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General Election - 8th June.

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151 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue May 09 2017, 12:47

y2johnny

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
boltonbonce wrote:
y2johnny wrote:Going to salford precinct shortly Smile
Used to love Eccles. Dad got all his gear here.
Haha  i think its still there that shop.

Corbyn on Salford Precinct though, thats why im going.  Might get my little girl to give him a banana Smile

http://Www.thefacefittester.co.uk

152 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue May 09 2017, 12:49

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
It's closed down now Johnny.

Get yourself on Granada Reports. Very Happy

153 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue May 09 2017, 13:16

y2johnny

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
boltonbonce wrote:It's closed down now Johnny.

Get yourself on Granada Reports. Very Happy
One way or another Very Happy

http://Www.thefacefittester.co.uk

154 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue May 09 2017, 13:25

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Laughing

155 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue May 09 2017, 13:34

rammywhite

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El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
wanderlust wrote:Corbyn launches Labour's manifesto with a string of straplines which I imagine will form the basis of policy including:
"Stronger rights at work"
"Safer communities"
"Fully funded NHS"
"A more peaceful world" 
"Public ownership of rail"
"Dignity in old age"
"Creating good jobs"
"Tackle child poverty"
"Ban zero hours contracts"

I am particularly struck by "a more peaceful world" which sounds like he's plagiarising a Miss World contestant. Which is weird coming from a party that endorses the renewal of Trident at a cost greater than the NHS budget.

Looking forward to seeing the meat on the bones i.e. how everything is paid for if Trident goes ahead.

Meanwhile Ian Lavery gives a commanding speech and shows his credentials to possibly be the next Labour leader.

Sounds great- but as for all general elections for all parties ,it always does sound great. Trouble is that none of it ever happens as events overtake rhetoric . Lets see just how much of a man of principle he actually is- because come June 9th, if he is a man of principle, he should be offering his resignation so that this country can start to build an effective opposition again.

156 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue May 09 2017, 13:44

Norpig

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Jussi Jääskeläinen
Jussi Jääskeläinen
As a lifelong Labour supporter i agree with most of what he is putting forward, it just won't make any difference as lifelong working class Labour voters have moved away from Labour as they are seen as too left wing now and too lenient of immigration during the Blair/Brown years.

I do think that when he loses the election he should stand down, he is not helping himself or the party when he says he will stay on.

One chap i'm friends with on facebook detests Labour with a passion, calling them traitors and champagne Socialists among many other things.

157 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue May 09 2017, 13:49

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

158 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue May 09 2017, 13:58

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Norpig wrote:As a lifelong Labour supporter i agree with most of what he is putting forward, it just won't make any difference as lifelong working class Labour voters have moved away from Labour as they are seen as too left wing now and too lenient of immigration during the Blair/Brown years.

I do think that when he loses the election he should stand down, he is not helping himself or the party when he says he will stay on.
What do you reckon about Lavery then? Or Keir Starmer? Both have more charisma in their little fingers than Jezza.

159 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue May 09 2017, 14:09

rammywhite

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El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
There's sufficient decent politicians in the Labour party to form a credible opposition ,but the trouble is that Jezza and his Momentum mates won't let them get near the front bench.
When I was a kid Abbot and Costello were a good comedy duo
But Abbot and Corbyn are even funnier- if it wasn't such a tragedy

160 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue May 09 2017, 14:10

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I know I keep banging on about this but it really pisses me off, so I'm having another go.

Social media is a fucking curse when it comes to forming public opinion regarding politics.

You could post a dry list of all the good stuff Labour are proposing but all it takes is one (allegedly) hilarious gif about Corbyn being a scruffy tramp who hasn't got a clue what he's doing to be circulated and go viral via Faceytime or Twatter and suddenly, everybody's an expert on why Labour are un-electable and that's that - Whallop! 5 more years of the fucking horrible Tories.

What's that saying again? "A lie can be half way around the world before the truth's finished lacing up its boots."

Dead fucking right.

There are still plenty of people in America posting stuff about Obama being a Nigerian Muslim who was spirited into the White House (along with his transsexual wife) by ISIS to take their guns away.

It's all bollocks and we're doing ourselves no favours as a species by falling for it.

161 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue May 09 2017, 14:14

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Norpig wrote:As a lifelong Labour supporter i agree with most of what he is putting forward

If there was a party that would sort out the NHS, even if it meant more taxes, I would vote for it. The NHS is something that we all have an interest in because we never know when we might need it.

But successive governments have failed to improve things, and in the unlikely situation that Labour got in again it would be more of the same.

Someone needs to be brave and stop the NHS being free for conditions brought on by stupidity. If you insist on going rock climbing then you should fooking well pay for your treatment. But it will never happen because politicians care more about perceived image than actually doing what is best for the country.

162 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue May 09 2017, 14:15

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bread2.0 wrote:I know I keep banging on about this but it really pisses me off, so I'm having another go.

Social media is a fucking curse when it comes to forming public opinion regarding politics.

You could post a dry list of all the good stuff Labour are proposing but all it takes is one (allegedly) hilarious gif about Corbyn being a scruffy tramp who hasn't got a clue what he's doing to be circulated and go viral via Faceytime or Twatter and suddenly, everybody's an expert on why Labour are un-electable and that's that - Whallop! 5 more years of the fucking horrible Tories.

What's that saying again? "A lie can be half way around the world before the truth's finished lacing up its boots."

Dead fucking right.

There are still plenty of people in America posting stuff about Obama being a Nigerian Muslim who was spirited into the White House (along with his transsexual wife) by ISIS to take their guns away.

It's all bollocks and we're doing ourselves no favours as a species by falling for it.

Translation: Bread is always right and everyone else is thick as fuck.

163 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue May 09 2017, 15:07

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Michael Foot got the same treatment. His crime? Wearing a so called 'donkey jacket' at the Cenotaph.

164 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue May 09 2017, 15:54

Norpig

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Jussi Jääskeläinen
Jussi Jääskeläinen
Natasha Whittam wrote:
Norpig wrote:As a lifelong Labour supporter i agree with most of what he is putting forward

If there was a party that would sort out the NHS, even if it meant more taxes, I would vote for it. The NHS is something that we all have an interest in because we never know when we might need it.

But successive governments have failed to improve things, and in the unlikely situation that Labour got in again it would be more of the same.

Someone needs to be brave and stop the NHS being free for conditions brought on by stupidity. If you insist on going rock climbing then you should fooking well pay for your treatment. But it will never happen because politicians care more about perceived image than actually doing what is best for the country.
There is such a party, say hello to the Lib Dems  Very Happy

165 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue May 09 2017, 16:00

Norpig

avatar
Jussi Jääskeläinen
Jussi Jääskeläinen
wanderlust wrote:
Norpig wrote:As a lifelong Labour supporter i agree with most of what he is putting forward, it just won't make any difference as lifelong working class Labour voters have moved away from Labour as they are seen as too left wing now and too lenient of immigration during the Blair/Brown years.

I do think that when he loses the election he should stand down, he is not helping himself or the party when he says he will stay on.
What do you reckon about Lavery then? Or Keir Starmer? Both have more charisma in their little fingers than Jezza.
Not aware of Lavery to be honest Lusty but i have seen Starmer and he doesn't convince me either. He seems a bit preachy over Brexit from what i've seen of him and that will wind up a lot of people.
I genuinely can't think who i would want to take over which is a sad indictment of the current Labour Party

166 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue May 09 2017, 16:05

y2johnny

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker

http://Www.thefacefittester.co.uk

167 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue May 09 2017, 16:25

xmiles

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
y2johnny wrote:

:dontgetit:

How much credibility does anyone have if they believe in spending billions on Trident but promise to never use it?

168 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed May 10 2017, 12:40

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:
y2johnny wrote:

:dontgetit:

How much credibility does anyone have if they believe in spending billions on Trident but promise to never use it?
How much credibility do the Tories have when May makes energy price capping a central election pledge when only two years ago, Miliband proposed exactly the same policy and was told by David Cameron that it showed "he wanted to live in a Marxist universe"?

Double standards - and policy plagiarism - or what?

169 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed May 10 2017, 14:23

luckyPeterpiper

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
I'm sorry to say it's by and large pointless to think Labour have a snowball's chance in Hell of winning the Election. In fact I think we'll lose even more seats, mostly to the Lib Dems who have nowhere to go but up and the Tories will finish with a majority of at least fifty.

Sadly the people of all too many western democracies have lurched dramatically to the right in the last decade or so. One only needs to look at the Brexit campaign and Donald Trump's election to know this. The hot button issue amongst way too many voters is immigration and blaming it for all the ills of the world. Throw in the fear of so-called Islamic State where every moslem is now being viewed as a terrorist sympathiser or a terrorist in fact and it's easy to see why the far right is gaining ground rapidly and gaining control over more and more supposedly moderate conservative parties. Then factor in Rupert Murdoch's massive media campaign that sells fear and ignorance.

170 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed May 10 2017, 16:06

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
luckyPeterpiper wrote:I'm sorry to say it's by and large pointless to think Labour have a snowball's chance in Hell of winning the Election. In fact I think we'll lose even more seats, mostly to the Lib Dems who have nowhere to go but up and the Tories will finish with a majority of at least fifty.

Sadly the people of all too many western democracies have lurched dramatically to the right in the last decade or so. One only needs to look at the Brexit campaign and Donald Trump's election to know this. The hot button issue amongst way too many voters is immigration and blaming it for all the ills of the world. Throw in the fear of so-called Islamic State where every moslem is now being viewed as a terrorist sympathiser or a terrorist in fact and it's easy to see why the far right is gaining ground rapidly and gaining control over more and more supposedly moderate conservative parties. Then factor in Rupert Murdoch's massive media campaign that sells fear and ignorance.
I don't think anyone imagines Labour will win but given that May has stated she is holding the election in order to gain a bigger majority there is still a scenario whereby the Tories could have their confidence tested.
Whilst existing Tory seats are likely to remain Tory, if the Lib Dems, Labour and the Greens pick up a few seats from UKIP and the SNP it may still turn out that the Tories get no or very little increase in majority as they expect.
How will May look then, asking for a mandate to push through a hard Brexit and not getting it?
You are right about the general swing to the right, but that was last year and already there are signs that the joke is starting to wear a bit thin and if the opposition parties can get people focussed on the Tories actual record rather than the veiled threats and undeliverable promises on which they have based their recent success they might get a shock earlier than they think. Although nobody really expects them to get thrown out until the enormity of Brexit kicks in in say a couple of years' time. 
The timing of this election is to ensure that the people won't be able to vote on their performance until it's too late.

171 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed May 10 2017, 16:17

Sluffy

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Admin
wanderlust wrote:
luckyPeterpiper wrote:I'm sorry to say it's by and large pointless to think Labour have a snowball's chance in Hell of winning the Election. In fact I think we'll lose even more seats, mostly to the Lib Dems who have nowhere to go but up and the Tories will finish with a majority of at least fifty.

Sadly the people of all too many western democracies have lurched dramatically to the right in the last decade or so. One only needs to look at the Brexit campaign and Donald Trump's election to know this. The hot button issue amongst way too many voters is immigration and blaming it for all the ills of the world. Throw in the fear of so-called Islamic State where every moslem is now being viewed as a terrorist sympathiser or a terrorist in fact and it's easy to see why the far right is gaining ground rapidly and gaining control over more and more supposedly moderate conservative parties. Then factor in Rupert Murdoch's massive media campaign that sells fear and ignorance.
I don't think anyone imagines Labour will win but given that May has stated she is holding the election in order to gain a bigger majority there is still a scenario whereby the Tories could have their confidence tested.
Whilst existing Tory seats are likely to remain Tory, if the Lib Dems, Labour and the Greens pick up a few seats from UKIP and the SNP it may still turn out that the Tories get no or very little increase in majority as they expect.
How will May look then, asking for a mandate to push through a hard Brexit and not getting it?
You are right about the general swing to the right, but that was last year and already there are signs that the joke is starting to wear a bit thin and if the opposition parties can get people focussed on the Tories actual record rather than the veiled threats and undeliverable promises on which they have based their recent success they might get a shock earlier than they think. Although nobody really expects them to get thrown out until the enormity of Brexit kicks in in say a couple of years' time. 
The timing of this election is to ensure that the people won't be able to vote on their performance until it's too late.

UKIP don't have any seats to lose!

Rolling Eyes

Also there are approximately 70 Labour seats who have a majority smaller than the UKIP vote at the last election.


I suggest you don't let your prejudice blind you to the facts.

172 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed May 10 2017, 20:27

Chairmanda

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Natasha Whittam wrote:
Norpig wrote:As a lifelong Labour supporter i agree with most of what he is putting forward

If there was a party that would sort out the NHS, even if it meant more taxes, I would vote for it. The NHS is something that we all have an interest in because we never know when we might need it.

But successive governments have failed to improve things, and in the unlikely situation that Labour got in again it would be more of the same.

Someone needs to be brave and stop the NHS being free for conditions brought on by stupidity. If you insist on going rock climbing then you should fooking well pay for your treatment. But it will never happen because politicians care more about perceived image than actually doing what is best for the country.
welcome to the LibDems Nat...that's our headline policy

173 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed May 10 2017, 20:39

luckyPeterpiper

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Chairmanda wrote:
Natasha Whittam wrote:
Norpig wrote:As a lifelong Labour supporter i agree with most of what he is putting forward

If there was a party that would sort out the NHS, even if it meant more taxes, I would vote for it. The NHS is something that we all have an interest in because we never know when we might need it.

But successive governments have failed to improve things, and in the unlikely situation that Labour got in again it would be more of the same.

Someone needs to be brave and stop the NHS being free for conditions brought on by stupidity. If you insist on going rock climbing then you should fooking well pay for your treatment. But it will never happen because politicians care more about perceived image than actually doing what is best for the country.
welcome to the LibDems Nat...that's our headline policy
Amanda I hate to say this but the Lib Dem's credibility is gone with the vast majority of ordinary voters after Clegg jumped in bed with Cameron. They've got no chance of even catching Labour let alone the Tories and no one will ever trust them as a party of government again, not even as part of a coalition. I don't wish them ill, in fact I agree with many of their espoused policies but the way Clegg and his cohorts abandoned those principles, not least tuition fees for a frankly useless seat at the cabinet table killed them in the eyes of many centrists and moderates.

174 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed May 10 2017, 22:05

Sluffy

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Admin
luckyPeterpiper wrote:Amanda I hate to say this but the Lib Dem's credibility is gone with the vast majority of ordinary voters after Clegg jumped in bed with Cameron. They've got no chance of even catching Labour let alone the Tories and no one will ever trust them as a party of government again, not even as part of a coalition. I don't wish them ill, in fact I agree with many of their espoused policies but the way Clegg and his cohorts abandoned those principles, not least tuition fees for a frankly useless seat at the cabinet table killed them in the eyes of many centrists and moderates.

I would think the Lib Dems will revert back to being the party for the protest vote as it now seems likely UKIP will fade and die away quite quickly because they achieved Brexit - they don't have any other reason for being.

I do wonder though if some new party springs up after the elections - Macron only created his party a couple of years ago and he's now the President of France.

Maybe one exactly opposite to UKIP with the single aim to get us back IN the EU.

If so there's two off here who would no doubt jump on board with them!



175 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed May 10 2017, 22:09

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Sluffy wrote:If so there's two off here who would no doubt jump on board with them!


The Armchair Party.

176 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed May 10 2017, 22:17

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I've got an MA in Politics and the other fella was a regular at the CBI during a distinguished business career, so I think we're not completely clueless about this shit.

We don't sell mobile phones in a high street shop or organise the local council's bin collection schedule for a living.

177 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed May 10 2017, 22:18

luckyPeterpiper

avatar
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
I wish Brexit had failed but would never join any single issue party regardless of what they might want. In truth I'd like to see a Labour Government, one that's made up of the moderates rather than the far left but while I think Corbyn is far more moderate than some papers and forums would have us believe I do think he and some of his advisors are stuck in the past as are the Tories in many ways.

This country is changing, it always has and always will be that way and parties who hark back to the 'good old days' are selling an illusion of a time that never happened in a country that never existed outside Ealing Studios.

Britain is now a multi-cultural, multi-creed country and that diversity should be seen as a great strength, it's going to keep on in that direction anyway so we can either embrace and make the most of the opportunities it provides or we can keep doing a 'Farage' and pretending we can go backwards.

178 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Thu May 11 2017, 08:42

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bread2.0 wrote:I've got an MA in Politics and the other fella was a regular at the CBI during a distinguished business career, so I think we're not completely clueless about this shit.

We don't sell mobile phones in a high street shop or organise the local council's bin collection schedule for a living.

So you do think you're better than everyone else?

179 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Thu May 11 2017, 09:09

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Natasha Whittam wrote:
Bread2.0 wrote:I've got an MA in Politics and the other fella was a regular at the CBI during a distinguished business career, so I think we're not completely clueless about this shit.

We don't sell mobile phones in a high street shop or organise the local council's bin collection schedule for a living.

So you do think you're better than everyone else?
Has he not said " no - just you" yet?

As regards the Lib Dems, they were shafted by the Tories last time out so perhaps there is mileage in a Lib/Lab pact once again? In itself, that wouldn't be enough to overturn the overall majority but if you throw in the Tory "hard Brexit" dissenters and the SNP it might be enough to put the handbrake on May before she completely f**** up our trade deals. We'll see how it pans out after the election.

180 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Thu May 11 2017, 09:23

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Chairmanda wrote:
Natasha Whittam wrote:
Norpig wrote:As a lifelong Labour supporter i agree with most of what he is putting forward

If there was a party that would sort out the NHS, even if it meant more taxes, I would vote for it. The NHS is something that we all have an interest in because we never know when we might need it.

But successive governments have failed to improve things, and in the unlikely situation that Labour got in again it would be more of the same.

Someone needs to be brave and stop the NHS being free for conditions brought on by stupidity. If you insist on going rock climbing then you should fooking well pay for your treatment. But it will never happen because politicians care more about perceived image than actually doing what is best for the country.
welcome to the LibDems Nat...that's our headline policy
I have a question Manda.
If the Libddems Trident policy is to maintain a nuclear capability but reducing CASD and having 3 subs instead of four, how much money would that save?
Given that the cost of Trident renewal as proposed by the Tories runs into tens of billions (plus running the Successor class and decommissioning of the Vanguards) couldn't that money be used to fund the NHS? And would enough be saved?

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