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Brexit negotiations

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781 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu May 31 2018, 15:43

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Lord Lawson, Chair of the Vote leave campaign has applied for French residency.

782 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu May 31 2018, 15:47

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Conservative party considering a vote of no confidence in Theresa May as she refuses to clamp down on the Brexiteer extremists in the Cabinet. IMO they won't carry out their threat as it's not politically expedient at this time but her card has definitely been marked.

783 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu May 31 2018, 17:02

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
@wanderlust wrote:Lord Lawson, Chair of the Vote leave campaign has applied for French residency.

What a hypocrite!

784 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu May 31 2018, 17:24

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
And brexiteers are still claiming that Trump will be doing us any favours when we leave the EU. The correct name for this is magical thinking* - which pretty much sums up brexit itself.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44320221

*Magical thinking is the belief that one's own thoughts, wishes, or desires can influence the external world.

785 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu May 31 2018, 17:27

Bollotom2014

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
@wanderlust wrote:Lord Lawson, Chair of the Vote leave campaign has applied for French residency.
No real surprise there. He has previous for  being in the gang that got rid of Maggie. Would he keep his Lordship thing? And is his intention to leave the UK or simply have an EU passport, as well? They all end up stiffing us. Mind you his offspring looks tasty when she's dolled up and she's a good cook.

786 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu May 31 2018, 17:31

Bollotom2014

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
@xmiles wrote:And brexiteers are still claiming that Trump will be doing us any favours when we leave the EU. The correct name for this is magical thinking* - which pretty much sums up brexit itself.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44320221

*Magical thinking is the belief that one's own thoughts, wishes, or desires can influence the external world.
Aye, a bit like, magical thinking is a term used in anthropology and psychology, denoting the fallacious attribution of causal relationships between actions and events, with subtle differences in meaning between the two fields. (The long version.)

787 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu May 31 2018, 20:35

bwfc71

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:Why are we still negotiating?

Should have walked away years ago.

We walk away and then we cannot trade with anyone else as the International Court would be clogged with thousands of EU applications against us for breaking this treaty, that treaty etc etc etc

Also means that any trade with EU would mean implementation of WTO tariff in that the most basic product - FOOD - would drastically increase in price.

Whilst being taken to international court/tribunal, we would not be able to create decent trade agreements with any decent countries.

As it is we are heading for no deal which will severley impact on everyday lives, with most products increasing in price due to WTO rules, plus any trade deal with any country will not benefit the UK

US - will want a trade treaty that supports their workforce and already stated that any trade agreement will mean higher prices for pharmaceutical products which means prices for prescriptions will raise and the cost for NHS will vastly increase.  Even tonight US is entering a trade war against its closest allies in regards to price of steel, favouring its own companies and citizens rather than other countries, so how would any trade deal favour UK?

China, India and Australian States already want us to reduce the migration laws before any trade agreement

And the list goes on for which UK will suffer, and they know we would be desperate to create trade treaties, rather than prosper.

In effect leaving the EU will take the UK back to the pre-1973 days were UK will be the new Greece where no finance institution will want to risk lending us more money, especially as lending will rocket to try to keep finances in check.

This, at the end of the day, will damage yours, mine, everyones pockets and we will have far less money to live on as prices rise!

EDIT:  I note that barrels of crude oil have risen to just over $60/barrell which is only $2/barrel more than what it was before the referendum (when prices were around 97p/litre).  Going past petrol stations, yesterday I see that we are now paying between £1.26 and £1.32/litre.   This is mainly due to the weak pound which has occurred due to the Referendum results and will continue to have an effect for many years to come, once we leave the EU (and yes this is in the same time of a weak USD, thus showing that the GBP is far weaker than the USD)!



Last edited by bwfc71 on Sat Jun 02 2018, 12:57; edited 1 time in total

788 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu May 31 2018, 20:38

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:But as I said the main motivational factors of the leave campaign were immigration, money paid to the EU and control of our laws.

None of which can be retained by remaining members of the single market or customs union.

Whatever you think of the campaigns that is a fact.

The Hannan quotes are usually out of context most always said we would retain ACCESS to the single market. 

The nature of voting is always the same.

Hannan’s comments are pretty emphatic, as are farage’s:



Controlling immigration may have been a dominant narrative at the time, but it absolutely wasn’t the only one.

What seems increasingly clear is that to control immigration and not be subject to any EU law the economic sacrifice will be pretty massive. Is that worth it?

789 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jun 05 2018, 15:30

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The video above clearly shows that people who voted for Brexit did so on the understanding that it would not mean leaving the single market.

Just goes to show what a huge lie May's government are perpetrating.

Next they'll be saying that the devaluation of the pound that is directly linked to Brexit, has nothing to do with petrol and diesel prices rising by the biggest margin in 18 years this week.

790 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jun 05 2018, 15:47

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Unfortunately most people hate admitting they are wrong no matter how much objective factual evidence shows that they are wrong.

791 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jun 06 2018, 10:26

Reebok Trotter

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@wanderlust wrote:The video above clearly shows that people who voted for Brexit did so on the understanding that it would not mean leaving the single market.

Just goes to show what a huge lie May's government are perpetrating.

Next they'll be saying that the devaluation of the pound that is directly linked to Brexit, has nothing to do with petrol and diesel prices rising by the biggest margin in 18 years this week.


Oil is bought in dollars and the argument seems to be that the pound has devalued due to Brexit. However, the price of fuel has  risen quickly and substantially in many EU countries in the last 2 weeks. The increase in petrol/diesel prices is directly linked to the deliberate reduction in the production of crude oil by the OPEC countries thereby limiting production of petrol/diesel creating higher demand therefore higher prices.

792 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jun 06 2018, 10:40

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Reebok Trotter wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:The video above clearly shows that people who voted for Brexit did so on the understanding that it would not mean leaving the single market.

Just goes to show what a huge lie May's government are perpetrating.

Next they'll be saying that the devaluation of the pound that is directly linked to Brexit, has nothing to do with petrol and diesel prices rising by the biggest margin in 18 years this week.


Oil is bought in dollars and the argument seems to be that the pound has devalued due to Brexit. However, the price of fuel has  risen quickly and substantially in many EU countries in the last 2 weeks. The increase in petrol/diesel prices is directly linked to the deliberate reduction in the production of crude oil by the OPEC countries thereby limiting production of petrol/diesel creating higher demand therefore higher prices.
However the pound has fared poorly against the euro since the referendum so the impact of dollar exchange fluctuations hasn't hit the EU as hard as it's hit us.

793 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jun 06 2018, 11:37

Reebok Trotter

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@wanderlust wrote:
@Reebok Trotter wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:The video above clearly shows that people who voted for Brexit did so on the understanding that it would not mean leaving the single market.

Just goes to show what a huge lie May's government are perpetrating.

Next they'll be saying that the devaluation of the pound that is directly linked to Brexit, has nothing to do with petrol and diesel prices rising by the biggest margin in 18 years this week.


Oil is bought in dollars and the argument seems to be that the pound has devalued due to Brexit. However, the price of fuel has  risen quickly and substantially in many EU countries in the last 2 weeks. The increase in petrol/diesel prices is directly linked to the deliberate reduction in the production of crude oil by the OPEC countries thereby limiting production of petrol/diesel creating higher demand therefore higher prices.
However the pound has fared poorly against the euro since the referendum so the impact of dollar exchange fluctuations hasn't hit the EU as hard as it's hit us.

There has been a devaluation of the pound due to Brexit but Diesel in France is currently £1.24 so it's not just us suffering at the pumps.

794 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Jun 17 2018, 17:41

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
In their desperation to make Brexit appear a success, the government are treating the public as fools with this brexit dividend lie. As the IFS explained the extra funding will have to come from tax or borrowing.

795 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jun 18 2018, 10:05

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y wrote:In their desperation to make Brexit appear a success, the government are treating the public as fools with this brexit dividend lie. As the IFS explained the extra funding will have to come from tax or borrowing.
How is an increase in taxation on working people a "dividend"?
Even the Tory Health Secretary is calling it a cruel joke.

796 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jun 18 2018, 10:17

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
I guess they have chopped down all the magic money trees.

797 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jun 19 2018, 10:53

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I'm just getting fed up with all the spin surrounding NHS funding. If we want to keep the NHS and maintain social care for the ill and elderly we have to accept that costs are rising by 4% per annum which has to be met by the public purse and cost-cutting but after years of cutbacks it's debatable how much more can be saved so the Government need to either fund the cost increases or provide a viable alternative to the NHS/Social Care system.
But if the Government are saying that they want to keep the NHS/Social Care system I think it's outrageous that they offer a mere 3% for the NHS and nothing for Social care and then claim it's a "dividend" which will be paid for by additional stealth taxation.

This is nothing other than Government cutbacks and increased taxes and to suggest it's anything else is criminal.

798 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jun 19 2018, 10:58

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
More smoke and mirrors. Typical of this lot.

799 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jun 19 2018, 20:12

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
More problems: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44532500

Yet another example of the fantasy that we can maintain all the benefits of the current EU relationship after leaving the EU regulatory, supervision, and application framework.

Why do brexit fans find it so difficult to understand that you can't leave a club and still keep all the perks of belonging to it.

800 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jun 20 2018, 11:14

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@xmiles wrote:
Why do brexit fans find it so difficult to understand that you can't leave a club and still keep all the perks of belonging to it.  
The mantra "it's happening so let's get on with it" is specifically designed to stifle any discussion of what it is we're actually getting on with.

801 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jun 26 2018, 16:44

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
And he is supposed to be a diplomat!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44618154

802 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jun 27 2018, 09:55

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Here's an idea:

We know that our national expenditure requirement is growing with the increase of population and import costs and that the UK economy has declined to the lowest growth rate of all G7 nations since the Brexit referendum, so there will inevitably be cutbacks and austerity, so how do we decide which services suffer most from Brexit?
We also know that the Government is attempting to reframe the question as "what services are we prepared to prop up by paying increased taxes for"? as shown by their recent NHS funding scam.
In my local Tesco, they give you a token to select which local charity should receive funding and we pop them into the box of our choice as we leave the supermarket.
So in the interest of the democracy, why not give every tax payer a "token" to choose which of the national expenditure streams they want their taxes to go towards?

803 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jun 27 2018, 10:05

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Sadly not very practical. Health followed by social care and pensions would probably get most votes but what about education and various welfare payments and would anyone vote for defence if they only had one vote?

804 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jun 27 2018, 11:14

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@xmiles wrote:Sadly not very practical. Health followed by social care and pensions would probably get most votes but what about education and various welfare payments and would anyone vote for defence if they only had one vote?
True but if all Government departments had to openly state their case for funding it would help put an end to the hypernormalisation of political decisions.

805 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jun 28 2018, 18:50

gloswhite

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Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
'Hypernormalisation'. That's a nice word. What does it mean ?

806 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jun 28 2018, 20:34

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
It means he’s watched the latest Adam Curtis documentary

807 Re: Brexit negotiations on Fri Jun 29 2018, 13:29

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y wrote:It means he’s watched the latest Adam Curtis documentary
I did - a couple of years ago.
Glos: The word comes from a 2006 American book about the collapse of the Soviet Union in which it was argued that that whilst everyone knew that the society was falling apart, and nobody could imagine an alternative (not that the totalitarian USSR would allow any other system) so the entire country pretended everything was normal and the delusion became accepted as being real. So rather than change the society, the Soviets just buried their heads in the sand  - until it finally and inevitably went tits up.
Effectively, "fake news" maybe bullshit but it doesn't matter to those in power if people believe it.

Adam Curtis argues that since the 1970's the real world has become too complex to deal with so we now live in a fake world that is run by private corporations and that politicians only serve to maintain the status quo on their behalf using hyper normalisation as the means to keep the people sweet - and ignorant.

808 Re: Brexit negotiations on Fri Jun 29 2018, 16:40

gloswhite

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Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
Thanks Wander. Sounds like a perfect explanation, and there's a bit of truth in the Adam Curtis argument as well, I think.

Come the revolution !, which will be prompted by too many people chasing too few resources, and the politicians pretending all is good. (not long to go now).

809 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Jun 30 2018, 11:09

bwfc71

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Danny Dyers outburst on Good evening Britain was spot on!

Not a fan of Danny Dyer and although I am an ardent "Remainer", he put the current situation to a tea, and was also correct on how we have reached the current situation, who was to blame and who should be accountable for the mess we are in.

Yep, Danny Dyer, for once I agree with you.... David Cameron is a T**T!

810 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Jun 30 2018, 14:09

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@gloswhite wrote:Thanks Wander. Sounds like a perfect explanation, and there's a bit of truth in the Adam Curtis argument as well, I think.

Come the revolution !, which will be prompted by too many people chasing too few resources, and the politicians pretending all is good. (not long to go now).
I tend to take Adam Curtis' stuff with a pinch of salt, but it is fact based, riveting and informative.

I still can't get over the fact that the Americans who built the dams in Afghanistan effectively created the heroin industry or the oil deal between Roosevelt and the Saudis opened the door for Islamic extremism.

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