find that people resorting to name calling or shouting have generally lost the argument.

You bellend, I'm yet to lose an argument.

Laughing

93 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Sun Nov 06 2016, 10:23

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Bread2.0 wrote:Again, I can only speak with any authority on the evidence of my own experience.

And without exception, 100% of the Leave voters I know (and they are manifold) voted that way because they wanted to send all the Poles back and stop Muslims coming to this country.

And that nice Mr Farage told them that's what would start happening on June 24th.

And they believed him.

Along with the extra £350m a week that the NHS would start receiving.

Which he subsequently admitted was a load of made-up bullshit.

Conversely, 100% of the Remain voters I know did so because they couldn't see any cogent argument for leaving the EU. They're not EU fanatics, they just hadn't been given any fact-based reason to justify leaving it.

So on balance and from my own personal experience, I'd say my lot were brighter and a lot more rounded and balanced in their thought processes than the other lot.
Pretty much sums up the reason I voted to remain. 
As I have said many times in many places on this subject, the three main movers on the exit band wagon are three of the most odious twats known to man, tread carefully is my motto where they are concerned. 
And they call Hillary Clinton a liar and folk can't see what's under their noses?

94 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Sun Nov 06 2016, 11:00

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Soul Kitchen wrote:the three main movers on the exit band wagon are three of the most odious twats known to man

You're one, who are the other two?

95 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Sun Nov 06 2016, 11:56

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Go on, Jezza !!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-block-article-50-theresa-may-cannot-guarantee-single-market-access-brexit-a7400266.html

And it was interesting to see how the Tory wankers at The Telegraph responded to that - By lying. Again.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/06/labour-will-block-article-50-unless-theresa-may-agrees-to-jeremy/

The headline states that Corbyn was "forced to clarify that Labour will not block the triggering of A50" but if you read the piece, nowhere in it does he do that.

They clumsily shoehorn in a quote from Corbyn's right hand man Tom Watson, made almost a week ago (ie before Corbyn's comments), stick a big picture of his face underneath it to cement the illusion and then go on to quote some un-named source "close to Corbyn" who says that A50 won't be blocked.

So Corbyn didn't say it, Watson said it but not in direct response to this latest twist because it was nearly a week ago and the only person they can find who did say it is un-named and we have no proof of their provenance with regards any relationship with Corbyn and for all we know, they could have made the whole thing up.

More outright lies from the right wing press.

I think they're running scared......

96 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Sun Nov 06 2016, 12:50

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Don't b an arse. It was repeated by MP's of both sides this morning on the political shows on TV. Corbyn ran away when he was asked a leading question yesterday, being protected by his press secretary. He's more interested in whether the local shop assistants are being fairly paid than looking toward to steering the country through what is a monumental part of our history.

97 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Sun Nov 06 2016, 12:55

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Why am I being an arse for pointing out that The Telegraph is telling lies?

98 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Sun Nov 06 2016, 13:03

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Good question. Its your interpretation of it. 
I think its because everything you have put down so far I have disagreed with. and automatically assumed this was the same. I'll go and have a lie down, and think to myself, 'is Bread becoming reasonable' ?  Very Happy

99 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Sun Nov 06 2016, 14:17

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
To be fair and balanced, I feel compelled to state that Corbyn has indeed subsequently clarified his position and confirmed that the intention is not to block the triggering of A50.

But my point stands - He hadn't done so at the time that article in The Telegraph was published.

100 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 11:09

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Bread2.0 wrote:But my point stands - He hadn't done so at the time that article in The Telegraph was published.
Maybe he had and that the source close to Corbyn was aware of that and the Telegraph article was accurate.
Lots of this comes down to which papers agree with your position and which don't and you choose to believe the ones which do and refute the ones you don't.
The papers like most things are subjective and to state that one which agrees with you is telling the truth and one which doesn't is lying shows a real arrogance and lack of flexibility.

101 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 11:10

Guest


Guest
The Telegraph, Express, Mail and Sun are rags. All proven to print factually incorrect stories time and time again.

102 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 11:13

Reebok Trotter

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
bwfc1874 wrote:The Telegraph, Express, Mail and Sun are rags. All proven to print factually incorrect stories time and time again.

And what do you suggest we peruse instead? The Guardian? The Spectator? The Mirror?

103 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 11:14

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
If that is the case, who proves them wrong ? Is it the same people/papers ? If so, it could be them misconstruing the information to their own way of thinking, could it not ?

104 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 11:15

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
RT, you coming down tomorrow night ?

105 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 11:16

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
bwfc1874 wrote:The Telegraph, Express, Mail and Sun are rags. All proven to print factually incorrect stories time and time again.
You can say that about all the newspapers in the country, they are all agenda driven but you choose to believe some more than others because you want to because they agree with you.
If it was as simple as some tell the truth the whole time and some lie the whole time it would be very straightforward, the truth is it isn't straightforward and they are all as bad as each other.

106 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 11:30

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
At the end of the day, we can all choose to source our news coverage wherever we like, obviously.

And we're all going to err on the side of believing something if it's being reported in a publication which tends to mirror our own views - That's human nature.

The skill is in being able to pick out the bits which are factually undeniable and use them as a basis for your opinions, irrespective of where they were reported.

Provided you cast your net wide enough and obtain as much information as possible, it is still possible to get enough of a handle on most stories to be able to do this.

The problem comes when people source their news solely from one outlet.

Like Fox in the States, for example.

In the modern world of 24 hour rolling coverage, all the networks are scrambling to report even the tiniest snippets of "news" if they think it can give them an edge over their competitors.

And that's where the problems start because the serious issues get lost amongst all the dross.

It's all about glib soundbites and dumbed-down appeals to society's baser instincts nowadays and that's how idiots like Farage and Trump somehow become accepted a serious politicians.

They're a pair of self-serving wankers who would be hard-pressed to list their own policies, let alone their opponent's but because they supposedly "speak for the people" it no longer appears to matter.

As someone said on 5Live this morning, how low has the bar been set nowadays, that we're taking the time to seriously discuss whether or not Trump's comments about "grabbing women by the pussy" should have a negative effect on his suitability for senior office.

It's ridiculous.



Last edited by Bread2.0 on Mon Nov 07 2016, 11:31; edited 1 time in total

107 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 11:30

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
gloswhite wrote:RT, you coming down tomorrow night ?

s'okay. I've seen the proper thread. See you in there

108 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 11:34

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
It'll be over by Wednesday, and that's when the fan gets turned on.  Neutral

109 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 11:44

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
gloswhite wrote:It'll be over by Wednesday, and that's when the fan gets turned on.  Neutral
unfortunately which ever way it goes shit is going to hit it when it does

110 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 12:27

Guest


Guest
whatsgoingon wrote:
bwfc1874 wrote:The Telegraph, Express, Mail and Sun are rags. All proven to print factually incorrect stories time and time again.
You can say that about all the newspapers in the country, they are all agenda driven but you choose to believe some more than others because you want to because they agree with you.
If it was as simple as some tell the truth the whole time and some lie the whole time it would be very straightforward, the truth is it isn't straightforward and they are all as bad as each other.

Simply put, they are not all as bad as each other. As Bread mentions above the 'skill' is being able to pick out what's fact and what's opinion being presented as fact. The Fox News example is spot on, the most watched news channel in the US and it's the only one pushing that climate change is a lie, so 40% of Americans don't believe in climate change largely on that basis! 

The paper's I've listed above are consistently pushing the boundaries and often found to have overstepped the mark in a way that The Times, Guardian, Independent or the BBC simply do not. 

You can't take everything you read from any publication as gospel, but you can make an informed decision on what's accurate and what isn't, and the knee jerk, fevered crap printed by those papers I've mentioned is rarely balanced enough to come to that decision.

111 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 12:51

okocha

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Newspapers' existence depends on making money. They know that sensation, celebrity and sleazy gossip sell successfully to a public that laps it up without much discrimination. On that basis, the highly successful Sun, Mirror and Mail will continue to print what the public seems to want, never letting the truth stand in the way of a good story.
 What saddens me is that the BBC is beginning to sensationalise too.

112 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 13:41

Guest


Guest
About time -

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/07/brexit-cps-considers-complaint-that-leave-campaigns-misled-voters

113 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 15:17

xmiles

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
bwfc1874 wrote:About time -

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/07/brexit-cps-considers-complaint-that-leave-campaigns-misled-voters

Unfortunately it won't change anything even if a successful prosecution is made and their fines will just be paid by some rich tax exile brexit fan.

114 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 15:22

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
If there is going to be CPS intervention every time a politician deliberately misleads the voters then the courts would be very full in no time.
It is a ridiculous statement, are they then going to analyse all the assertions from the remain campaigners for their truthfulness, that is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read and lets not forget that it will cost the tax payers millions while a group of lawyers, barristers will get very rich off it.

115 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 15:27

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
whatsgoingon wrote:If there is going to be CPS intervention every time a politician deliberately misleads the voters then the courts would be very full in no time.
It is a ridiculous statement, are they then going to analyse all the assertions from the remain campaigners for their truthfulness, that is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read and lets not forget that it will cost the tax payers millions while a group of lawyers, barristers will get very rich off it.


Do you ever contribute to the comments section on the Mail Online site?

I think you've nailed the tone and syntax perfectly there and, if you don't already post comments on that site, I'd suggest you hop on over there and weigh in with the rest of the "This is outrageous!!!" crowd pronto.

I think you'd like it.



Last edited by Bread2.0 on Mon Nov 07 2016, 15:28; edited 1 time in total

116 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 15:27

Guest


Guest
whatsgoingon wrote:If there is going to be CPS intervention every time a politician deliberately misleads the voters then the courts would be very full in no time.

Name a similar lie that was told in an election or referendum. 

I think I'll trust a Professor of electoral law over you.

117 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 15:28

Guest


Guest
xmiles wrote:
bwfc1874 wrote:About time -

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/07/brexit-cps-considers-complaint-that-leave-campaigns-misled-voters

Unfortunately it won't change anything even if a successful prosecution is made and their fines will just be paid by some rich tax exile brexit fan.

Ye you are right, I was still pleased to see it though.

118 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 15:33

xmiles

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
I was as sceptical as you WGO until I read the article. It is intended to test the 2006 Electoral Administration Act to see whether the brexit big lie about the £350m was knowingly misleading voters and thus constituting an offence of “undue influence”.

Personally I don't hold out much chance of success for pretty much the same reason as you.

119 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 15:39

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Bread2.0 wrote:
whatsgoingon wrote:If there is going to be CPS intervention every time a politician deliberately misleads the voters then the courts would be very full in no time.
It is a ridiculous statement, are they then going to analyse all the assertions from the remain campaigners for their truthfulness, that is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read and lets not forget that it will cost the tax payers millions while a group of lawyers, barristers will get very rich off it.


Do you ever contribute to the comments section on the Mail Online site?

I think you've nailed the tone and syntax perfectly there and, if you don't already post comments on that site, I'd suggest you hop on over there and weigh in with the rest of the "This is outrageous!!!" crowd pronto.

I think you'd like it.
And there goes bread the patronising prick again, this is a subject that clearly brings all the hate and self serving feelings that are harboured very close to the surface.
So all leave voters are crayon munching Jeremy Kyle watching morons and any Daily Mail readers are uneducated, it's just a shame the world isn't as perfect and open minded as you bread.

120 Re: Brexit - A new twist! on Mon Nov 07 2016, 15:47

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
You're good at dishing it but you really can't take it, can you?

Put your dummy back in and shut the fuck up, you big girl.

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