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Trump v May

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91 Re: Trump v May on Fri May 12 2017, 11:36

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
It's starting.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/332991-fbi-raids-office-of-gop-consulting-firm-in-maryland

Anonymous sources within the US intelligence community are quietly suggesting that 3 Grand Juries have already been assembled and preliminary moves are being made behind the scenes.

Expect Paul Manafort to pop up, back from obscurity, soon and start spilling the beans on Russian money, Sessions, Flynn and Trump.

The word is that Mike Pence is also in it up to his neck, so we're looking at Orrin Hatch taking over the POTUS job once the fun finally starts.

Can't wait....

92 Re: Trump v May on Tue May 16 2017, 10:27

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

93 Re: Trump v May on Tue May 16 2017, 22:08

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Its strange really. On the one hand, Trump becomes President, and presents a strong and determined face, giving people hope after the hopeless and ineffective reign of Obama.
On the other hand, he completely cocks it up, making one mistake after another, and, lets be honest, reducing the office of President to something that has even less standing than Obama.
The likes of China and Russia were really unsure of what was going to happen, and were prepared to give way a bit, instead he comes across as a complete idiot. He'll have to make amends fairly soon, and come up with sensible policies, otherwise this could be one of the worst political eras in America's history.

94 Re: Trump v May on Wed May 17 2017, 09:07

okocha

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
gloswhite wrote:Its strange really. On the one hand, Trump becomes President, and presents a strong and determined face, giving people hope after the hopeless and ineffective reign of Obama.
Glos, can you explain to me how you view Obama's reign as "hopeless and ineffective?" 

His thwarted attempts to make the USA a more civilised place despite massive opposition from the neanderthals are evidently not to your taste 

 You're clearly not comparing him with Trump in terms of a role model with honour, decency and statesmanlike qualities. 


I'd also like to hear how you justify the adjectives "strong and determined" to describe Trump, rather than the words that more readily spring to mind that define him as a nasty, transparent, rather simple liar, a bully and an ego-maniac.


The Donald is not bright enough to avoid being caught out time and again over his multiple gaffes, and has to resort to assertions of "fake news" and "it did not happen".

95 Re: Trump v May on Wed May 17 2017, 10:44

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
okocha wrote:Glos, can you explain to me how you view Obama's reign as "hopeless and ineffective?" 

Obama was a good and decent man, but what did he actually achieve? Being nice doesn't necessarily make you a great leader.

I'm guessing if you were a poor person in the US rather than a middle class Brit you'd look back differently at the Obama years.

96 Re: Trump v May on Wed May 17 2017, 11:00

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Natasha Whittam wrote:
okocha wrote:Glos, can you explain to me how you view Obama's reign as "hopeless and ineffective?" 

Obama was a good and decent man, but what did he actually achieve? Being nice doesn't necessarily make you a great leader.

I'm guessing if you were a poor person in the US rather than a middle class Brit you'd look back differently at the Obama years.
Considering the Republican majority in the Senate, he achieved far more than could ever have been expected, Obamacare and the environmental policies for energy production he introduced being prime examples. I expected everything he proposed to be rejected by the Senate, but he did incredibly well to get the measures he did past them.

As to what makes a good leader...Trump is a ruthless businessman with media savvy and that sure as hell doesn't make him a good leader.

97 Re: Trump v May on Wed May 17 2017, 11:28

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
I believe Obama was an ineffective leader, especially when it came to foreign policy. He wouldn't say 'no', or stand up to, the arab, (or muslim, whatever) excesses that were accelerated during his time in office. It was only because of the American /threat/diplomacy that many possible conflicts in the area were being managed(ish). He also entered a dangerous treaty allowing a certain amount of nuclear freedom to Iran, and refused to commit his country to any kind of intervention in many sensitive topics or areas.. Due to his ineffective foreign policy thousands of people have died, all because the fanatics knew they could get away with their excesses as the American government stood back, (and allowing the Russians to step into the vacuum that was formed)
As a result of his Obamacare many average Americans are (were) paying more than was easily sustainable for their medical care than previously, (this was told to me by more than one American couple), and whilst they didn't mind paying more, what they were called to pay was excessive, and increasing all the time. it was too much, too soon, and is now about to collapse.
His dislike/disrespect towards the UK is reasonably well known(the Churchill bust incident rolled on for a while), and it would seen that his wife was, apart from a very arrogant woman, despite the media's support, quite the racist.
I don't know what life in the States is like, but I do have a few friends, of both political parties, who I stay in touch with, and when I read their comments, along with the media, I get the feeling that he wasn't very effective in the long term, and lets be honest, we haven't heard a lot about his presidency since he left, other than to changes that are in the pipeline, (not all that I agree with).
I never liked the man, and he did nothing to endear himself, as far as I am concerned.
As I stated previously, I didn't particularly want Trump to win, but I did want Clinton to lose, and though I didn't particularly like him, neither did I dislike him, (too much)

98 Re: Trump v May on Wed May 17 2017, 11:57

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
wanderlust wrote:As to what makes a good leader...

Ask my employees. But let them finish licking my boots first.

99 Re: Trump v May on Wed May 17 2017, 12:05

okocha

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Glos: thousands more die DUE to intervention in other countries. Surely we have learnt that much! 

As for Obamacare, you seem to be taking the word of one or two American couples! The principle is surely right.

I find your comments on Michelle absolutely staggering. We're obviously looking at two completely different ladies here!

100 Re: Trump v May on Wed May 17 2017, 13:11

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Glos I don't necessarily agree with Obama's foreign policy but I find your statement "Due to his ineffective foreign policy thousands of people have died, all because the fanatics knew they could get away with their excesses as the American government stood back, (and allowing the Russians to step into the vacuum that was formed)" fairly extraordinary. As okocha has already pointed out thousands die when America does intervene and we are still living with the consequences of the disastrous invasion of Iraq.

In what way have thousands died that American intervention would have prevented without causing even more thousands to die?

101 Re: Trump v May on Wed May 17 2017, 15:36

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Syria ?

102 Re: Trump v May on Wed May 17 2017, 15:43

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Okocha, I'm speaking about comments in the media as well as friends views.
I realise you are a great admirer of them, but I really don't feel they are as wonderful as you do, sorry. I'm not a tub-thumping racist, but couldn't help but notice the views of others, although I would admit to possibly noticing items in a negative manner, whereas you would possibly put a positive outlook on them. Such is life I'm afraid.

103 Re: Trump v May on Wed May 17 2017, 16:00

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
gloswhite wrote:Syria ?

Care to elaborate?

If the Americans had sent ground forces into Syria what would they achieve? The overthrow of Assad and his replacement by what? ISIS? And how many thousands would be killed or injured?

Iraq shows what happens when the Americans intervene.

104 Re: Trump v May on Wed May 17 2017, 16:12

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:Syria ?

Care to elaborate?

If the Americans had sent ground forces into Syria what would they achieve? The overthrow of Assad and his replacement by what? ISIS? And how many thousands would be killed or injured?

Iraq shows what happens when the Americans intervene.
So your view is not to intervene in anything?

I don't believe  sending in ground forces is the first option. His negotiating strategy was non-existent. He literally withdrew from all of it, and left an awful lot of people in the mire. Nobody knows how things would have developed had they remained in the various processes, however, we do know what happened when they sat on the fence.

105 Re: Trump v May on Wed May 17 2017, 16:22

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
My objection to intervening in Syria is that the argument for it was based on the assumption that overthrowing Assad was a good thing but there was no understanding of what would replace him. In many ways it was the same stupidity that led to the overthrow of Saddam in Iraq. He was an evil dictator but the average Iraqi was almost certainly better off under him than they are even now. There was zero Islamic fundamentalism and it was a comparatively secularised society.

Assad is bad but the realistic alternatives are all far far worse. The Americans wasted billions of dollars arming so called democratic forces only to find that all but five (!) individuals had handed their weapons to extremist groups and many had joined these groups themselves.

As for negotiating with ISIS good luck with that.

106 Re: Trump v May on Wed May 17 2017, 16:50

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
All fair points XM, but I still feel that Obama pulled out too soon, and abandoned many people to, at least, a miserable life, with far too many actually losing theirs. I also feel that ISIS would not have been as strong as they are, had they had a better organised opposition, and as I say they, along with the Russians, (for different reasons), must have been rubbing their hands in joy, when they realised what was happening.
You'll not change my view that he was a weak President, who through his deliberate inaction, allowed the area to spiral out of control, with suffering for millions. 
We now have a President, who, for a different set of reasons, may continue to stand back from the problem, preferring a relatively isolationist approach. (Although I wouldn't be surprised to see him impeached on one of many issues). Even so, I still regard the current, or even things to come, as a result of weak policies of Obama.

107 Re: Trump v May on Fri May 26 2017, 10:10

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

108 Re: Trump v May on Fri May 26 2017, 10:40

Bollotom2014

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
The way he, Trump, juts his jaw forward for the photoshoot and the 1,000 yard stare coupled with the World War 2 "Okay" sign with his hand. Thumb and forefinger circled and remaining fingers extended  is used in the US diving manual to indicate "I am okay" but also as a general gesture, and as we all know, Don veered round any chance he had to do military service. And now pops up as Commander in Chief of US forces.
Doubt they'll impeach him, though he may be advised to stand down. Then to replace him really is going to be a Gordian Knot. Be a slap in the face with a wet fish if McCain got the job.

109 Re: Trump v May on Fri May 26 2017, 11:16

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
It seems it's thankfully still not cool to suggest that we need to devise a "final solution" to deal with the "Muslim problem" after all...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40057165

Good. Fucking horrible bitch.

Also, in other Racist Fear Mongers Getting Sacked News, it appears that Hannity is trying to pass off his sudden disappearance from the airwaves at Fox as nothing more than his annual Memorial Day Weekend holiday starting early.

Very early....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40050203

Again....good.

Now then....if we could just do something about this other despicable wanker:

http://www.salon.com/2017/05/23/alex-jones-right-wing-media-wastes-no-time-politicizing-manchester-bombing/

110 Re: Trump v May on Fri May 26 2017, 11:59

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bread2.0 wrote:Now then....if we could just do something about this other despicable wanker:

http://www.salon.com/2017/05/23/alex-jones-right-wing-media-wastes-no-time-politicizing-manchester-bombing/

I clicked the link expecting a selfie.

111 Re: Trump v May on Fri May 26 2017, 12:00

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Knob... Very Happy

112 Re: Trump v May on Fri May 26 2017, 13:48

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Trump barging the Montenegran President out of the way hilarious - as was Macron's "handshake" with the Donut.

I was listening to a very astute young British Muslim on the radio yesterday who said that the primary and possibly only cause of radicalisation in the UK was British foreign policy and especially the invasions of Iraq and Afghanisatan and our role in Syria. I believe him.

Whether or not our aggressive actions were justified we'll never know (although personally I was against the wars and saw it as kowtowing to the Americans) however we all knew in advance what the likely consequences of our aggression would be.

The money we have wasted on wars and the human and financial cost of dealing with the fallout could have been better spent on services IMO.

113 Re: Trump v May on Fri May 26 2017, 14:09

Sluffy

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Admin
wanderlust wrote:I was listening to a very astute young British Muslim on the radio yesterday who said that the primary and possibly only cause of radicalisation in the UK was British foreign policy and especially the invasions of Iraq and Afghanisatan and our role in Syria. I believe him.

If that was true why has France suffered more than us from Muslim terrorists, and why the Madrid train bombing?

Hardly as though France and Spain have been major players in those countries unlike us.

Similarly Russia who - actually invaded Afghanistan and are a major player in Syria - have had no major terrorist incidents from Muslims apart from the Chechens who were seeking independence?

The bottom line is that one culture is religion based and wants to live in live in a world that adheres to their beliefs and the rest doesn't.

If people on both sides could be tolerant of each other then we could all live in peace - unfortunately there are extremists on both sides who don't want that.

114 Re: Trump v May on Fri May 26 2017, 14:12

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Sluffy wrote:
wanderlust wrote:I was listening to a very astute young British Muslim on the radio yesterday who said that the primary and possibly only cause of radicalisation in the UK was British foreign policy and especially the invasions of Iraq and Afghanisatan and our role in Syria. I believe him.

If that was true why has France suffered more than us from Muslim terrorists, and why the Madrid train bombing?

Hardly as though France and Spain have been major players in those countries unlike us.

Similarly Russia who - actually invaded Afghanistan and are a major player in Syria - have had no major terrorist incidents from Muslims apart from the Chechens who were seeking independence?

The bottom line is that one culture is religion based and wants to live in a world that adheres to their beliefs and the rest doesn't.

If people on both sides could be tolerant of each other then we could all live in peace - unfortunately there are extremists on both sides who don't want that.
I quite agree.

115 Re: Trump v May on Sat May 27 2017, 13:49

rammywhite

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El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

What's curious about this is that it represents much of the Trump clan. Melania (is that what she's called) looks like a brain dead bimbo, even the clothes she wears make her look like a robot. She's clearly under strict instructions to keep her gob shut
Ivanka is strange looking- her heads too small  and she too looks like a Stepford wife.. Her heads reminds me of a silverskin pickled onion.
Jared ( what sort of name is that? ) looks utterly corrupt. He looks at the camera saying: 'go on, prove I'm guilty'.
Despite the vast amounts that they clearly spend on clothes they look like they belong in a cheap clothing catalogue

Its good to see that nepotism isn't dead yet.

116 Re: Trump v May on Sat May 27 2017, 13:52

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
rammywhite wrote:Melania (is that what she's called) looks like a brain dead bimbo, even the clothes she wears make her look like a robot. She's clearly under strict instructions to keep her gob shut
Ivanka is strange looking- her heads too small  and she too looks like a Stepford wife.. Her heads reminds me of a silverskin pickled onion.
Jared ( what sort of name is that? ) looks utterly corrupt. He looks at the camera saying: 'go on, prove I'm guilty'.
Despite the vast amounts that they clearly spend on clothes they look like they belong in a cheap clothing catalogue


Listen to Mr Adonis!

Post a photo and I'll see if your head reminds me of a pumpkin.

117 Re: Trump v May on Tue May 30 2017, 12:37

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

118 Re: Trump v May on Tue May 30 2017, 13:18

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Sluffy wrote:
wanderlust wrote:I was listening to a very astute young British Muslim on the radio yesterday who said that the primary and possibly only cause of radicalisation in the UK was British foreign policy and especially the invasions of Iraq and Afghanisatan and our role in Syria. I believe him.

If that was true why has France suffered more than us from Muslim terrorists, and why the Madrid train bombing?

Dunno. If he'd been with me instead of being on the radio I'd have asked him.

119 Re: Trump v May on Tue May 30 2017, 13:23

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

120 Re: Trump v May on Tue May 30 2017, 22:07

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
wanderlust wrote:
Sluffy wrote:
wanderlust wrote:I was listening to a very astute young British Muslim on the radio yesterday who said that the primary and possibly only cause of radicalisation in the UK was British foreign policy and especially the invasions of Iraq and Afghanisatan and our role in Syria. I believe him.

If that was true why has France suffered more than us from Muslim terrorists, and why the Madrid train bombing?

Dunno. If he'd been with me instead of being on the radio I'd have asked him.
I heard a comment that most experts (whoever they are), subscribe to the view that our foreign policy has not helped us, but it isn't the absolute cause of the attacks.

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