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Brexit negotiations

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Travelodge
Dunkels King
rammywhite
BoltonTillIDie
Angry Dad
scottjames30
Bread2.0
xmiles
Chairmanda
wessy
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Bwfc1958
JAH
okocha
Reebok Trotter
Soul Kitchen
Sluffy
karlypants
Leeds_Trotter
boltonbonce
finlaymcdanger
Norpig
Natasha Whittam
gloswhite
bwfc71
wanderlust
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31Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Tue Jul 25 2017, 19:04

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

Some truth in that. Trying to remain optimistic, I would compare the current shenanigans with the reshaping and changing of direction of a football team. 
Its realised that things may be ok at the time, but the future is not so rosy. With this in mind, change is called for. It all goes to cock in the beginning, but slowly, (very bloody slowly), plans, ideas, and processes are utilised, and a clearer future is mapped. Unfortunately we have a team with a limited skill set, but they have to go forward, whatever the predictions. The plan could still crash and burn, with the result nowhere what was hoped for, however, getting the stakeholders/fans on board, and in a positive manner may help. it'll be a long slog, but our future is in our own hands. (lets hope we don't get rid of any assets too soon).

32Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Tue Jul 25 2017, 19:30

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

gloswhite wrote:Some truth in that. Trying to remain optimistic, I would compare the current shenanigans with the reshaping and changing of direction of a football team. 
Its realised that things may be ok at the time, but the future is not so rosy. With this in mind, change is called for. It all goes to cock in the beginning, but slowly, (very bloody slowly), plans, ideas, and processes are utilised, and a clearer future is mapped. Unfortunately we have a team with a limited skill set, but they have to go forward, whatever the predictions. The plan could still crash and burn, with the result nowhere what was hoped for, however, getting the stakeholders/fans on board, and in a positive manner may help. it'll be a long slog, but our future is in our own hands. (lets hope we don't get rid of any assets too soon).
I think the point of Brexit negotiations is that our future is NOT in our own hands for the first time since the Norman invasion. Our future will be determined by the outcome of the negotiations with multiple parties who will put their own interests first.

When we joined the EU we controlled our own destiny because we could always walk away if we didn't like the deal on offer.
But now May has made it clear that there's no turning back - so now we can't walk away, we have to get a deal and the people we are negotiating with know it.

Brexit is a loss of control, not gaining control.

33Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Tue Jul 25 2017, 19:32

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

In 20 years we will laugh at your posts (even more than we do now).

This isn't a short term thing, in a couple of decades things will look very different. Greatness doesn't come easily or quickly.

34Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Tue Jul 25 2017, 19:53

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Natasha Whittam wrote:Greatness doesn't come easily or quickly.
No but it only takes a concerted media campaign, an incompetent government and a referendum to lose it.

35Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Tue Jul 25 2017, 20:11

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.

36Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Tue Jul 25 2017, 20:25

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.
:clap:

37Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Tue Jul 25 2017, 20:39

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

karlypants wrote:
gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.
:clap:

+1

38Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Tue Jul 25 2017, 20:56

Soul Kitchen

Soul Kitchen
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.
A pessimist is never disappointed, but Brexit fans could be! Laughing

39Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Tue Jul 25 2017, 22:00

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.

You are confusing pessimism with realism.

There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.

40Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Tue Jul 25 2017, 22:25

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

xmiles wrote:There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.

Meet me here in 20 years and we'll see who was right.

41Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Tue Jul 25 2017, 22:49

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.

You are confusing pessimism with realism.

There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.
Whilst you have your head down, you will only see what is immediately in front of your your toes. Look up, and there is no limit to what you can see.

42Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Wed Jul 26 2017, 07:38

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

gloswhite wrote:
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.

You are confusing pessimism with realism.

There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.
Whilst you have your head down, you will only see what is immediately in front of your your toes. Look up, and there is no limit to what you can see.

Like the flying pigs Boris can see.

43Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Wed Jul 26 2017, 07:40

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

Natasha Whittam wrote:
xmiles wrote:There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.

Meet me here in 20 years and we'll see who was right.

Happy to oblige although I see you expect it to take 20 years to recover from brexit.

44Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Wed Jul 26 2017, 09:26

Soul Kitchen

Soul Kitchen
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

Natasha Whittam wrote:
xmiles wrote:There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.

Meet me here in 20 years and we'll see who was right.
You'll be dead then old man! Very Happy

45Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Wed Jul 26 2017, 10:29

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sluffy wrote:
karlypants wrote:
gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.
:clap:

+1
Is that why they voted to leave the EU? Just because the Daily Mail told them to be pessimistic about Europe?

If they had a more positive attitude they would have done exactly what you say they should have - considered the positive options to stay in and contribute towards the EU's success for the continued growth and benefit of Britain from the inside.

But I guess that years' of negativity from global media organisations with an agenda made them too pessimistic to consider any positive way forward so they just became quitters.

46Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Wed Jul 26 2017, 11:38

bwfc71

bwfc71
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.

You are confusing pessimism with realism.

There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.

The repercussions have already started......

- Pound is very weak
- Slowest growth not only of the EU27 but also of the G20
- Current Government already deciding the money should be spent in London and South East and forget about the rest of the country (e.g. rail electrification vs Crossrail2, and no funding to help the people of Newferry, Merseyside since the gas explosion over 2 months ago)
- Current Government telling farmers not to expect grants, like they did under EU, and that to gain grants farmers have to do far much more than now - many of which are at breaking point
- NHS not being able to cover many posts and the number of vacant posts is up by 8000 from last year
- raw materials up in price, due to weak pound, which means price of goods are increasing whilst wages are decreasing
- Number of food-banks and children with the poverty line are up by staggering amounts in the last 12 months
- Areas like Blackpool Devon and Cornwall and North East being told that their current subsidies from EU will stop and that they will only get between 8% and 10% of what they get now from Westminster - therefore regeneration of these areas will falter, stop or even put these areas into backward movements
-Federation of Small Businesses confirming that the companies within their remit are not investing due to all of the above and uncertainty and actually looking to cutting costs which does mean job losses

so far BREXIT is sending the UK into a downward spiral and it will definitely take more than 20 years to recover, will be lucky if the UK recovers after 50 years, if it recovers at all.

UK is now seen as the sick man of Europe, again, just as it was in the late 1960's before we had to join the EEC/EU otherwise the UK would have become bankrupt and in same situation as what Greece is now - in those days even the World bank and IMF had stopped lending to the UK as it could not repay back.

47Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Wed Jul 26 2017, 12:04

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

bwfc71 wrote:
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.

You are confusing pessimism with realism.

There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.

The repercussions have already started......

- Pound is very weak
- Slowest growth not only of the EU27 but also of the G20
- Current Government already deciding the money should be spent in London and South East and forget about the rest of the country (e.g. rail electrification vs Crossrail2, and no funding to help the people of Newferry, Merseyside since the gas explosion over 2 months ago)
- Current Government telling farmers not to expect grants, like they did under EU, and that to gain grants farmers have to do far much more than now - many of which are at breaking point
- NHS not being able to cover many posts and the number of vacant posts is up by 8000 from last year
- raw materials up in price, due to weak pound, which means price of goods are increasing whilst wages are decreasing
- Number of food-banks and children with the poverty line are up by staggering amounts in the last 12 months
- Areas like Blackpool Devon and Cornwall and North East being told that their current subsidies from EU will stop and that they will only get between 8% and 10% of what they get now from Westminster - therefore regeneration of these areas will falter, stop or even put these areas into backward movements
-Federation of Small Businesses confirming that the companies within their remit are not investing due to all of the above and uncertainty and actually looking to cutting costs which does mean job losses

so far BREXIT is sending the UK into a downward spiral and it will definitely take more than 20 years to recover, will be lucky if the UK recovers after 50 years, if it recovers at all.

UK is now seen as the sick man of Europe, again, just as it was in the late 1960's before we had to join the EEC/EU otherwise the UK would have become bankrupt and in same situation as what Greece is now - in those days even the World bank and IMF had stopped lending to the UK as it could not repay back.

The Germans were heavily penalised with austerity measures by the European Allies after the 2nd world war in 1945 and they are now the richest economy in Europe and control the purse strings of the European banking system. I doubt anyone would have seen that coming back in 1945!

48Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Wed Jul 26 2017, 12:56

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

After 1945 the Germans received massive financial aid from America (the Marshall Plan).

After brexit we will be receiving fuck all from America.

49Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Wed Jul 26 2017, 13:07

Soul Kitchen

Soul Kitchen
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

xmiles wrote:After 1945 the Germans received massive financial aid from America (the Marshall Plan).

After brexit we will be receiving fuck all from America.

Wrong!
We'll be receiving GM food and chicken in chlorine gravy.
Then the NHS will be supported at great cost by yank firms.
So fucked should be the word.

50Brexit negotiations - Page 3 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Wed Jul 26 2017, 15:37

bwfc71

bwfc71
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

Reebok Trotter wrote:
bwfc71 wrote:
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:And a country half full of pessimists, who are determined that everything will go wrong, and, for whatever reason, refuse to consider any positive way forward.

You are confusing pessimism with realism.

There is no way we are going to be better off out of the EU than in it.

The repercussions have already started......

- Pound is very weak
- Slowest growth not only of the EU27 but also of the G20
- Current Government already deciding the money should be spent in London and South East and forget about the rest of the country (e.g. rail electrification vs Crossrail2, and no funding to help the people of Newferry, Merseyside since the gas explosion over 2 months ago)
- Current Government telling farmers not to expect grants, like they did under EU, and that to gain grants farmers have to do far much more than now - many of which are at breaking point
- NHS not being able to cover many posts and the number of vacant posts is up by 8000 from last year
- raw materials up in price, due to weak pound, which means price of goods are increasing whilst wages are decreasing
- Number of food-banks and children with the poverty line are up by staggering amounts in the last 12 months
- Areas like Blackpool Devon and Cornwall and North East being told that their current subsidies from EU will stop and that they will only get between 8% and 10% of what they get now from Westminster - therefore regeneration of these areas will falter, stop or even put these areas into backward movements
-Federation of Small Businesses confirming that the companies within their remit are not investing due to all of the above and uncertainty and actually looking to cutting costs which does mean job losses

so far BREXIT is sending the UK into a downward spiral and it will definitely take more than 20 years to recover, will be lucky if the UK recovers after 50 years, if it recovers at all.

UK is now seen as the sick man of Europe, again, just as it was in the late 1960's before we had to join the EEC/EU otherwise the UK would have become bankrupt and in same situation as what Greece is now - in those days even the World bank and IMF had stopped lending to the UK as it could not repay back.

The Germans were heavily penalised with austerity measures by the European Allies after the 2nd world war in 1945 and they are now the richest economy in Europe and control the purse strings of the European banking system. I doubt anyone would have seen that coming back in 1945!

European Banking System is not controlled by the Germans.

It maybe based in Frankfurt, but that is because Margaret Thatcher, and John Major, REFUSED to have it based in London!  It is completely independent of any other Banking system and it is down to the 28 Central Bank Governors, including our own Mark Carney, to make the Banking decisions, for the 28 countries within the EU.   But that is only aa basis, as each country still have their own Central Bank who them make their own independent decisions, which I had to work under when I worked in The Netherlands.

Germany became as strong, financially, as they did, as they protected their businesses and have very strong internal laws, which many countries have but UK does not.   We effectively opened up our market to the outside world and businesses got sold to them thus making the respective countries even richer.  Thanks to lack of UK control, Germany made money from us, both before and after reunification of Germany and, in turn, helped to increase the financial clout.

Basically we only have ourselves to blame when it comes to lack of financial clout.  Plus we are opening ourselves up even more, after we leave the EU, therefore our clout across the world will become even weaker, and possibly drop out of the G8 - we are currently the 8th richest country in the world - falling 3 places with 18 months and countries on the rise ready to take our place.

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