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Brexit negotiations

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421 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 17 2017, 17:18

Sluffy

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Admin
Thought I'd post this up, to see what people think?

Tony Blair says stopping Brexit more important than Labour winning next election
‘I think this principle's too important ... I would put it above everything else right now for the country’

Article here -

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/stopping-brexit-labour-tony-blair-jeremy-corbyn-eu-referendum-general-election-a8114531.html


My view for what it is worth is, what point is there having Brexit but wanting to be closely linked to the EU for trade purposes and having to toe EU control and legislation to do so?

Might as well stay in and have a say on how it is run.

People are fickle and things change over time (even short periods of time), so if there was another referendum tomorrow, I have no doubt Remain would win by a large margin.

I can't see much point politicians saying they are doing what the public want - if the public as since changed its mind?

Yes, you could use my rationale against me and argue that if we had a referendum again and Remain won, then what's to say people wouldn't change their minds again and want Brexit another couple of years later?

I think the difference is, is that most people can see that Brexit isn't the end of the rainbow that some people thought and that it will (and has) hurt us all financially.  

The Labour Party should be leading the fight as per its core belief for improving peoples life's.

It seems ridiculous to me that we have a Prime Minister, the Leader of the Opposition, and the vast majority of MP's who all voted Remain, with a country that is almost certainly now pro-Remain majority, looking to make us all worse off by pretending they are doing the democratic thing 'the voice of the people has spoken' when clearly now they do not.


Just for the record I didn't vote in the referendum.

422 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 17 2017, 17:37

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
I agree with you (to nobody's surprise).

423 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 17 2017, 17:54

T.R.O.Y


David Lee
David Lee
What made you decide not vote Sluffy?

424 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 17 2017, 19:06

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
T.R.O.Y wrote:What made you decide not vote Sluffy?

I've not voted for years actually.

When I worked in local government I had to deal with many councillors of all parties and I thought it best to stay impartial at all times so could not have my impartiality questioned.

Probably a bit extreme of me but in the authorities I worked in (and lived) non of them were ever marginal, so that whichever party I voted for, everyone knew who were going to win - so what really was the point?

Nothing much as changed in that respect over the years and similarly when it came to the referendum I knew my one vote would not change anything much so I didn't bother.

To be honest I would have found it difficult to know how I would have voted on the day even if I had bothered.  

I had seen how unfettered immigration had negatively effected the local community in terms of health access, housing and education availability but as a father knew the longer term benefits of remaining in the EU for the future of my daughter.

I guess I took the easy option of not voting rather than having to make my mind up.

For what its worth on the few times I couldn't avoid discussing the subject with someone or other leading up to the day, I would always point out that the person I believed to have the best impartial advice on the matter was Mark Carney.

425 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 17 2017, 19:35

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Sorry guys, my pc has been down for the last couple of days. 

Having said that, I've now read your comments, and you know what? Even though I've no problem answering them, I enjoyed the break from all the haranguing and the immovable points of view, and decided that I'm taking time off from the forum until after the New Year. 

Happy Christmas everyone, and I hope that you all have a good and enjoyable 2018, especially you remainer rent-a- rabble   Very Happy

426 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 17 2017, 20:03

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Sorry you won't be contributing for a while glos - see you in the New Year.

I hope the magic money tree brings you lots of goodies just like brexit will. :rofl:

427 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 17 2017, 20:24

boltonbonce

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
gloswhite wrote:Sorry guys, my pc has been down for the last couple of days. 

Having said that, I've now read your comments, and you know what? Even though I've no problem answering them, I enjoyed the break from all the haranguing and the immovable points of view, and decided that I'm taking time off from the forum until after the New Year. 

Happy Christmas everyone, and I hope that you all have a good and enjoyable 2018, especially you remainer rent-a- rabble   Very Happy
Have a happy Christmas  Glos. Having a break from Nuts is no bad thing.

Let's hope the new year brings us a little more clarity.

428 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 17 2017, 21:23

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
gloswhite wrote:Sorry guys, my pc has been down for the last couple of days. 

Having said that, I've now read your comments, and you know what? Even though I've no problem answering them, I enjoyed the break from all the haranguing and the immovable points of view, and decided that I'm taking time off from the forum until after the New Year. 

Happy Christmas everyone, and I hope that you all have a good and enjoyable 2018, especially you remainer rent-a- rabble   Very Happy

Happy Christmas to you Glos.

I'm sorry you've been 'put off' Nuts, I'm sure that was nobodies intention at all.

You answer to no-one off Nuts, so you do not need reply to anyone questioning your opinion on anything.  It's their problem if they don't like your view point or reasons for it - not yours to justify it to them or anyone else.

The Brexit result has unfortunately split the country - and not for the better.

It's certainly had a divisive effect here on our Nuts community.

There's no rights and wrongs on this - as the old saying goes 'one mans meat is another mans poison'.

Nobody can see the future, we might be better or worse outside the EU - nobody knows until it has happened and we've had 20 or 30 years experience of it.

It's not the end of the world though, Norway for instance has had many years outside of the EU and haven't exactly rushed to take our place in it have they?

Anyway, please don't feel you have to justify your opinions to anyone - if they don't like it, then let them lump it - either way it's not going to change anything much is it?

Hope you are back posting soon B.

All the very best to you and yours from Sluffy Towers.

429 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 17 2017, 21:37

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Merry Christmas Glos! santa

430 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 17 2017, 21:49

T.R.O.Y


David Lee
David Lee
Just to point out, nobody questioned the validity of Glos’s opinion, that would be wrong.He was asked to clarify a statement of ‘fact’. Which very is important.

Anyway have a good xmas Glos, get posting again soon the site needs a variety of opinions.

431 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Dec 18 2017, 02:16

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Sluffy wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:What made you decide not vote Sluffy?

I've not voted for years actually.

When I worked in local government I had to deal with many councillors of all parties and I thought it best to stay impartial at all times so could not have my impartiality questioned.

Probably a bit extreme of me but in the authorities I worked in (and lived) non of them were ever marginal, so that whichever party I voted for, everyone knew who were going to win - so what really was the point?

Nothing much as changed in that respect over the years and similarly when it came to the referendum I knew my one vote would not change anything much so I didn't bother.

To be honest I would have found it difficult to know how I would have voted on the day even if I had bothered.  

I had seen how unfettered immigration had negatively effected the local community in terms of health access, housing and education availability but as a father knew the longer term benefits of remaining in the EU for the future of my daughter.

I guess I took the easy option of not voting rather than having to make my mind up.

For what its worth on the few times I couldn't avoid discussing the subject with someone or other leading up to the day, I would always point out that the person I believed to have the best impartial advice on the matter was Mark Carney.
I think you've just put the case for proportional representation - and/or possibly compulsory voting.

432 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Dec 18 2017, 02:17

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
boltonbonce wrote:
gloswhite wrote:Sorry guys, my pc has been down for the last couple of days. 

Having said that, I've now read your comments, and you know what? Even though I've no problem answering them, I enjoyed the break from all the haranguing and the immovable points of view, and decided that I'm taking time off from the forum until after the New Year. 

Happy Christmas everyone, and I hope that you all have a good and enjoyable 2018, especially you remainer rent-a- rabble   Very Happy
Have a happy Christmas  Glos. Having a break from Nuts is no bad thing.

Let's hope the new year brings us a little more clarity.
Ditto. Have a great Xmas Glos.

433 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Dec 18 2017, 11:13

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
wanderlust wrote:
Sluffy wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:What made you decide not vote Sluffy?

I've not voted for years actually.

When I worked in local government I had to deal with many councillors of all parties and I thought it best to stay impartial at all times so could not have my impartiality questioned.

Probably a bit extreme of me but in the authorities I worked in (and lived) non of them were ever marginal, so that whichever party I voted for, everyone knew who were going to win - so what really was the point?

Nothing much as changed in that respect over the years and similarly when it came to the referendum I knew my one vote would not change anything much so I didn't bother.

To be honest I would have found it difficult to know how I would have voted on the day even if I had bothered.  

I had seen how unfettered immigration had negatively effected the local community in terms of health access, housing and education availability but as a father knew the longer term benefits of remaining in the EU for the future of my daughter.

I guess I took the easy option of not voting rather than having to make my mind up.

For what its worth on the few times I couldn't avoid discussing the subject with someone or other leading up to the day, I would always point out that the person I believed to have the best impartial advice on the matter was Mark Carney.
I think you've just put the case for proportional representation - and/or possibly compulsory voting.

Yes, proportional representation for a yes / no question - brilliant idea!

51.9% Brexit, 48,1% Remain plus another 4.7% of people like Wanderlust who clearly never think things through!

Rolling Eyes

434 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Dec 18 2017, 13:10

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Sluffy wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Sluffy wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:What made you decide not vote Sluffy?

I've not voted for years actually.

When I worked in local government I had to deal with many councillors of all parties and I thought it best to stay impartial at all times so could not have my impartiality questioned.

Probably a bit extreme of me but in the authorities I worked in (and lived) non of them were ever marginal, so that whichever party I voted for, everyone knew who were going to win - so what really was the point?

Nothing much as changed in that respect over the years and similarly when it came to the referendum I knew my one vote would not change anything much so I didn't bother.

To be honest I would have found it difficult to know how I would have voted on the day even if I had bothered.  

I had seen how unfettered immigration had negatively effected the local community in terms of health access, housing and education availability but as a father knew the longer term benefits of remaining in the EU for the future of my daughter.

I guess I took the easy option of not voting rather than having to make my mind up.

For what its worth on the few times I couldn't avoid discussing the subject with someone or other leading up to the day, I would always point out that the person I believed to have the best impartial advice on the matter was Mark Carney.
I think you've just put the case for proportional representation - and/or possibly compulsory voting.

Yes, proportional representation for a yes / no question - brilliant idea!

51.9% Brexit, 48,1% Remain plus another 4.7% of people like Wanderlust who clearly never think things through!

Rolling Eyes
So how many yes/no questions have you not voted for in years? 
Were they all "should I vote or not?"
Tosser.

435 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Dec 20 2017, 11:35

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Interesting statement from the EU regarding the Brexit transitional period. They say it won't go beyond 2 years i.e. the end of 2020. That implies a degree of optimism over the pace of striking a trade deal.
It took 10 years to work out the trade deal between the EU and Canada and that didn't include the most controversial element - and in our case Britain's biggest earner - the financial sector.

436 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Dec 20 2017, 11:40

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
wanderlust wrote:Interesting statement from the EU regarding the Brexit transitional period. They say it won't go beyond 2 years i.e. the end of 2020. That implies a degree of optimism over the pace of striking a trade deal.
It took 10 years to work out the trade deal between the EU and Canada and that didn't include the most controversial element - and in our case Britain's biggest earner - the financial sector.
This has just been contextualised by the IMF downgrading Britain's growth forecast to 1.6% in the light of investor uncertainty over Brexit.

(IMF Chief)  said that relative to growth in the rest of the world, "the UK is losing out as a result of higher inflation, pressure on wages and incomes and delayed investment".


With inflation rising above 3% and growth at roughly half of that, I guess they have a point.

437 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Dec 20 2017, 13:06

Bollotom2014

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Plus local government will be able to increase council tax by a massive amount above inflation, as will police commissioners (???), thus giving the BofE's Carney a big headache. This alone will keep inflation at its current level.

438 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Dec 20 2017, 13:26

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bollotom2014 wrote:Plus local government will be able to increase council tax by a massive amount above inflation, as will police commissioners (???), thus giving the BofE's Carney a big headache. This alone will keep inflation at its current level.
Not sure what you are referring to about the Police, but whilst growth is lower than inflation it can only lead to a further reduction in the standard of living for the majority of people.

439 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Dec 20 2017, 13:35

T.R.O.Y


David Lee
David Lee
Bollotom2014 wrote:This alone will keep inflation at its current level.

Don't disagree that inflation will remain high. Not sure why you think increasing the money going to the police will do this though?

440 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Dec 20 2017, 15:18

Cajunboy

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
All those coppers add up.

441 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Dec 20 2017, 15:38

T.R.O.Y


David Lee
David Lee
Tory voters must be in panic mode, selfish gits might have to pay more in taxes. 

:falltopieces:

442 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Dec 20 2017, 15:47

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
T.R.O.Y wrote:Tory voters must be in panic mode, selfish gits might have to pay more in taxes. 

:falltopieces:

Not the rich ones. They won't be suffering.

443 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Dec 20 2017, 15:53

T.R.O.Y


David Lee
David Lee
True, but the Tories managed to dupe the nation that they are somehow 'responsible' with the economy. 

It's painfully obvious how incompetent they are, even (surely) to Tory voters themselves.

444 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Dec 20 2017, 17:48

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
The Conservatives have been duping voters for a long time aided by their virtual monopoly on print media. If they didn't dupe voters how would they ever get elected? No matter how much they pretend to care they only look after the rich and powerful. Why anybody in a low paid job would vote for them baffles me.

445 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 03 2018, 13:42

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Unbelievable! Ministers have apparently held talks to discuss the possibility of the UK joining the Trans Pacific Partnership post Brexit. Given that the TPP is a fledgling EU - only on the other side of the world -  the stench of desperation to secure any kind of trade deal has finally settled over Westminster. Can't wait to hear what Brexiteers make of this latest red herring.

446 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 03 2018, 16:20

okocha

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
The only Brexit battle Theresa has won has been with regard to the way the press have somehow swallowed and developed the spin suggesting that she had fought stubbornly and successfully for the UK's benefit....when the truth is that all she has done is capitulate to all the EU's demands in order for trade talks to begin.

447 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 03 2018, 17:08

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Most of the press have been fanatically anti EU and pro brexit for years so she didn't even win that battle.

448 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 03 2018, 19:37

okocha

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
True, but there was evidence that many more people  (and newspaper columnists) were grudgingly impressed at her stubborn persistence, allowing trade talks to begin whilst Davis was getting nowhere. Somehow they failed to grasp (or chose to) that it was a doddle to get to this stage.....all that was needed was to give in to all the Eu's demands! Our bargaining has been as abysmal as Cameron's efforts to make headway with the EU.

449 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 03 2018, 22:59

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
okocha wrote:True, but there was evidence that many more people  (and newspaper columnists) were grudgingly impressed at her stubborn persistence, allowing trade talks to begin whilst Davis was getting nowhere. Somehow they failed to grasp (or chose to) that it was a doddle to get to this stage.....all that was needed was to give in to all the Eu's demands! Our bargaining has been as abysmal as Cameron's efforts to make headway with the EU.

The complete fudge over the Irish border would be funny if it wasn't so depressing and so representative of the shambles that constitutes our negotiating position. And yet the brexit loons keep thinking everything is going to be OK despite all the evidence to the contrary.

450 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jan 04 2018, 18:45

Reebok Trotter

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
wanderlust wrote:
wanderlust wrote:Interesting statement from the EU regarding the Brexit transitional period. They say it won't go beyond 2 years i.e. the end of 2020. That implies a degree of optimism over the pace of striking a trade deal.
It took 10 years to work out the trade deal between the EU and Canada and that didn't include the most controversial element - and in our case Britain's biggest earner - the financial sector.
This has just been contextualised by the IMF downgrading Britain's growth forecast to 1.6% in the light of investor uncertainty over Brexit.

(IMF Chief)  said that relative to growth in the rest of the world, "the UK is losing out as a result of higher inflation, pressure on wages and incomes and delayed investment".


With inflation rising above 3% and growth at roughly half of that, I guess they have a point.

The IMF have been consistent throughout. Problem is that they have been consistently wrong. According to them we should be in a deep recession now: 


https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2Famp%2Fs%2Forder-order.com%2F2017%2F11%2F09%2Fslowest-gdp-g7%2Famp%2F&h=ATM9YSVJ5vFNd5KFmPc27aipmVNi2cAjGSAzQSY7oBeklH50CgUHH-QeunwPAfOaJscYq-5OebD_0kcvPgE7bXS_lm2yJ55iTiVWnLE4X70TqOHMcqvEFwk_g7Qim3OmcVMqBjU8nw

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