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Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better?

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1 Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Mon May 01 2017, 17:11

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
We've built our whole season around Gary Madine and, to be fair, he's done well.

But I'd say League 1 is his level, we know from last season that he just can't do it in the Championship. Or am I being unkind?

Personally I'd be looking at Barnet's John Akinde who has the build for hoofball, but unlike Madine, scores plenty of goals as well.

Adam Le Fondre has scored a few goals, but has also missed quite a few easy chances. Some would say we haven't really played to his strengths, but I'm not convinced he can do it in the Championship either (sorry Norpig).

Should we be looking at Bury's James Vaughan or Scunthorpe's Josh Morris as an alternative perhaps?

Can we do better on our limited budget or should we get Le Fondre signed up quickly and go into next season with a Madine/ALF partnership?

2 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Mon May 01 2017, 18:23

Norpig

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Jussi Jääskeläinen
Jussi Jääskeläinen
we need to keep ALF, he will score goals in the Championship but i would love Vaughan as well (just to piss off the Bolton hating Bury fan at work). Not sure hoofball will work in the Championship but Parky doesn't seem to know any other way.

Morris would be good also but how about the little Turkish fella at Walsall? He looked like a great player to me when i've seen him and he scored a cracker against us. He would be the sort of creative player we need next season

We will have to scour the bargain basements again so we need to pull a few rabbits out of hats and find some real bargains. Its either that or the Chinese come in and splash the cash  :pray:

3 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Mon May 01 2017, 18:32

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Putting aside your love of ALF, do you honestly think he will score goals in the Championship? Both Cardiff and Wigan found that he didn't.

I like ALF, he works hard, but I think we can do better.

4 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Mon May 01 2017, 18:42

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
We've just got to hope that Anderson's connections made during his former life will reap dividends in the closed season.

I would imagine the net will be cast wide and we'll probably end up signing a few players that only Boggers has heard of.

Madine's not the answer but given how Parkinson sets up, I can see him playing a part in some form or other.

ALF's a decent squad player but we desperately need a 15 goal a season man and I'm not sure that's him.

(Sorry, Mr Pig.)

5 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Mon May 01 2017, 19:02

Sluffy

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Admin
I go along with the above posts but think we will end up signing ALF simply because he can score goals and that he sounds as though he isn't out for big money to join us.

He's disappointed at Wolves as well as Cardiff and Wigan at Championship level, although I've no idea how he's been used and what other forwards were available to those teams whilst he's been there.

What I mean is that he's clearly not much use being a lone striker, especially for a long ball team but he does work well as a goal poacher along side another striker.

He's 31 in December so this is his last real chance to make his mark at this level and he seems to want that more than how much he can get for himself during that time.

I can't see Madine hacking it in the Championship and we should be able to find better but I wonder if we will stick with him now that he's turned into a folk hero this season?

6 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Mon May 01 2017, 19:16

observer


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
The horse before the cart... we have to know finances first... who may invest in the club... what resources we have to move up... and then who is available to us.  We also have to show the FA we are fiscally responsible and have the embargo lifted.  Only then, can we discuss who we can get for what price.  Give credit to Parky and Anderson for achieving when the winds were blowing not so favorably... and becoming the first embargoed club to be promoted.  It may not have been pretty, but to me, going up on the first attempt and not spending on any of the players, is a remarkable achievement.

7 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Mon May 01 2017, 21:16

NickFazer

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
The priority at the moment should be getting the winding up order dismissed and the embargo lifted. After that the club needs to decide it's budget and go from there, Burton have managed to survive on a small budget so it is possible. One thing you have to give Parky is that he is organised and can get maximum effort out of the players, might not be pretty at times but it is effective.

8 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Mon May 01 2017, 21:24

finlaymcdanger

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Whether Madine stays or goes, is or isn't good enough for the Championship, we know for damn sure that another big lump up top to hoof the ball to is going to be essential. It's no secret that we were unable to win games without Madine and its unlikely that we're going to change our style of hoofball any time in the near future. The fact that we didn't have a back-up option to him this past few months almost cost us promotion. Stupid in retrospect.

I don't like him and never will but I'd keep him on, provided he doesn't demand silly money and add another semi-competent thug to compete with him for that shirt. The fun is over and we're in for a very bumpy ride.

9 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Mon May 01 2017, 21:38

Fabians Right Peg

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
I am going shock a few here, however after seeing a fair bit of the U23's this season I think next year will be a breakthrough season for Wilkinson and he could well be capable of being the back up to Madine we need with the added advantage that IMO he looks like he will be a better finisher.

Priority for me is to add some creativity to the centre of the midfield, spearing, vela, Pratley, Trotter, Thorpe and Osede are all too similar and someone with an eye for a pass would be ideal, not sure if Karacan is the answer as I have not seen enough of him.

10 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Mon May 01 2017, 21:56

Sluffy

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Admin
Well Spearing and Trotter are out of contract in the summer and Thorpe is on loan (but I think his home club contract expires also in the summer) so I would imagine at least two of those soon won't be with us and possibly also Spearing too unless he accepts a much reduced contract than he's already on.

We've got Wilkinson on contract already for next season whether we like that or not, so I would think we need to get a better player in than simply renew Madines contract which also expires in the summer.

There is no doubt they are out there - who had even heard of Jutkiewicz before we got him on loan - and maybe we could go for him (on a seasons loan perhaps)again if Birmingham get relegated or Zola is sacked and his replacement doesn't fancy him.

I somehow think we will be stuck with Madine because he was so essential to us the way Parkinson played this season - although I think he's proved himself too mard to play against Championship defenders as per our relegation season.

I fully agree that money, debts and embargo's need to be negotiated first (I did say as much earlier today on another thread) but whatever our situation we WILL have to bring players in simply because a dozen or so are at the end of their contracts - and the savings on some of the bigger wages being paid will allow others to be signed on substantially less wages whilst everything else at the club is being resolved one way or another.

11 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Mon May 01 2017, 23:39

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Whatever happened to Samizadeh?

12 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Mon May 01 2017, 23:55

Sluffy

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Admin
xmiles wrote:Whatever happened to Samizadeh?


Still at the club.

I believe that Alex Honeyball, Callum Spooner, Alex Perry and George Newell will be out of contract in the summer, so I guess Samizadeh must be contracted with us for another season.



Also to add to the striker for next season debate - don't forget that 6 foot 2 inch, Jamie Proctor (loaned out to Carlisle) is still contracted with us for next season.

13 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Tue May 02 2017, 09:47

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Good strikers are expensive and if we don't get new owners/investors perhaps we'd be better off looking at taking someone on loan like Tammy Abraham who kept Bristol City up with 23 goals this season?

14 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Tue May 02 2017, 10:21

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
wanderlust wrote:Good strikers are expensive and if we don't get new owners/investors perhaps we'd be better off looking at taking someone on loan like Tammy Abraham who kept Bristol City up with 23 goals this season?

:facepalm:

Yes, because someone who plays for Chelsea and has just scored 23 goals in a crap Championship team is really going to be available to Bolton.

You need to get out of your armchair and smell the roses. We have to look at League 1 & 2 players with potential to play at a higher level. Or as a last resort, aging Championship level players.

15 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Tue May 02 2017, 11:47

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Natasha Whittam wrote:
wanderlust wrote:Good strikers are expensive and if we don't get new owners/investors perhaps we'd be better off looking at taking someone on loan like Tammy Abraham who kept Bristol City up with 23 goals this season?

:facepalm:

Yes, because someone who plays for Chelsea and has just scored 23 goals in a crap Championship team is really going to be available to Bolton.
Difficult to follow your logic when you don't engage your brain. You're saying that Bolton is an ideal destination for an upcoming striker as we are a crap Championship team? Hang on - that was me.

16 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Tue May 02 2017, 11:52

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
It's called sarcasm.

There's no chance a player who has scored 23 goals in the Championship is going to Bolton. If Chelsea sell/loan him he'll end up at a top Championship side or crap Prem team.

17 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Tue May 02 2017, 11:57

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Natasha Whittam wrote:

There's no chance a player who has scored 23 goals in the Championship is going to Bolton. If Chelsea sell/loan him he'll end up at a top Championship side or crap Prem team.
But that particular player hadn't scored any championship goals when Bristol first signed him on loan so he was unproven when he arrived. Which is why I wrote somebody like him - as opposed to him specifically.

18 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Wed May 03 2017, 19:08

doffcocker

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
There's only so much Madine can do in League One, let alone the Championship.

Yes, we were better with him than we would have been without this season, but I think that says more about the style of play than it does his abilities. I mean there are serious limitations to his game, even at this level. He still wastes far too many opportunities and had it been left to him alone - i.e. take Clough and Le Fondre out of the equation - the only real goal threat throughout the entire team would have been from the centre back positions.

As for LeFondre, his record in the League One seems faultless but a bit patchy in the Championship. Either way he'd be a great player to have around if it didn't break the bank.

19 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Tue May 09 2017, 09:40

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Article came out this morning in which ALF expressed his desire to stay, describing the club as his "spiritual home" and saying that given the opportunity he'd sign in a heartbeat.
TBH I think we need better strikers than ALF to survive in the Championship and whilst I agree with Doff that it would be nice to have him around, it would be a worry if he was our main option. 
Not sure ALF would settle for a career on the bench and a benchwarmers' salary anyway, but we'll see how it develops.

20 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Tue May 09 2017, 13:15

Norpig

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Jussi Jääskeläinen
Jussi Jääskeläinen
You all know how much i love ALF, but i do think he will score goals in the Championship, he did in his first loan spell and when he finally got match fit this season he scored 6 in 12 games.

I would be very disappointed if we don't sign him permanently.

21 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Tue May 09 2017, 14:19

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
He didn't score many for Cardiff, Wolves or Wigan when he (rarely) played for those teams in the Championship. His goal scoring exploits for us were a long time ago.

I suspect League 1 is his level.

22 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Tue May 09 2017, 15:51

Norpig

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Jussi Jääskeläinen
Jussi Jääskeläinen
That's a fair point Nat but he seems more at home with us and i still think he has plenty to offer. I wouldn't be surprised if someone else in the Championship or one of the relegated teams came in for him this summer.

23 Re: Madine & ALF: Can We Do Better? on Wed May 10 2017, 14:29

luckyPeterpiper

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
At the risk of stating the extremely obvious it's all going to be down to money. There are certainly better players out there but there's no guarantee we could actually afford the wages to improve significantly.

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