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Industrial Action

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1 Industrial Action on Wed Dec 14 2016, 16:27

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
With so many Brits feeling "left behind" in a society run by an elite that doesn't care for them (bless!) with everybody and their dog feeling hard done by and an increasingly inflationary economy that is already pushing up prices, is it inevitable that we are heading into years of industrial unrest just like the good old days? Wages are set to be frozen or capped as soon as we get out of the EU if May's Government have their way so it seems inevitable that there is going to be a response.

The train drivers were doing it today and now airline crew have just voted "overwhelmingly" to go on strike. Is this just a one-off or are we heading back to the '80s as I suspect we might be?

2 Re: Industrial Action on Wed Dec 14 2016, 16:33

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
A return to the 80's?

Well, given that you can now be openly racist, homophobic and misogynist with apparent impunity, I'd say it's 1973 already.

Especially seeing as it's looking like we're in with a good shout of securing promotion from Division 3.

Jimmy Armfield's Super White Army!

3 Re: Industrial Action on Wed Dec 14 2016, 17:01

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Wander, I think you're right. We're heading somewhere, and I don't think its going to be a nice place for many. I don't think the speculation by the press helps though. I saw an article, by the Telegraph, that had a heading of 'Prepare for petrol price shock'. Turns out that a full tank of petrol will cost a further £2.75 (that's for a 55 litre tank), in time for Christmas. Thats not even the cost of a coffee !

4 Re: Industrial Action on Thu Dec 15 2016, 09:51

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
gloswhite wrote:Wander, I think you're right. We're heading somewhere, and I don't think its going to be a nice place for many. I don't think the speculation by the press helps though. I saw an article, by the Telegraph, that had a heading of 'Prepare for petrol price shock'. Turns out that a full tank of petrol will cost a further £2.75 (that's for a 55 litre tank), in time for Christmas. Thats not even the cost of a coffee !
Tip of the iceberg IMO Glos.
I just think the conditions are heading towards being the same as they were back then - a lot of similarities - so if inflation kicks fully in over the next couple of years as it's likely to with the devaluation of the pound and the trade disruption of leaving the EU, I can imagine a lot of unrest and industrial action coming our way for the first time in decades - which is ironic seeing as we have never had it so good as recent times.

5 Re: Industrial Action on Thu Dec 15 2016, 11:33

Bollotom2014

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
You can, in most respects, have some sympathy for the "Workers." People see little or no increase in real terms in their salary. I am again going to get a 1% increase which on my payscale is about £400 per annum. Lots of the workforce are on minimum wage or zero hours contract. No overtime really as the seven day week has been created and it's normal to work unsocial hours, weekends, bank holidays without any pay enhancement. Yet the gobbmint are dead keen to get all these industrial relations problems sorted so that they can then give themselves a 10%+ payrise and extra time at the trough. People are disenchanted, and disenfranchised, by cost of living going up while monetary value plunges. More and more each day I can see the growing need for unions to protect workers rights. It's a merrygoround that is going to cause tears by bedtime. Even in the forces lots of my compadries are banging in for early release as salaries at NATS are superior to the forces. This is not just my branch but all branches in all three services. It won't be simply a winter of discontent, it'll be a disaster.

6 Re: Industrial Action on Thu Dec 15 2016, 11:57

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bollotom2014 wrote:You can, in most respects, have some sympathy for the "Workers." People see little or no increase in real terms in their salary. I am again going to get a 1% increase which on my payscale is about £400 per annum. Lots of the workforce are on minimum wage or zero hours contract. No overtime really as the seven day week has been created and it's normal to work unsocial hours, weekends, bank holidays without any pay enhancement. Yet the gobbmint are dead keen to get all these industrial relations problems sorted so that they can then give themselves a 10%+ payrise and extra time at the trough. People are disenchanted, and disenfranchised, by cost of living going up while monetary value plunges. More and more each day I can see the growing need for unions to protect workers rights. It's a merrygoround that is going to cause tears by bedtime. Even in the forces lots of my compadries are banging in for early release as salaries at NATS are superior to the forces. This is not just my branch but all branches in all three services. It won't be simply a winter of discontent, it'll be a disaster.
It's when wages stagnate against a backdrop of rising prices that it usually kicks off but the workers are not united or even mutually supportive as they once were, so some sector or other will be demonised in the media as soon as they act. The Gov need to be divisive in order to justify clamping down on industrial action as they did with the miners although I appreciate that the forces can't strike and will be perceived as being heroes regardless that pensions are higher than many sectors. I think that the same attitudes that were at force in the referendum will prevail as soon as industrial action kicks in. As mentioned elsewhere, I don't believe that people are as happy as they once were despite being much better off so everyone will have their noses out of joint and I feel that there's trouble ahead.

7 Re: Industrial Action on Thu Dec 15 2016, 12:47

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Are we better off now than we've ever been though?

I've got grown men in their 50's who work for me who earn £14,000 pa.

That's shocking.

I started out as a graduate trainee on £10,000 pa in 1991. That's 26 years ago.


When you break it down, it works out at £7.70 per hour which is actually 50p above minimum wage and therein lies another problem.

The idea of a minimum wage is great in principle because it stops people being exploited for three quid an hour but on the other hand, it's a convenient kop out for employers who want to pay the absolute minimum they can get away with for what is perceived as "non-skilled" work.

I don't give a shit what anybody says about job satisfaction and all that guff; we all get out of bed in the morning because somebody pays us to do so - end of.

But in all honesty, I wouldn't do what my team are expected to do for £14k a year.

If we're serious about "Making Britain Great Again" post Brexit, we need to look at what we pay people because any malcontent could be avoided simply by paying people a fair wage.

For a minimum / living wage to be worthwhile, it needs to be capable of delivering a decent standard of living and the current set-up doesn't.

8 Re: Industrial Action on Thu Dec 15 2016, 13:18

Norpig

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Jussi Jääskeläinen
Jussi Jääskeläinen
i work for the NHS and have forgotten what a pay rise is but i earn decent money (for washing bedpans) so can't complain too much.

We do have a lot of staff on low incomes in our department due to their low job banding and i do wonder how they cope but i suppose you have to cut your cloth accordingly.

The issue with minimum wage now is that its seen as jobs for immigrants and our lazy underclass will not be keen on fruit picking when Brexit finally happens

9 Re: Industrial Action on Thu Dec 15 2016, 16:51

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Norpig wrote:We do have a lot of staff on low incomes in our department due to their low job banding
What do they do dry them  Very Happy

10 Re: Industrial Action on Thu Dec 15 2016, 18:08

Norpig

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Jussi Jääskeläinen
Jussi Jääskeläinen
whatsgoingon wrote:
Norpig wrote:We do have a lot of staff on low incomes in our department due to their low job banding
What do they do dry them  Very Happy
 no they have pick out the solids by hand  Very Happy

11 Re: Industrial Action on Thu Dec 15 2016, 18:41

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Norpig wrote:
whatsgoingon wrote:
Norpig wrote:We do have a lot of staff on low incomes in our department due to their low job banding
What do they do dry them  Very Happy
 no they have pick out the solids by hand  Very Happy
Please delete this before Bonce finds a panda or Bruce related picture to match  Shocked

12 Re: Industrial Action on Thu Dec 15 2016, 21:13

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Bread2.0 wrote:
I've got grown men in their 50's who work for me who earn £14,000 pa.

But in all honesty, I wouldn't do what my team are expected to do for £14k a year.
Well pay them more then and prove you're a nice man after all!?!
Wait a minute, you'll be the middle man who kicks arse when the piper tells you?
So you all work for the same piper, but you're the one with no mates!! Smile

13 Re: Industrial Action on Fri Dec 16 2016, 07:48

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Soul Kitchen wrote:
Bread2.0 wrote:
I've got grown men in their 50's who work for me who earn £14,000 pa.

But in all honesty, I wouldn't do what my team are expected to do for £14k a year.
Well pay them more then and prove you're a nice man after all!?!
Wait a minute, you'll be the middle man who kicks arse when the piper tells you?
So you all work for the same piper, but you're the one with no mates!! Smile

Essentially, yes.

14 Re: Industrial Action on Fri Dec 16 2016, 08:54

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
It's no surprise that this situation has arisen due to the demise of the Unions and the influx of not only high skilled labour, medics, IT, etc. and low skilled labour who can earn more than at home and still send cash back to their families. 
The working man has always been his own worst enemy, and generally, is too dumb to realise it till its too late!
I recall a situation when I was in my early 20's when pay negotiations were due. At the office Christmas party the ale was flowing and the music playing. Needless to say when the union reps were suitably oiled they were taken into the boss' office and pay wise the deed was done!
It would seem, despite their senior years, they were too dumb and fell for such a simple ruse, and the majority swallowed it like sheep on the grassy  meadow!!



Last edited by Soul Kitchen on Fri Dec 16 2016, 09:19; edited 1 time in total

15 Re: Industrial Action on Fri Dec 16 2016, 09:04

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Soul Kitchen wrote:It's no surprise that this situation has arisen due to the demise of the Unions and the influx of not only high skilled labour, medics, IT, etc. and low skilled labour who can earn more than at home and still send cash back to their families. 
The working man has always been his own worst enemy, and generally, is too dumb to realise it till its too late!
I recall a situation when I was in my early 20's when pay negotiations were due. At the office Christmas party the ale was flowing and the music playing. Needless to say when the union reps were suitably oiled they were taken into the boss' office and pay wise the deed was done!
It would seem, despite their senior years, they were too dumb to fall for such a simple ruse, and the majority swallowed it like sheep on the grassy  meadow!!

Spot on.

Years ago I was a Rep for the BFAWU but it only lasted about 6 months because some of the stuff that I saw and heard genuinely turned my stomach.

We had a full-time official on site who spent all his time playing golf and drinking 10 year old single malt with the big boss.

Monthly branch meetings were a farce, as the guy in question acted more like an extension of the senior management team than an advocate of the workers' rights.

I attended Conference and (naively) was shocked and appalled that everybody there seemed to be more interested in enjoying their own importance and how clever they were than actually getting anything done.

I'm a Socialist. I always have been and I always will be but I've got very little time for those running (what's left) of our trade unions.

16 Re: Industrial Action on Fri Dec 16 2016, 09:41

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
At the end of the day everybody trys to improve their lot, and quite rightly so. I've often found that some folk become union reps because they're shit at their jobs and as such, use the position to improve their own standing. However they also take the willing sheep with them, as is required, to maintain their job.
As an example, I'm well aware of this with a former mayor and a MP!!

17 Re: Industrial Action on Fri Dec 16 2016, 10:05

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Unfortunately, the solidarity required to present a  united front to employers, and especially government, has been undermined by the influx of people who don't have a history of higher wages, and are happy to get by on lower wages, simply because that is what they are used to. The whole work and pay infrastructure is damaged, and there is no easy way back. As ever, everyone is blaming everyone else, and the only ones keeping quiet are the rich and mega rich. We all used to have a saying, 'Come the revolution', but in one form or another, I think its about to start.

18 Re: Industrial Action on Fri Dec 16 2016, 10:17

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Doubt it Glos.  At the end of the day people's arse holes will let them down. We are too staid in this country.

19 Re: Industrial Action on Fri Dec 16 2016, 10:53

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
SK, if something isn't sorted fairly soon, the whole country will go to ratshit, for so many reasons. I'll have to keep the wife working for longer than she thinks  Very Happy

20 Re: Industrial Action on Fri Dec 16 2016, 11:14

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
The country will go to rat shit!!
People's attitudes towards other people and other folk's property and privacy has long changed. You and I are both aware of that given our ages and unfortunately it's every man for himself in the jungle. 
As an adage your own personal morals have to take a hit on certain occasions in order to prevent agro and that is a stress in itself!

21 Re: Industrial Action on Fri Dec 16 2016, 11:20

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Soul Kitchen wrote:The country will go to rat shit!!
People's attitudes towards other people and other folk's property and privacy has long changed. You and I are both aware of that given our ages and unfortunately it's every man for himself in the jungle. 
As an adage your own personal morals have to take a hit on certain occasions in order to prevent agro and that is a stress in itself!

Am I allowed to blame Thatcher for all this again at this point?

She started this bollocks in the 80's with her "greed is good and fuck everybody else" policies and we're now paying the price.

22 Re: Industrial Action on Fri Dec 16 2016, 13:49

rammywhite

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El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Bread2.0 wrote:
Soul Kitchen wrote:The country will go to rat shit!!
People's attitudes towards other people and other folk's property and privacy has long changed. You and I are both aware of that given our ages and unfortunately it's every man for himself in the jungle. 
As an adage your own personal morals have to take a hit on certain occasions in order to prevent agro and that is a stress in itself!

Am I allowed to blame Thatcher for all this again at this point?

She started this bollocks in the 80's with her "greed is good and fuck everybody else" policies and we're now paying the price.

Are you bollocks.
It's not just in this country that social attitudes are changing. There are a whole host of environmental and societal factors contributing to changes in attitudes to most things. Thatcher is history- people who voted for her in her first pitch at being prime minister are now approaching their 50s and beyond. She's water under the bridge and you can't keep blaming her for everything that has gone wrong since.
Since her we've had two Labour PMs (Blair and Brown) and two Tory prime ministers  (Major and Cameron) and now another Tory who's still new to the job.
Most things have changed and not for the better. I'm no Thatcherite but there has been plenty of time and opportunity to get things righty again since her era.
But a series of weak governments have been  impotent in making any substantial changes to the attitudinal structures and mindsets that dominate Britain today.
 If you really want someone to blame- then blame Blair

23 Re: Industrial Action on Fri Dec 16 2016, 13:53

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
But Blair just copied her.

So if she hadn't started it all, Blair wouldn't have had anyone to copy.

So I'm still blaming her.

24 Re: Industrial Action on Fri Dec 16 2016, 14:01

rammywhite

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El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Bread2.0 wrote:But Blair just copied her.

So if she hadn't started it all, Blair wouldn't have had anyone to copy.

So I'm still blaming her.

He was supposed to be a politician with a new vision- remember New Labour!
He had the opportunity to reverse Thatcherite policy, but he didn't  His mate Brown was a disaster - you still can't blame Thatcher if the political elite can't come up with anybody who can stamp their authority and political thinking on the country . Blair had about 10 years to do so, and Brown had 4 years. That's 14 years to change things and all they did was fanny around at the edges.
Don't blame Thatcher for our problems. She resigned in 1990- that's 26 years for other PMs to get it right- and they haven't.

25 Re: Industrial Action on Fri Dec 16 2016, 14:21

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
What I was initially saying was, she made it socially acceptable (along with Rocket Ron in The States) to shaft the next guy if you thought you could make a quick buck.

And that created this culture of looking after number one with no regard for anybody else.

And it's that which is biting the (western) world on the arse now.

I know it's not all her fault, but I seriously think her desire to nick the Labour Party's core vote by convincing them that they were actually "aspirational Tories" who were entitled to more out of life and would get it if they voted Conservative has had a lasting effect on our society.

And it was quite a clever trick because it hamstrung any future Labour leaders (like the ones you mention) because they all now have to play the game and that's how we wound up with fucking Tory Lite New Labour and all that bollocks.

She was an evil genius and her legacy lives on.

26 Re: Industrial Action on Fri Dec 16 2016, 14:51

okocha

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
I tend to agree with Bread on this one. Selling off all the council houses was a complete disaster and partly set the tone for what has followed.

As for Blair, I'm glad that he instituted some civilising policies (don't mention the war!), such as the extensive regeneration of the cities, making fox-hunting illegal, and banning smoking in public places.

What a difference these have made.....or would have done if huntsmen had got off their high horses (!) and deigned to obey the law!

27 Re: Industrial Action on Fri Dec 16 2016, 17:18

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
okocha wrote:I tend to agree with Bread on this one. Selling off all the council houses was a complete disaster and partly set the tone for what has followed.

As for Blair, I'm glad that he instituted some civilising policies (don't mention the war!), such as the extensive regeneration of the cities, making fox-hunting illegal, and banning smoking in public places.

What a difference these have made.....or would have done if huntsmen had got off their high horses (!) and deigned to obey the law!
The biggest legacy of Thatcher was selling off our offshore gas and oil assets so that now we have to buy our own oil and gas back at inflated prices, finishing off our industries so we have to import more than we export and establishing the precedent of borrowing beyond our means to pay for it. She single-handedly turned a once proud manufacturing industrial nation into a service industry dependent on other countries.
And we'll pay for it forever more.

28 Re: Industrial Action on Sat Dec 17 2016, 09:29

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Bread2.0 wrote:
Soul Kitchen wrote:The country will go to rat shit!!
People's attitudes towards other people and other folk's property and privacy has long changed. You and I are both aware of that given our ages and unfortunately it's every man for himself in the jungle. 
As an adage your own personal morals have to take a hit on certain occasions in order to prevent agro and that is a stress in itself!

Am I allowed to blame Thatcher for all this again at this point?

She started this bollocks in the 80's with her "greed is good and fuck everybody else" policies and we're now paying the price.
Yes, Thatcher was the start of the selfish era in my lifetime! Some cnuts actually think she was good for them and the country. What folk forget is she got where she got on her back!!!

29 Re: Industrial Action on Sat Dec 17 2016, 12:58

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/17/baggage-handlers-down-suitcases-as-britons-get-ready-for-wave-of-strikes

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