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Poverty in Britain

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1 Poverty in Britain on Wed May 10 2017, 09:56

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The recent Rowntree report into "people who have jobs but are paid so badly they are still officially defined as living in poverty" showed an alarming rise from 1.1 million in 2010 to the current figure of 3.8 million.

Add that to the massive rise of British children living in poverty to almost 5 million (assume the two figures are related to some extent) and it's clear that the current Government has presided over a scandalous decline in the standard of living for the poorer members of our society.

But what is "poverty"?

For those in work it is currently defined as earning less than 60% of the median wage.

As several political parties are trying to get the poverty issue on the agenda for the election, it is probably almost the time when the Government does it's usual trick i.e. change the definition of poverty - say to 50% of the median wage - to minimise the perceived scale of the problem, just as they did with the unemployment figures.

In fact it's likely that there is a correlation i.e. move people off benefits and into a low paid zero hours contract that still leaves them in poverty but looks better for the unemployment figures.

Do you think the Government have left it too late/too close to the election to get away with redefining poverty at this stage or do you think they'll wait until their majority is confirmed and slip it in on a busy news day after the election when nobody is looking?

2 Re: Poverty in Britain on Wed May 10 2017, 10:13

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I honestly don't think it matters anymore.

Because enough people will simply buy all the bullshit about May being a "strong" leader who will get us "the best deal" come Brexit and that will carry the day.

The real issues aren't important anymore.

We've stepped through the looking glass into the shallow world of "perception politics" and the actual facts no longer matter.

3 Re: Poverty in Britain on Wed May 10 2017, 10:34

Norpig

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John McGinlay
John McGinlay
The present Government have cut things like child tax credits and working tax credits which has massively affected working people on low incomes. Its no surprise to see these figures and the increase in numbers of people having to use food banks.

The Tories are always saying they are the government for the working man but it's all bollocks, they never will care about the working classes, they are an easy target to clamp down on instead of targeting the more wealthy amongst us.

4 Re: Poverty in Britain on Wed May 10 2017, 10:48

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bread2.0 wrote:I honestly don't think it matters anymore.

Because enough people will simply buy all the bullshit about May being a "strong" leader who will get us "the best deal" come Brexit and that will carry the day.

The real issues aren't important anymore.

We've stepped through the looking glass into the shallow world of "perception politics" and the actual facts no longer matter.
But there are "facts" and then there are "facts". If they change the definition of poverty, then less people will be in poverty. Fact.

Question is more about how they will play it and with May currently being teflon-coated I was wondering if they dare do it before the election?

TBH May could order the slaughter of our first born and still get a massive majority if she claimed the young are blocking Brexit so who knows what stunts they might pull?

5 Re: Poverty in Britain on Wed May 10 2017, 11:02

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Well, fox hunting's back, isn't it?

6 Re: Poverty in Britain on Wed May 10 2017, 11:04

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
And it's just been announced that potentially the biggest scandal in British politics since Profumo is being made to quietly go away.

Not that it's had much coverage anyway....

It's a load of corrupt bollocks and nothing's going to change it.

7 Re: Poverty in Britain on Wed May 10 2017, 11:54

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bread2.0 wrote:And it's just been announced that potentially the biggest scandal in British politics since Profumo is being made to quietly go away.

Not that it's had much coverage anyway....

It's a load of corrupt bollocks and nothing's going to change it.
Are you referring to the Tory election expenses scandal?
If so, you shouldn't be surprised. Once upon a time bent politicians were called to account, but since the Government started to control the papers and the courts there is no way they'd be pulled up about it. If Trump can fire the FBI chief for political reasons, then May can exploit the fervour that was whipped up about the judiciary by the media to ensure the corruption is never properly addressed.


In March the Tories were fined a record £70,000 by the Electoral Commission, which criticised the party for resisting its investigation although it was unable to prove any intention to make false declarations.
But following a lengthy investigation, the Crown Prosecution Service said it would take no further action against either candidates or party officials.

8 Re: Poverty in Britain on Wed May 10 2017, 12:10

Bread2.0

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I'm not surprised at all.

The relative lack of media coverage throughout the whole thing was a strong indicator that it'd never go anywhere.

And that was my point: The fuckers can do what they want nowadays because the electorate largely doesn't understand or care what they're up to.

The stock of your average politician is so low nowadays, people almost expect this shit, so there's no great moral outrage when it happens.

If this had been 25 years ago, it would have been headline news in every paper, every day.

But nobody gives a shit nowadays because they're all too busy updating their facebook status or tweeting selfies or pictures of what they've had for their tea.

We are doomed as a society.

9 Re: Poverty in Britain on Sun May 14 2017, 14:02

wessy

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Bread2.0 wrote:I honestly don't think it matters anymore.

Because enough people will simply buy all the bullshit about May being a "strong" leader who will get us "the best deal" come Brexit and that will carry the day.

The real issues aren't important anymore.

We've stepped through the looking glass into the shallow world of "perception politics" and the actual facts no longer matter.
Bang on Bread i agree this also explains the Tory boast about more people being in employment. Yes they are off the dole but working on minimum pay and no rights whatsoever a disgrace but straight from the Tory handbook they always make people fear for their jobs.

They are perceived to be good on the economy yet borrowing is higher than  ever. Sadly all the gullible will buy into this strong leadership twaddle. 

7 years of austerity to increase the debt unbelievable. However when re elected this will get even worse someone will have to pay and it won't be the Fox hunting brigade.

10 Re: Poverty in Britain on Sun May 14 2017, 14:05

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Ha ha, of course the Tories are the only party to spin the figures. Cast your mind back to the last Labour government. They all do it.

11 Re: Poverty in Britain on Sun May 14 2017, 14:20

wessy

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Its not just figures its the erosion of peoples rights, fought for by previous generations. even you can't support asking people to turn up at work in the hope they are given x hours. 

You must think that the kind T,ories gave everyone holidays, maternity pay, minimum wage and the right to work in a safe environment alas it was not so workers had to risk lives and jobs to secure those benefits. These bastards are once again trying to turn the clock back and line the pockets of those who least need it.

12 Re: Poverty in Britain on Sun May 14 2017, 14:22

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
wessy wrote:Its not just figures its the erosion of peoples rights, fought for by previous generations. even you can't support asking people to turn up at work in the hope they are given x hours. 

You must think that the kind T,ories gave everyone holidays, maternity pay, minimum wage and the right to work in a safe environment alas it was not so workers had to risk lives and jobs to secure those benefits. These bastards are once again trying to turn the clock back and line the pockets of those who least need it.

Are you suggesting the Tories are doing away with the minimum wage, maternity pay and the right to work in a safe environment?

I think you might be mad.

13 Re: Poverty in Britain on Sun May 14 2017, 15:08

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I've now be told I have to do two other jobs,and provide my own waterproof gear.

We were taken over last October,and the new bosses are now saying they need to cut costs. The bloke I've worked with for the past ten years has been made redundant,and the extra work will have to be done in the same number of hours.
I complained in no uncertain terms,and was accused,by my boss,of being a troublemaker.
I accused him of being a t@at.
This isn't going to end well.

14 Re: Poverty in Britain on Sun May 14 2017, 16:01

Cajunboy

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
boltonbonce wrote:I've now be told I have to do two other jobs,and provide my own waterproof gear.

We were taken over last October,and the new bosses are now saying they need to cut costs. The bloke I've worked with for the past ten years has been made redundant,and the extra work will have to be done in the same number of hours.
I complained in no uncertain terms,and was accused,by my boss,of being a troublemaker.
I accused him of being a t@at.
This isn't going to end well.
Are you a deep sea diver Boncey?

15 Re: Poverty in Britain on Sun May 14 2017, 16:08

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
TBH May could order the slaughter of our first born and still get a massive majority if she claimed the young are blocking Brexit so who knows what stunts they might pull?


What an absolutely pathetic comment to make Wander. Do you really believe this ? Time to rein your imagination in, and start thinking sensibly again.

16 Re: Poverty in Britain on Sun May 14 2017, 16:08

Bollotom2014

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
If it's part of your normal work wear the company should provide it. If not get some tax allowance on it. But if it's just a mac you wear for walking in the park then it's your responsibility . Also it seems like they've varied your contract, maybe a bit far. Didn't you get TUPED when the company was flogged off? I'd be writing to ACAS to see what, if anything, could be done.

17 Re: Poverty in Britain on Sun May 14 2017, 16:36

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I'm going to change the way I work.

18 Re: Poverty in Britain on Sun May 14 2017, 17:39

DEANO82


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
boltonbonce wrote:I'm going to change the way I work.
I'm assuming that is how you do it now, what are you changing it to?

19 Re: Poverty in Britain on Sun May 14 2017, 17:41

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Very Happy  This.

20 Re: Poverty in Britain on Sun May 14 2017, 17:50

wessy

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Natasha Whittam wrote:
wessy wrote:Its not just figures its the erosion of peoples rights, fought for by previous generations. even you can't support asking people to turn up at work in the hope they are given x hours. 

You must think that the kind T,ories gave everyone holidays, maternity pay, minimum wage and the right to work in a safe environment alas it was not so workers had to risk lives and jobs to secure those benefits. These bastards are once again trying to turn the clock back and line the pockets of those who least need it.

Are you suggesting the Tories are doing away with the minimum wage, maternity pay and the right to work in a safe environment?

I think you might be mad.
They were opposed to the minimum wage for years and then had the cheek to re brand it if they could they would lose it to supposedly cut business costs.

Maternity pay is safe eve under this crew, however safe environment is certainly at risk once Brexit kicks in, the Tories have always  been against the social charter and workers rights, so this is a great opportunity to lose all the safeguards in place whilst in the EU.

 Mad well one of us might be lets a referendum.

21 Re: Poverty in Britain on Sun May 14 2017, 17:54

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
wessy wrote:They were opposed to the minimum wage for years and then had the cheek to re brand it if they could they would lose it to supposedly cut business costs.

Maternity pay is safe eve under this crew, however safe environment is certainly at risk once Brexit kicks in, the Tories have always  been against the social charter and workers rights, so this is a great opportunity to lose all the safeguards in place whilst in the EU.

 Mad well one of us might be lets a referendum.

You're as mad and bitter as wanderlust.

The Tories didn't especially want Brexit, in fact the last leader campaigned against it. The people voted for Brexit, so for you to state there is some sort of agenda to remove worker rights sounds like the rantings of a loon.

22 Re: Poverty in Britain on Sun May 14 2017, 23:17

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Natasha Whittam wrote:
wessy wrote:They were opposed to the minimum wage for years and then had the cheek to re brand it if they could they would lose it to supposedly cut business costs.

Maternity pay is safe eve under this crew, however safe environment is certainly at risk once Brexit kicks in, the Tories have always  been against the social charter and workers rights, so this is a great opportunity to lose all the safeguards in place whilst in the EU.

 Mad well one of us might be lets a referendum.

You're as mad and bitter as wanderlust.

The Tories didn't especially want Brexit, in fact the last leader campaigned against it. The people voted for Brexit, so for you to state there is some sort of agenda to remove worker rights sounds like the rantings of a loon.

The current Tory leader campaigned against it too.

As for workers rights when have the Tories ever been interested in preserving them?

23 Re: Poverty in Britain on Mon May 15 2017, 10:32

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
gloswhite wrote:TBH May could order the slaughter of our first born and still get a massive majority if she claimed the young are blocking Brexit so who knows what stunts they might pull?


What an absolutely pathetic comment to make Wander. Do you really believe this ? Time to rein your imagination in, and start thinking sensibly again.
LOL

Of course I don't believe it in it's literal form.

This may be a tongue-in-cheek comment, but I think it accurately assesses May's current position as teflon-coated and unchallenged, especially in an environment when the generic media message is "support us or be branded as unpatriotic".

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