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Brexit negotiations

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541 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:16 pm

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
gloswhite wrote: They have been intransigent, overly demanding, and people such as Guy Verhofstadt have personally insulted our Prime Minister, as well as members of her cabinet, along with the British public. Whatever our views, it is grossly disrespectful, and unacceptable, for a foreign diplomat to do this. So much for our European 'friends'. 
Hang on Glos. Slagging off Europeans is a British national pastime, at the core of our red top media and naff television programming. Anyone who has travelled in Europe knows that for the most part our media lie to the British people about Europe and Europeans. They bang on about EU regulation whilst our own is inferior. They complain about our health service when they know that you get better service in Europe. Everything European has been denigrated in our media - as if we run a smooth ship here. We don't. But this constant drip feed of disinformation is what brought us to Brexit in the first place.
They may not be "friends" but that's not needed in a business partnership, especially when it's one that is in our mutual interest.

542 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:32 pm

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:Agreed XM. Why people think the EU are nice people, and we would be safe within their confines is one thing, but lets be honest, we have seen nothing whatsoever from any of the EU negotiations to fill us with either optimism, or confidence. They have been intransigent, overly demanding, and people such as Guy Verhofstadt have personally insulted our Prime Minister, as well as members of her cabinet, along with the British public. Whatever our views, it is grossly disrespectful, and unacceptable, for a foreign diplomat to do this. So much for our European 'friends'. 
Whatever the outcome, we have seriously damaged our own reputation as a solid and forward looking country, managed by a (relatively), stable government.
We are one of the worlds largest economies, and we are being treated, publicly, in a disgraceful manner. Makes me, but obviously not a lot of the remainers, wonder how we will be treated if they get their wish for us to remain in the EU.

If we do stay in the EU I agree our status is definitely going to be damaged. At the least we will probably lose our existing opt outs. Given the result of the needless referendum I think we are basically screwed now.

I know it is rehashing old material but I could never understand how so many people really thought that anything supported by the Sun, Daily Mail, Farage, Boris, Rees-Mogg, Katie Hopkins, David Icke, Trump, Putin and a few assorted rich tax exiles could be good for most people in Britain.
There are many very intelligent people who think its best for us, and they come from all sorts of trades, skills, and walks of life. Not all Brexiteers are stupid as has been pushed so vociferously by the Remainers. I agree that since the referendum many things are changing, but not always for the worst/best, (its not always so black and white). I feel that the Brexiteers felt they had won the argument, and sat back, whilst the Remainers took advantage of the lull, and used whatever they could to try and get the decision reversed, which was their right.  Of course the emphasis has changed now, to what we can get agreed before we go, and to my mind, some of the grovelling of some of our so-called leaders, is quite distasteful.

543 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:47 pm

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
wanderlust wrote:
gloswhite wrote: They have been intransigent, overly demanding, and people such as Guy Verhofstadt have personally insulted our Prime Minister, as well as members of her cabinet, along with the British public. Whatever our views, it is grossly disrespectful, and unacceptable, for a foreign diplomat to do this. So much for our European 'friends'. 
Hang on Glos. Slagging off Europeans is a British national pastime, at the core of our red top media and naff television programming. Anyone who has travelled in Europe knows that for the most part our media lie to the British people about Europe and Europeans. They bang on about EU regulation whilst our own is inferior. They complain about our health service when they know that you get better service in Europe. Everything European has been denigrated in our media - as if we run a smooth ship here. We don't. But this constant drip feed of disinformation is what brought us to Brexit in the first place.
They may not be "friends" but that's not needed in a business partnership, especially when it's one that is in our mutual interest.
I don't agree with you there Wander. I lived in Germany, in the military, for 3 years, (OK, it was some time ago), my sister now lives there, and I drive down there each year, and I can say that the small town she lives in has changed, and is still changing. The renowned German medical service isn't as good as it was, (I was charged the equivalent of £42 for 3 items when I was ill), unemployment is rising, they have massive problems with the immigrants. Admittedly, their standard of living is coming down from a higher level than ours, nevertheless, it is coming down.
You're right, our press is a disgrace, but they are to everyone, but our politicians have not openly abused others in the EU as openly as they have insulted us.
We can't be all that bad, otherwise why do we have so many still wanting to come here.
Meant to say, the Germans work harder than us, and expect a certain level of care, slowly but surely, its being eroded, so they complain. In this country, we are in a mess with all things the government are in charge of, due to a fiscal policy that is now out of date. We complain, and are told tough, we haven't got the money. but it doesn't mean we have to kowtow to the EU and their rules.
(This has been a ramble, as I'm having to get ready to go out, and I'm late)



Last edited by gloswhite on Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

544 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:49 pm

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Glos please give us some examples of the "many very intelligent" people who supported brexit.

Just some of those who opposed it include Stephen Hawking, Barack Obama, Richard Branson, Alan Sugar, Mark Carney, the IMF, 9 out of 10 economists, the TUC, Unison, the NFU ... and of course Theresa May.

545 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:55 pm

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
xmiles wrote:Glos please give us some examples of the "many very intelligent" people who supported brexit.

Just some of those who opposed it include Stephen Hawking, Barack Obama, Richard Branson, Alan Sugar, Mark Carney, the IMF, 9 out of 10 economists, the TUC, Unison, the NFU ... and of course Theresa May.
Are you serious ? Do you really think that only the remainers are the intelligent people in this? Sheer arrogance if you do, and it shows how you only see and hear what you want to.

546 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:14 pm

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:Glos please give us some examples of the "many very intelligent" people who supported brexit.


That comment alone shows what a bellend you are.

A friend of mine, who runs a very successful business that he built from nothing, is rubbing his hands with glee at the prospect of doing away with the EU...he says it makes his working life very difficult.

But, of course, he must be a complete dummy.

You really are an arrogant knob.

547 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:28 pm

Bollotom2014

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
xmiles wrote:Glos please give us some examples of the "many very intelligent" people who supported brexit.
Me! But that does depend on what you class as very intelligent. I have 11 GCSEs, 4 A levels and a degree. I am an Air Traffic Control Officer in the forces.
   I voted to leave as I didn't want an all encompassing EU Superstate.

548 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:44 pm

BoltonTillIDie

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John McGinlay
John McGinlay
xmiles wrote:Glos please give us some examples of the "many very intelligent" people who supported brexit.

Just some of those who opposed it include Stephen Hawking, Barack Obama, Richard Branson, Alan Sugar, Mark Carney, the IMF, 9 out of 10 economists, the TUC, Unison, the NFU ... and of course Theresa May.

Donald Trump

549 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:46 pm

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I have a PhD, 4 A Levels, 12 GCSEs, and was Preston Businesswoman of the Year (twice).

550 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:21 pm

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Well done glos, bollomtom and of course Nat! As usual you have completely missed the point.

I didn't say or even suggest you were stupid. I listed a few famous examples of the many very intelligent people who opposed brexit and invited you to name some comparable examples who supported brexit.

So without the name calling and personal abuse please name some well known "very intelligent" people who supported brexit (apart from Trump).

551 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:29 pm

BoltonTillIDie

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John McGinlay
John McGinlay
Duncan Bannatyne, Theo Paphitis, James Dyson, Bernie Ecclestone

552 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:41 pm

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:Well done glos, bollomtom and of course Nat! As usual you have completely missed the point.
Now backtracking because you have made yourself look a right tit.

Your last post was quite pathetic TBH mate labeling Brexiters thick.

553 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:46 pm

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
karlypants wrote:
xmiles wrote:Well done glos, bollomtom and of course Nat! As usual you have completely missed the point.
Now backtracking because you have made yourself look a right tit.

Your last post was quite pathetic TBH mate labeling Brexiters thick.

No I am not backtracking. Try reading my post.

As per usual all the abuse is coming from brexit fans.

554 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:51 pm

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
BoltonTillIDie wrote:Duncan Bannatyne, Theo Paphitis, James Dyson, Bernie Ecclestone

Thanks for actually replying to my question BTID.

Three of these people love Britain so much they choose to pay no taxes here and live abroad.

555 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:15 pm

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
And all four of them are complete pricks.

556 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:16 pm

BoltonTillIDie

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John McGinlay
John McGinlay
These also dont live in Britain: Stephen Hawking, Barack Obama

557 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:19 pm

Bollotom2014

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
xmiles wrote:Well done glos, bollomtom and of course Nat! As usual you have completely missed the point.

I didn't say or even suggest you were stupid. I listed a few famous examples of the many very intelligent people who opposed brexit and invited you to name some comparable examples who supported brexit.

So without the name calling and personal abuse please name some well known "very intelligent" people who supported brexit (apart from Trump).
You asked Glos to name "Very intelligent people" Nothing about Famous intelligent people, you're a dab hand at moving the goal posts, so for that reason I'm out. SWIDT?

558 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:45 pm

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
BoltonTillIDie wrote:These also dont live in Britain: Stephen Hawking, Barack Obama

Didn't know Obama weas British.

559 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:51 pm

karlypants

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
British beef is set to start being exported to China again which can only be a good thing.

560 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:59 pm

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
BoltonTillIDie wrote:These also dont live in Britain: Stephen Hawking, Barack Obama

Hawking lives in Cambridge no? Not that it’s partiucalrly important.

561 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:04 pm

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
karlypants wrote:British beef is set to start being exported to China again which can only be a good thing.

Yes Macron negotiated an end to the Chinese embargo on beef imports when he was there last month. Nothing to do with Brexit - sure you knew that though.

562 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:50 pm

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
T.R.O.Y wrote:
BoltonTillIDie wrote:These also dont live in Britain: Stephen Hawking, Barack Obama

Hawking lives in Cambridge no? Not that it’s partiucalrly important.

Yes I am pretty sure he does but actual facts are not important to brexit fans.

563 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:51 pm

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Xmiles will only be happy when the country is on its knees and fighting over the last apple in the street.

He'll be the one saying "I told you so!" just before drinking his own piss.

564 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:53 pm

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Bollotom2014 wrote:

   I voted to leave as I didn't want an all encompassing EU Superstate.

Any reason to think that would happen? 

No need to quote your grades in reply.

565 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:51 pm

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
T.R.O.Y wrote:
Bollotom2014 wrote:

   I voted to leave as I didn't want an all encompassing EU Superstate.

Any reason to think that would happen? 

No need to quote your grades in reply.
EU army, to name but one ?

566 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:19 pm

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
As that doesn’t exist I’m not going to accept it as proof I’m afraid.

567 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:27 pm

Bollotom2014

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
T.R.O.Y wrote:
Bollotom2014 wrote:

   I voted to leave as I didn't want an all encompassing EU Superstate.

Any reason to think that would happen? 

No need to quote your grades in reply.

Chief eurocrat Jean-Claude Juncker, in lockstep with French president Emmanuel Macron, has put forward ambitious plans for a superstate including a eurozone budget and EU army. (Express)
 
Jean-Claude Juncker has been accused of proposing “the blueprint for a United States of Europe” with vast centralised powers to be agreed at a special summit the day after Brexit. (Times)
 
And others. And I agree not to quote my grades. Oh aye. I've worked in France, Germany, Sweden and Iceland and I can tell you that lots of others in those countries are fearful of how this EU group are progressing. 
   Now you tell me why there will not be a EU superstate, and no need to quote your grades, I think I know them already

568 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:21 am

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Despite rags like the Express’s claims, the EU is not and never will be a dictatorship. So what you’ve posted is one, fedarilist Europhiles wish, this is not the only view in the EU.

There is, of course, a wish in the EU to deepen the links of the single market (see the 5 presidents report) this would have actually been massively beneficial to the services industry and the city of London, but had we not wanted to be a part of it, our special opt out status would have protected us. You wouldn’t read about facts like that in the Express though, and the distortion of facts is half the issue.

569 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:37 am

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
T.R.O.Y wrote:Despite rags like the Express’s claims, the EU is not and never will be a dictatorship. So what you’ve posted is one, fedarilist Europhiles wish, this is not the only view in the EU.

There is, of course, a wish in the EU to deepen the links of the single market (see the 5 presidents report) this would have actually been massively beneficial to the services industry and the city of London, but had we not wanted to be a part of it, our special opt out status would have protected us. You wouldn’t read about facts like that in the Express though, and the distortion of facts is half the issue.
Distortions can be considered as those facts that do not comply with the holders views. Others, who are not working with entrenched ideas, and interpretations, might regard them as variations of views, presented so as the whole can be considered, instead of a comparison to specific 'acceptable' points. Repeatedly damning reports from specific sources, because the holder has a biased view of that source, indicates that the holder themselves have a narrow field of vision/consideration, and may not grasp the wider points being made.

570 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:57 am

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
gloswhite wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:Despite rags like the Express’s claims, the EU is not and never will be a dictatorship. So what you’ve posted is one, fedarilist Europhiles wish, this is not the only view in the EU.

There is, of course, a wish in the EU to deepen the links of the single market (see the 5 presidents report) this would have actually been massively beneficial to the services industry and the city of London, but had we not wanted to be a part of it, our special opt out status would have protected us. You wouldn’t read about facts like that in the Express though, and the distortion of facts is half the issue.
Distortions can be considered as those facts that do not comply with the holders views. Others, who are not working with entrenched ideas, and interpretations, might regard them as variations of views, presented so as the whole can be considered, instead of a comparison to specific 'acceptable' points. Repeatedly damning reports from specific sources, because the holder has a biased view of that source, indicates that the holder themselves have a narrow field of vision/consideration, and may not grasp the wider points being made.

I can't agree with your definition of distortion as "facts that do not comply with the holders views" but get your point about views. I think leaving the EU is a mistake and will be bad for most people in Britain. That is a view not a fact. However the Express, Sun and Mail have a history of printing lies and distortions about the EU (e.g. straight bananas, renaming Bombay mix, Euro notes make you impotent, etc) and it is entirely reasonable to be very sceptical about anything they say about the EU because of their bias.

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