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General Election - 8th June.

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31 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue Apr 18 2017, 18:46

Chairmanda

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Bread2.0 wrote:Unless I'm being really, really thick (go on, Whittam - Have at it!), given that she needs a 2/3 majority of support in parliament even to get the election ratified, why on earth isn't Jezza simply getting his 3 line whip out and blocking it?

Surely to god he can't think that there are substantial gains to be made in 5 weeks?

It'll be a disaster for Labour and, as Lusty's already said, it'll cement May and the Tories' position and make them even more powerful.

What am I missing?
It's a hard one! If you are meant to be the official opposition, and are meant to be holding the government to account and disagree with their agenda, it's quite hard to be offered the chance to stand against the incumbents and turn it down. It's kind of admitting you are unprepared and don't think you can win...

32 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue Apr 18 2017, 18:56

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Chairmanda wrote:
Bread2.0 wrote:Unless I'm being really, really thick (go on, Whittam - Have at it!), given that she needs a 2/3 majority of support in parliament even to get the election ratified, why on earth isn't Jezza simply getting his 3 line whip out and blocking it?

Surely to god he can't think that there are substantial gains to be made in 5 weeks?

It'll be a disaster for Labour and, as Lusty's already said, it'll cement May and the Tories' position and make them even more powerful.

What am I missing?
It's a hard one! If you are meant to be the official opposition, and are meant to be holding the government to account and disagree with their agenda, it's quite hard to be offered the chance to stand against the incumbents and turn it down. It's kind of admitting you are unprepared and don't think you can win...

It's not exactly a secret that Labour are unprepared and don't think they can win, so logically Corbyn should have refused to go along with May's u turn on holding an immediate election.

33 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue Apr 18 2017, 19:13

okocha

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Come on, guys.....we've got much more important things to worry about this evening!

34 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue Apr 18 2017, 23:09

Chairmanda

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
okocha wrote:Come on, guys.....we've got much more important things to worry about this evening!
It's been a worry filled day all round!

35 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Tue Apr 18 2017, 23:53

Soul Kitchen

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
xmiles wrote:
Bread2.0 wrote:Unless I'm being really, really thick (go on, Whittam - Have at it!), given that she needs a 2/3 majority of support in parliament even to get the election ratified, why on earth isn't Jezza simply getting his 3 line whip out and blocking it?

Surely to god he can't think that there are substantial gains to be made in 5 weeks?

It'll be a disaster for Labour and, as Lusty's already said, it'll cement May and the Tories' position and make them even more powerful.

What am I missing?

The fact that Corbyn is an idiot.
Corbyn is a deluded old twat and won't resign when Labour get battered! He'll tuck his shirt in his Grundys and say "better luck next time!"

36 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed Apr 19 2017, 10:39

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Chairmanda wrote:
okocha wrote:Come on, guys.....we've got much more important things to worry about this evening!
It's been a worry filled day all round!

Not sure what you're worried about Manda. The way this is going, May has just handed the LibDems a lifeline which will substantially increase your parliamentary representation and maybe even position the LibDems as the main opposition party ahead of Labour - providing the PR and marketing is good enough to push the requisite buttons.

Not sure that focussing entirely on being the only party to vote for if you want a soft Brexit is the best way to go as it's polarising and emotive, but breaking that down into policy-related specifics could be a winner. Talk NHS and public services, employment, education and specifics that affect people's lives rather than "macros" like Brexit and the economy and you'll do well.

Might also be worthwhile listening to the Greens who are currently campaigning to stop the renewal of Trident - over £200 BILLION - at a time when the rest of the world (not UK!) is discussing nuclear disarmament. It's not just the hypocrisy of saying to North Korea stop weapons testing when we're about to spend more than DOUBLE the NHS budget with our conservative backers in the arms industry, it's the fact that we are doing this when the NHS and social care services are being slashed.

37 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed Apr 19 2017, 10:59

Chairmanda

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Well said wanders. The logistics and organisation of running a professional and successful GE campaign with a largely voluntary organisation, are challenging. Yesterday, in the immediate aftermath of the announcement, think I was more focussed on solving the problems, not the opportunities. Bring it on.

38 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed Apr 19 2017, 11:01

RustyNail


Mario Jardel
Mario Jardel
Now that the letter has been delivered is it still possible to reverse the Brexit decision?

If so an obvious ploy for the opposition parties would be to pledge to reverse the decision. There is a big 48% of voters up for grabs and i think people would feel strongly enough on this issue to switch party allegiance. Maybe the reverse is not possible at this point though?

39 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed Apr 19 2017, 11:37

okocha

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
wanderlust wrote:
Chairmanda wrote:
okocha wrote:Come on, guys.....we've got much more important things to worry about this evening!
It's been a worry filled day all round!

Not sure what you're worried about Manda. The way this is going, May has just handed the LibDems a lifeline which will substantially increase your parliamentary representation and maybe even position the LibDems as the main opposition party ahead of Labour - providing the PR and marketing is good enough to push the requisite buttons.

Not sure that focussing entirely on being the only party to vote for if you want a soft Brexit is the best way to go as it's polarising and emotive, but breaking that down into policy-related specifics could be a winner. Talk NHS and public services, employment, education and specifics that affect people's lives rather than "macros" like Brexit and the economy and you'll do well.

Might also be worthwhile listening to the Greens who are currently campaigning to stop the renewal of Trident - over £200 BILLION - at a time when the rest of the world (not UK!) is discussing nuclear disarmament. It's not just the hypocrisy of saying to North Korea stop weapons testing when we're about to spend more than DOUBLE the NHS budget with our conservative backers in the arms industry, it's the fact that we are doing this when the NHS and social care services are being slashed.
I agree with all of that, Lusty. Suspend Trident renewal, stop HS2 and we suddenly have all the money we need to protect services, do away with all the cuts and stop the Tories picking on the disadvantaged and poor.

BTW: I liked this little poem from Pam Ayres about the snap election:

The shock wave passed; the dust is clearing,
Seven weeks electioneering
Rhetoric, hot air and gas,
I'm on my way to Dignitas

40 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed Apr 19 2017, 11:37

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
wanderlust wrote:
Chairmanda wrote:
okocha wrote:Come on, guys.....we've got much more important things to worry about this evening!
It's been a worry filled day all round!

Not sure what you're worried about Manda. The way this is going, May has just handed the LibDems a lifeline which will substantially increase your parliamentary representation and maybe even position the LibDems as the main opposition party ahead of Labour - providing the PR and marketing is good enough to push the requisite buttons.

Not sure that focussing entirely on being the only party to vote for if you want a soft Brexit is the best way to go as it's polarising and emotive, but breaking that down into policy-related specifics could be a winner. Talk NHS and public services, employment, education and specifics that affect people's lives rather than "macros" like Brexit and the economy and you'll do well.

Might also be worthwhile listening to the Greens who are currently campaigning to stop the renewal of Trident - over £200 BILLION - at a time when the rest of the world (not UK!) is discussing nuclear disarmament. It's not just the hypocrisy of saying to North Korea stop weapons testing when we're about to spend more than DOUBLE the NHS budget with our conservative backers in the arms industry, it's the fact that we are doing this when the NHS and social care services are being slashed.

I agree. One can only hope that the election will be about these topics but given the combination of Corbyn's inability to provide a credible lead and the right wing press hysteria about brexit (eg the Daily Mail headline today - Crush the Saboteurs) I am not optimistic.

41 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed Apr 19 2017, 13:19

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
May is currently facing MPs and there is little doubt that she's still trying to ride the referendum wave by making this election about Brexit.
In essence she's implying that anyone who doesn't vote Toerag is being unpatriotic.

I do hope that the other parties don't take the bait and focus on what Britain will look like after we leave the EU instead of the process.

Sadly I don't think the eurosceptics can see past that oversimplified argument so all the social issues that need to be addressed will be sidelined, even though the Leave demographic shows that they are the ones most likely to be affected.

Dennis Skinner's request that the Tory MPs still under investigation for fiddling election expenses at the last election be deselected is amusing as that would wipe out half of the Tory party, but at least we wouldn't be governed by cheating liars for a while.

42 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed Apr 19 2017, 14:44

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Just in case anyone cares:

http://e.infogr.am/stop_the_tories-0?src=embed

43 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed Apr 19 2017, 15:20

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:Just in case anyone cares:

http://e.infogr.am/stop_the_tories-0?src=embed
Not a lot of Norfolk on that list  Very Happy

44 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed Apr 19 2017, 15:32

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:Just in case anyone cares:

http://e.infogr.am/stop_the_tories-0?src=embed

I'm not looking forward to several weeks of xmiles anti-Tory crap. Please can someone ban him.

45 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed Apr 19 2017, 15:53

Norpig

avatar
Jussi Jääskeläinen
Jussi Jääskeläinen
you could say May is the secret lovechild of Jimmy Saville and Margaret Thatcher and she would still romp home in front of Jezza i'm afraid.

46 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed Apr 19 2017, 17:04

Hipster_Nebula

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I will be voting Conservative for the first time.

47 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed Apr 19 2017, 17:08

Cajunboy

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Natasha Whittam wrote:
xmiles wrote:Just in case anyone cares:

http://e.infogr.am/stop_the_tories-0?src=embed

I'm not looking forward to several weeks of xmiles anti-Tory crap. Please can someone ban him.

48 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed Apr 19 2017, 17:32

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Hipster_Nebula wrote:I will be voting Conservative for the first time.

Why?

49 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Wed Apr 19 2017, 17:51

Hipster_Nebula

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:
Hipster_Nebula wrote:I will be voting Conservative for the first time.

Why?

Because the SNP have lied to the people of Scotland and followed Labour down the pits of sanctimonious holier than thou socialist grievance culture protest party CRAP. 

at this point the Conservatives are the only party with any interest in hard working British people.

50 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Thu Apr 20 2017, 11:24

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Hipster_Nebula wrote:
xmiles wrote:
Hipster_Nebula wrote:I will be voting Conservative for the first time.

Why?

Because the SNP have lied to the people of Scotland and followed Labour down the pits of sanctimonious holier than thou socialist grievance culture protest party CRAP. 

at this point the Conservatives are the only party with any interest in hard working British people.
The SNP are saying the election is about Scottish independence and they'll be fighting it on the basis of earning the right to have another referendum.

The Tories are saying the election is about having a mandate to negotiate a hard Brexit.

Everybody else is saying that the Brexit issue is just a decoy to take attention away from the Government's piss poor performance and undelivered promises from the last election.

What are Scottish voters actually going to be voting on?

For that matter, what are English voters actually going to be voting on?

Seems to me nobody can agree what the issues are so I guess it will be left up to the media to tell us again.

51 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Thu Apr 20 2017, 14:51

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Corbyn makes sensible speech shock:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39649119

52 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Thu Apr 20 2017, 15:10

Norpig

avatar
Jussi Jääskeläinen
Jussi Jääskeläinen

at this point the Conservatives are the only party with any interest in hard working British people.
 Seriously?  affraid

53 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Thu Apr 20 2017, 15:18

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
wanderlust wrote:Everybody else is saying that the Brexit issue is just a decoy to take attention away from the Government's piss poor performance

That's just a ridiculous comment, absolutely mental.

The ship is steady. Not perfect by any means, and could be a lot better. But steady.

The simple fact is that small minded people like yourself will only vote for one party, regardless of the facts.

54 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Thu Apr 20 2017, 15:39

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Natasha Whittam wrote:
wanderlust wrote:Everybody else is saying that the Brexit issue is just a decoy to take attention away from the Government's piss poor performance

That's just a ridiculous comment, absolutely mental.

The ship is steady. Not perfect by any means, and could be a lot better. But steady.

The simple fact is that small minded people like yourself will only vote for one party, regardless of the facts.
They're doing well if we ignore the NHS crisis, the education crisis, 4 million British children living in poverty for the first time ever, the deterioration of international relations, the undercutting of worker's rights, prices rising faster than wages, cutbacks in public services, the deterioration of the national infrastructure, the housing crisis, the rocketing national debt......

Hang on.....they're actually shit Shocked 

They just don't want anyone to actually look at the current problems or their own piss poor performance.

And I've not decided which party I'm going to vote for because I haven't heard the arguments yet. Unlike you who seems to have decided without listening to anyone.

55 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Thu Apr 20 2017, 15:51

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
wanderlust wrote:
They're doing well if we ignore the NHS crisis, the education crisis, 4 million British children living in poverty for the first time ever, the deterioration of international relations, the undercutting of worker's rights, prices rising faster than wages, cutbacks in public services, the deterioration of the national infrastructure, the housing crisis, the rocketing national debt......

Virtually all those have been in crisis my whole lifetime, and you know it.

And all of them were prevalent under the last Labour government.

56 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Thu Apr 20 2017, 15:53

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Ah...it's all the last Labour government's fault......I see.

Fuck off.

The Tories have been in charge for 7 years.

Are we currently unable to score goals because of Owen Coyle and his ping pong fascination?

57 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Thu Apr 20 2017, 16:00

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Natasha Whittam wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
They're doing well if we ignore the NHS crisis, the education crisis, 4 million British children living in poverty for the first time ever, the deterioration of international relations, the undercutting of worker's rights, prices rising faster than wages, cutbacks in public services, the deterioration of the national infrastructure, the housing crisis, the rocketing national debt......

Virtually all those have been in crisis my whole lifetime, and you know it.

And all of them were prevalent under the last Labour government.
Bullshit. None of them were this bad under Labour - and they were shit, so it just goes to show how appalling the current Government is doing.
You've obviously fallen for the decoy.

58 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Thu Apr 20 2017, 16:05

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
This is what they were elected on.
Exactly how much of it been achieved?


  • Cut working-age social security spending by £12bn.

• Cap overall welfare spending over the course of the next parliament.
• Freeze the value of working age benefits for two years from April 2016.
• Deliver the universal credit reform of most existing welfare benefits.
• Lower the household benefits cap from £26,000 to £23,000.
• Reduce benefits for drug-addicted or obese claimants who refuse medical treatment to enable them to return to work.
• Return-to-work support for unemployment benefit claimants who are mentally ill.
Require children who fail primary school assessments to retake in secondary school.


  • Open 500 new free schools over the next parliament.
  • Maintain per pupil funding for four- to 16-year-olds in state schools.
  • Keep the pupil premium for disadvantaged children at current levels.
  • Train an extra 17,500 maths and physics teachers over the next five years.
  • Turn “failing and coasting” state secondary schools into academies.
  • Schools classed as “requiring improvement” by Ofsted to have new head teachers.
  • Remove cap on undergraduate numbers for university student recruitment.
  • Introduce a postgraduate loan scheme for masters and PhD students.
  • New measures to tackle abuse of student visa system.
  • Maintain the size of the regular armed services and not reduce the army to below 82,000; retain the Trident continuous at-sea nuclear deterrent.
  • In response to the controversy over government surveillance, it promises: “We will keep up to date the ability of the police and security services to access communications data – the ‘who, where, when and how’ of a communication, but not its content.”
  • Short, sharp jail spell for prolific offenders.
  • Scrap the Human Rights Act.
  • Migrants to wait four years before they can claim certain benefits or social housing.
  • “Ambition” to reduce net migration.
  •  English MPs will be given a “veto over matters affecting England”, with the “principle of English consent” extended to include and English rate of income tax.
  • • A new Scotland bill will be introduced to implement the recommendations of the cross-party Smith commission, set up after the independence referendum, which recommended the devolution of further powers to Holyrood.
  • Freeze rail fares in real terms over whole parliament.

  • More trains, roads and cycle routes.

  • Invest in Midlands infrastructure and build a northern powerhouse.

  • Support a further 3m apprenticeships.

  • Business loans for 75,000 entrepreneurs.




The BBC licence fee will stay frozen, at least until a “comprehensive review” of the royal charter.
• Part of the licence fee will be used (or “topsliced”) to pay for high-speed broadband rollout.

  • Protection for the role of journalists via the British bill of rights with police barred from accessing journalists’ phone records to identify whistle-blowers without prior judicial approval.

  • Consultation on business rates relief for local newspapers in England.




    •  Halt new public subsidies for onshore windfarms.

    • A free vote to repeal the ban on hunting with dogs.

    • Ban wild animals in circuses; new “blue belt” to safeguard precious marine habitats; insulate 1m more homes.




59 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Thu Apr 20 2017, 16:13

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bread2.0 wrote:Ah...it's all the last Labour government's fault......I see.

Fuck off.

The Tories have been in charge for 7 years.

Are we currently unable to score goals because of Owen Coyle and his ping pong fascination?

I wasn't suggesting it was their fault, I was pointing out that these problems have been around longer than the current government.

I'll expect your apology by 5pm.

60 Re: General Election - 8th June. on Thu Apr 20 2017, 16:21

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Natasha Whittam wrote:
Bread2.0 wrote:Ah...it's all the last Labour government's fault......I see.

Fuck off.

The Tories have been in charge for 7 years.

Are we currently unable to score goals because of Owen Coyle and his ping pong fascination?

I wasn't suggesting it was their fault, I was pointing out that these problems have been around longer than the current government.

I'll expect your apology by 5pm.

Even if these problems have existed for more than 7 years it is a simple fact that they are getting worse under the Tories, not getting better, not even staying the same. Real spending on the NHS and education is actually falling despite increased demand.

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