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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » Brexit negotiations

Brexit negotiations

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811 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Jun 30 2018, 16:31

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@wanderlust wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:Thanks Wander. Sounds like a perfect explanation, and there's a bit of truth in the Adam Curtis argument as well, I think.

Come the revolution !, which will be prompted by too many people chasing too few resources, and the politicians pretending all is good. (not long to go now).
I tend to take Adam Curtis' stuff with a pinch of salt, but it is fact based, riveting and informative.

I still can't get over the fact that the Americans who built the dams in Afghanistan effectively created the heroin industry or the oil deal between Roosevelt and the Saudis opened the door for Islamic extremism.
it's 'The American Way'.

812 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Jul 01 2018, 20:14

Angry Dad

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Yes he looks so very busy but there's nothing on his mind and his wavy hair continues not to grow.

813 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jul 02 2018, 09:52

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Just to get back on topic, Downing Street have now produced a third model for Brexit and already they're arguing about it especially that arrogant little shit JRM.

So after version 1 (Brexit means Brexit) was laughed off the stage and version 2 (Brexit means something similar to Brexit but not what we originally said Brexit was) collapsed in the face of the realisation of what they'd gotten us into it's looking like version 3 (Brexit means whatever we can spin to offend the least number of voters possible) is being floated by Mayday.

I'll give it a week.

814 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 04 2018, 13:04

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Is anyone surprised that Vote Leave cheated?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44704561

815 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 04 2018, 20:26

bwfc71

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
@xmiles wrote:Is anyone surprised that Vote Leave cheated?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44704561

As it looks as though they have cheated the system and broke electoral laws, then, under current British legal system, it actually means that the referendum is null and void.

I wonder whether the Government will declare it null and void or continue with the mess.

816 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 04 2018, 20:39

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@bwfc71 wrote:
As it looks as though they have cheated the system and broke electoral laws, then, under current British legal system, it actually means that the referendum is null and void.

I wonder whether the Government will declare it null and void or continue with the mess.

Illegal or not, the government will take us to the promised land because it was the will of the people.

817 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 05 2018, 08:37

Norpig

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The promised land? Don't make me laugh! The Government are in turmoil and can't agree anything amongst themselves never mind the EU.
It'as going to be a disaster when we leave with no deal in place.

818 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 05 2018, 11:04

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
Illegal or not, the government will take us to the promised land because it was the will of the people.
The less than a third of the population who voted to leave were "promised" loads of different things, and since last year they've gone back on/ruled out most of the "promises" made, so which promised land and which people are you on about? The corporates who engineered it or the mugs that swallowed their lies?

819 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 05 2018, 11:30

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@wanderlust wrote:The less than a third of the population who voted to leave were "promised" loads of different things

I seem to remember it was a 52% who voted to leave. Or are you counting the people who didn't bother voting in your stats?

Because that's their own fault.

820 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 05 2018, 12:22

bwfc71

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:The less than a third of the population who voted to leave were "promised" loads of different things

I seem to remember it was a 52% who voted to leave. Or are you counting the people who didn't bother voting in your stats?

Because that's their own fault.

Wanderlust is right as less than a third of the population gave an opinion to leave.

It was 52% of people, that gave an opinion, wanted to leave,  but then that is only 36% of the electorate that were allowed to give an opinion.   Also lets not forget about the scandal of the ex-pats opinions that somehow "got lost" until after the referendum, and as such could not be counted, and from those opinions it would have been "Remain" winning the opinion poll.

No one voted to remain or leave as referendum do not have any legal rights.  People, as in all referendums, only give an opinion.  Hence referendums are just large opinion polls and that's it!

821 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 05 2018, 12:28

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:The less than a third of the population who voted to leave were "promised" loads of different things

I seem to remember it was a 52% who voted to leave. Or are you counting the people who didn't bother voting in your stats?

Because that's their own fault.
So you're still not denying it was less than a third of the population. Or that those who voted Leave, voted on the basis of being lied to and voted for things they have subsequently been told they won't get?

A bit like...

"Would you like a shiny new red Ferrari?"
"Yes please!"
"OK - just give me your word you want it and we'll get it for you"
"So all I have to do to get the Ferrari is vote leave?"
"For sure"



"Where's my Ferrari then?"
"We never actually said you could have a Ferrari. Here's a Trabant."
"Yes you did!"
"Well tough because there is no Ferrari."
"In that case I've changed my mind you lying bastard"
"You can't - you voted leave and once you vote there's no turning back"
"But I voted for a Ferrari. The car I had was better than that effing Trabant"
"Don't be stupid - that was never going to happen. What kind of idiot would believe they'd get a Ferrari for nothing?""
"But if you change what you're selling, surely I can change my mind about buying it?"
"Not in this country pal."

822 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 05 2018, 13:00

Sluffy

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Admin
Whose to say the other two thirds of the country who didn't vote wouldn't have voted for Brexit too?

I personally would not want us to leave the EU and I think it's wrong for the country not to stop and review the whole thing again because clearly now a majority of the electorate no longer wants Brexit as they've seen the effects on the economy it's had so far.

The whole damn mess is a Conservative one with Cameron holding a needless referendum in the first place in order to silence the euro-sceptics they had in their ranks, never believing for one moment the country would chose Brexit (maybe he and his cronies should have got out more and gauged the view of those that weren't lucky enough to go to Eton school and he might have thought differently about it!).

Then May compounded the position by blowing her authority away by holding a needless election and losing her majority and ever since been at the mercy of the Ulster Unionist nut cases and the euro-sceptic loons who are now in a position of power over her.

If all that wasn't bad enough that waste of space Corbyn (who should have delivered a pro-Remain vote from his Labour Party membership at the Referendum - but didn't by being almost invisible in the campaigning and obviously being a closet pro-Brexitier) who now should be actively campaigning to do something about keeping us in the EU (but isn't!) being that it is the epitome about what socialism is about in the first place, namely people joining together to make a better life for themselves and their family's.

Is it any wonder really why two thirds of the country don't vote and half of them that do are often led up the garden path?

823 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 05 2018, 13:10

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@bwfc71 wrote:It was 52% of people, that gave an opinion, wanted to leave,  but then that is only 36% of the electorate that were allowed to give an opinion.

That's one of the worst arguments I've heard yet.

Everyone who wanted to vote was allowed to. So it was as fair as it could have been.

Sour grapes.

824 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 05 2018, 13:22

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@bwfc71 wrote:It was 52% of people, that gave an opinion, wanted to leave,  but then that is only 36% of the electorate that were allowed to give an opinion.

That's one of the worst arguments I've heard yet.

Everyone who wanted to vote was allowed to. So it was as fair as it could have been.

Sour grapes.

Except it wasn't fair as Vote Leave cheated.

And then there are all the lies they told like the £350m one.

825 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 05 2018, 13:23

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@xmiles wrote:And then there are all the lies they told like the £350m one.

We haven't left yet. Perhaps when we do we'll start giving the NHS £350m every week.

You need to be patient.

826 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 05 2018, 13:35

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Natasha Whittam wrote: it was as fair as it could have been.
Still in denial?

It's been proven that it wasn't fair on numerous levels including the Government's own enquiry. My favourite is the admission by Director of Vote Leave Dominic Cummings who simply said "The Brexit referendum was won by lying to the public."


Phase 2: railroad something through, despite the truth gradually emerging. 
Well they would but even the Tories are now arguing amongst themselves about what that "something" is. Fact is they don't know what they want, let alone what they can actually get.

827 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 05 2018, 14:14

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@xmiles wrote:And then there are all the lies they told like the £350m one.

We haven't left yet. Perhaps when we do we'll start giving the NHS £350m every week.

You need to be patient.

No doubt it will be delivered by flying pigs straight from the money tree.

828 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 05 2018, 15:07

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@wanderlust wrote:Still in denial?

It's been proven that it wasn't fair on numerous levels including the Government's own enquiry. My favourite is the admission by Director of Vote Leave Dominic Cummings who simply said "The Brexit referendum was won by lying to the public."


Phase 2: railroad something through, despite the truth gradually emerging. 
Well they would but even the Tories are now arguing amongst themselves about what that "something" is. Fact is they don't know what they want, let alone what they can actually get.

People had three choices. Vote to remain, vote to leave or don't vote at all. It really couldn't be simpler.

If some tall tales were told then that's not right, but if leaving the EU keeps my bananas bendy then I'm happy.

829 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 05 2018, 15:30

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
If some tall tales were told then that's not right, but if leaving the EU keeps my bananas bendy then I'm happy.
Not all Leave voters did so for the bent bananas though.
Some wanted more expensive foreign travel and holidays, some wanted a devalued pound, some wanted the closure of marginal British businesses, some just wanted a general decline in the economy, some wanted foreign employers to take their foreign jobs back to foreigner land and some wanted to pay more for imported raw materials and receive less for finished goods exports - they were spoilt for dumb ideas I guess.

830 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 05 2018, 15:37

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bananas are important.

831 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 05 2018, 15:59

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Natasha Whittam wrote:Bananas are important.
A telling statement. Do you peel them first?

832 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Jul 08 2018, 21:50

bwfc71

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
@Sluffy wrote:Whose to say the other two thirds of the country who didn't vote wouldn't have voted for Brexit too?

I personally would not want us to leave the EU and I think it's wrong for the country not to stop and review the whole thing again because clearly now a majority of the electorate no longer wants Brexit as they've seen the effects on the economy it's had so far.

The whole damn mess is a Conservative one with Cameron holding a needless referendum in the first place in order to silence the euro-sceptics they had in their ranks, never believing for one moment the country would chose Brexit (maybe he and his cronies should have got out more and gauged the view of those that weren't lucky enough to go to Eton school and he might have thought differently about it!).

Then May compounded the position by blowing her authority away by holding a needless election and losing her majority and ever since been at the mercy of the Ulster Unionist nut cases and the euro-sceptic loons who are now in a position of power over her.

If all that wasn't bad enough that waste of space Corbyn (who should have delivered a pro-Remain vote from his Labour Party membership at the Referendum - but didn't by being almost invisible in the campaigning and obviously being a closet pro-Brexitier) who now should be actively campaigning to do something about keeping us in the EU (but isn't!) being that it is the epitome about what socialism is about in the first place, namely people joining together to make a better life for themselves and their family's.

Is it any wonder really why two thirds of the country don't vote and half of them that do are often led up the garden path?



Well said!

Could not have put it better myself.

Blimey, I am giving out a compliment.

833 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Jul 08 2018, 23:56

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
Thanks for the kind words above Chris.


Anyway -

BBC Breaking News

Verified account

@BBCBreaking
2m
2 minutes ago


Brexit Secretary David Davis resigns from the UK government
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44761056?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central


834 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jul 09 2018, 01:13

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Sluffy wrote:Thanks for the kind words above Chris.


Anyway -

BBC Breaking News

Verified account

@BBCBreaking
2m
2 minutes ago


Brexit Secretary David Davis resigns from the UK government
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44761056?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central


Inevitable really and his Junior Minister also quit.

Raises a lot of questions about whether or not May is pursuing an outcome for the British people or her own career. 

I suspect that now they - and the voting public - have a better understanding about the reality of the Brexit proposal there is little option but to backpedal as they daren't do a U turn or hold a second referendum, even though one is clearly needed.

Surely they can't risk destroying the economy whilst they play at politics? Or maybe they can and when the country comes crashing down, apply for French residency as one of the lying bastards has already done?

835 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jul 09 2018, 08:38

Norpig

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
All my right wing facebook "friends" are in meltdown over the proposal, May is a traitor and the usual rubbish. Why all these people seem to think leaving with no deal at all is a good idea escapes me completely

836 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jul 09 2018, 10:14

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
As the Brexit meltdown rumbles on, in an unprecedented move, May has today apparently invited LABOUR MPs to a briefing about the Brexit V3 proposals.

After two years of negotiation and strategising, the Leavers have realised that the lies they told the people to win the referendum are undeliverable, so May forced through a more conciliatory proposal and within two days recognised that she wouldn't have the majority to push it through Parliament - and is now trying to recruit Labour to bridge the gap.

Ironically, the "conciliatory" measures she proposes in the Chequers deal are almost identical to the deal Norway has with the EU and I'm pretty sure that during the referendum itself the Leave campaign mentioned "well Norway is doing OK" - so isn't that the Brexit that the people voted for anyway? 

Expecting this to roll on ad infinitum as the Tories have nailed their flag to the mast of a sinking ship and they haven't got the balls to say to the country that they sold a pipe dream no matter how much damage they do in the process.

What a disaster for this fine country.

837 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jul 09 2018, 10:54

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Major change isn't easy.

It'll work itself out.

838 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jul 09 2018, 10:58

Norpig

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
That's the spirit, lets stick our heads in the sand or our fingers in our ears and shout LA LA LA over and over again till it all comes up trumps.

839 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jul 09 2018, 11:29

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:That's the spirit, lets stick our heads in the sand or our fingers in our ears and shout LA LA LA over and over again till it all comes up trumps.

At the end of the day Brexit will happen, xmiles & TROY will cry for the rest of their lives, but most Brits will just get on with it. It's what we do.

Some people have real problems, leaving the EU is not going to kill any of us. So stop bitching.

840 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jul 09 2018, 11:43

Dunkels King

avatar
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@bwfc71 wrote:It was 52% of people, that gave an opinion, wanted to leave,  but then that is only 36% of the electorate that were allowed to give an opinion.

That's one of the worst arguments I've heard yet.

Everyone who wanted to vote was allowed to. So it was as fair as it could have been.

Sour grapes.
Completely false statement Nat. More than a million BRITISH ex-pats couldn’t vote, and many others who could vote could not get their voting in in time due to other problems with voting from overseas like having been de registered from the UK system. Not only that , what about the sixteen to eighteen year olds. Old enough to work, pay taxes etc but not considered to be old enough to vote in a referendum, which, as pointed out is not a legally binding vote on anything, only an opinion poll, yet they could vote in the Scottish independence referendum. The other point is that if this had been a national election then a 52/48 split would not be accepted as a majority. I am sick of Brexiteers just slagging off Remoaners because “we won in a democratic vote”. It was nothing of the sort. It was a biased campaign turning normal people in to xenophobes overnight, and illegally at that according to the team that investigated the finances of the leave campaign.

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