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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Bolton Wanderers Banter » BREAKING NEWS - Three academy players leave BWFC

BREAKING NEWS - Three academy players leave BWFC

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Leeds_Trotter

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
So it seems Jeff King hasn't been offered a new contract, judging by his twitter account. A little puzzling us getting rid of some of the lads who just won the development league. I wonder who is next.  ..dunno..


Would like to thank everyone involved at @OfficialBWFC for the last 18 months! Giving me the chance to prove myself, feel like I have progressed massively, enjoyed every minute of it! But time for me to go an play more league games an kick on!

Hipster_Nebula

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Never heard of him.

If he can't break into a team with as little talent as Bolton then it's probably for the best.

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I'm left wondering what's the point of having a successful academy? 
There's a cost attached and that's fine if we sell players on to cover the bills, but letting contracts run down and getting nothing for them is just poor business.

BoltonTillIDie

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I'm guessing it'll be jeff King wants assurances of first team football, but we can't offer him that, so probably agreed for him to move on. I obvioulsy may be wrong.

Leeds_Trotter

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
He played in the cup against West Ham, didn't do too bad a job I don't think. The club didn't offer him anything BTID, which really puzzles me. Like Lusty said, what's the point in having an award winning academy if we don't use it?

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I'm left wondering what's the point of having a successful academy? 
There's a cost attached and that's fine if we sell players on to cover the bills, but letting contracts run down and getting nothing for them is just poor business.

That’s how every academy in the country works, wages are minimal, you judge whether or not the player is capable of either commanding a fee or making the first team. If his level is Salford City you’ll never get a significant fee for him so let him go.

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I'm left wondering what's the point of having a successful academy? 
There's a cost attached and that's fine if we sell players on to cover the bills, but letting contracts run down and getting nothing for them is just poor business.

That’s how every academy in the country works, wages are minimal, you judge whether or not the player is capable of either commanding a fee or making the first team. If his level is Salford City you’ll never get a significant fee for him so let him go.
Significant being the operative word because even if we got a few grand from the lower leagues or Scotland it would at least be a contribution for the pot, but getting nothing is poor. 
Surely the academy has to be self-sustaining?

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Who do I trust more to evaluate the potential of a player? People involved in the game and BWFC every day of the week, or some gobshite from Norwich who hasn't been to Bolton since 1979?

Tough one.

Leeds_Trotter

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Same old crap with us. Why even waste money on youth development and having a top set up if we are just going to keep letting the promising ones leave?

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Same old crap with us. Why even waste money on youth development and having a top set up if we are just going to keep letting the promising ones leave?

How do you know he's promising? Have you played FIFA with him?

Could it be that he's just not good enough?

Sluffy

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Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Same old crap with us. Why even waste money on youth development and having a top set up if we are just going to keep letting the promising ones leave?

Just because they are good at our academy doesn't mean they are good players in the competitive real world.

Samizadeh who people were almost claiming him to be some sort of Lionel Messi when we released him this time last season managed just a 3 minute, substitute appearance in the league with Kilmarnock in the season just finished - and they too have now released him from their team.

Kilmarnock ffs!

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I'm left wondering what's the point of having a successful academy? 
There's a cost attached and that's fine if we sell players on to cover the bills, but letting contracts run down and getting nothing for them is just poor business.

That’s how every academy in the country works, wages are minimal, you judge whether or not the player is capable of either commanding a fee or making the first team. If his level is Salford City you’ll never get a significant fee for him so let him go.
Significant being the operative word because even if we got a few grand from the lower leagues or Scotland it would at least be a contribution for the pot, but getting nothing is poor. 
Surely the academy has to be self-sustaining?

A few grand is not significant enough to sign a player onto another years contract. That’s pretty obvious, simple as that.

In recent years we’ve sold Holding and Clough for multi million pound fees. Plus had an intangible benefit of their quality in the first team prior to moves, not to mention that of Vela.

Releasing players you don’t think will make the grade is part and parcel of running an academy, our has yielded more in the last 5 years than it did in the 15 before that (maybe longer, I’m not old enough to remember). So think you need to suck it up, do you k ow the academy is unsustainable?

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
It doesn't matter if they are good enough for us or not. They were hand picked players who won their respective leagues so they must be good enough for somebody and even League 2 and conference teams pay transfer fees so you'd expect something for them regardless of what level they are currently at.

And BTW Nat I was in Bolton last week seeing off a mate at Overdale. First time I've been to Bolton since....let me think now...the previous month.

Leeds_Trotter

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Same old crap with us. Why even waste money on youth development and having a top set up if we are just going to keep letting the promising ones leave?

How do you know he's promising? Have you played FIFA with him?

Could it be that he's just not good enough?
Fortnite actually. 

Well he seemed to play well against West Ham in the cup game. If these players aren't given the opportunity, how will we know if they are good enough? We have to take a punt at some stage. We did with Clough and Vela and they did alright for us.

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:It doesn't matter if they are good enough for us or not. They were hand picked players who won their respective leagues so they must be good enough for somebody and even League 2 and conference teams pay transfer fees so you'd expect something for them regardless of what level they are currently at.

And BTW Nat I was in Bolton last week seeing off a mate at Overdale. First time I've been to Bolton since....let me think now...the previous month.

Why must they be good enough? How many academy players do you think even go on to be professionals?

Leeds_Trotter

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Cole Lonsdale also released.

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Sluffy

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Admin
Just to put things in context a little bit for the likes of Wanderlust, one of the people who responded to Lonsdale tweet above was former academy player from 2016, Quade Taylor, now 24 years old.

On doing a bit of checking he was a regular last season for Dulwich Hamlet who played in the Bostick Premier Division (we probably know it better as the Isthmian League) - which is a regional seventh tier league.

Do you really think teams at this level come calling with their chequebooks to buy up all our better academy players?

Do you think the likes of Lee, Philips and Parkinson can't tell the difference between Championship level players from Isthmian standard ones - when they see them train every single day they are with us?



Leeds_Trotter

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Ryan White next on the list of players leaving. Wigan are going to have a field day tomorrow.

What an 8 years it’s been at @OfficialBWFC had some major ups and major downs but now it’s time to move onto my next chapter like to thank staff and players for the experience. Wish the club all the best for the future

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Hipster_Nebula

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Ryan White is a bit of a surprise. He was superb in breaking bad.

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Just to put things in context a little bit for the likes of Wanderlust, one of the people who responded to Lonsdale tweet above was former academy player from 2016, Quade Taylor, now 24 years old.

On doing a bit of checking he was a regular last season for Dulwich Hamlet who played in the Bostick Premier Division (we probably know it better as the Isthmian League) - which is a regional seventh tier league.

Do you really think teams at this level come calling with their chequebooks to buy up all our better academy players?

Do you think the likes of Lee, Philips and Parkinson can't tell the difference between Championship level players from Isthmian standard ones - when they see them train every single day they are with us?



There are lots of professional and semi-professional players in the Isthmian (Bostik) League. Fully appreciate that continuous improvement requires the occasional cull having played alongside many of the cullees over the years however the point I'm trying to make is that whilst some never make it as professionals, plenty do albeit at a lower level than they'd hoped for and whilst the income from a sale may not be much in the scheme of things, especially when you get a few tiers down, there are small clubs with big ambitions who are willing to part with money to achieve them.
And some return on investment is a damned sight better than none, especially when our own financial future is still far from secure.

So just to be clear - I'm not suggesting that the lads released are going to play at a high level or command a substantial fee, but I am saying that some ROI is possible providing we don't let contracts run down and the club is active in the market at all levels - which has the added bonus of improving the scouting system for the next Jamie Vardy.

wessy

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I'm left wondering what's the point of having a successful academy? 
There's a cost attached and that's fine if we sell players on to cover the bills, but letting contracts run down and getting nothing for them is just poor business.

Surely the point is that producing Clough,Vela(still saleable) and Holden saved the club, the likes of King are obviously not regarded as good enough.

The fans always want to see kids brought through however time and time again we release them and the club are usually proved right. look at the kid at Kilmarnock he was rated higher than King but proved to be a dud. Trust Lee and Kelly and co.

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I'm left wondering what's the point of having a successful academy? 
There's a cost attached and that's fine if we sell players on to cover the bills, but letting contracts run down and getting nothing for them is just poor business.

Surely the point is that producing Clough,Vela(still saleable) and Holden saved the club, the likes of King are obviously not regarded as good enough.

The fans always want to see kids brought through however time and time again we release them and the club are usually proved right. look at the kid at Kilmarnock he was rated higher than King but proved to be a dud. Trust Lee and Kelly and co.
Not the point I was making Wessy. Trusting the staff isn't in question. It's simply a matter of trying to get some money for the ones who they don't think will make our team instead of running down their contracts and giving them away for nothing.

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Such as Kellett for example? Or Cian Bolger? Nobodies arguing you should get value when it’s there, you seem to be suggesting that the players who have been let go had value though - when clearly their coaches disagree with you.

Sluffy

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Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Just to put things in context a little bit for the likes of Wanderlust, one of the people who responded to Lonsdale tweet above was former academy player from 2016, Quade Taylor, now 24 years old.

On doing a bit of checking he was a regular last season for Dulwich Hamlet who played in the Bostick Premier Division (we probably know it better as the Isthmian League) - which is a regional seventh tier league.

Do you really think teams at this level come calling with their chequebooks to buy up all our better academy players?

Do you think the likes of Lee, Philips and Parkinson can't tell the difference between Championship level players from Isthmian standard ones - when they see them train every single day they are with us?



There are lots of professional and semi-professional players in the Isthmian (Bostik) League. Fully appreciate that continuous improvement requires the occasional cull having played alongside many of the cullees over the years however the point I'm trying to make is that whilst some never make it as professionals, plenty do albeit at a lower level than they'd hoped for and whilst the income from a sale may not be much in the scheme of things, especially when you get a few tiers down, there are small clubs with big ambitions who are willing to part with money to achieve them.
And some return on investment is a damned sight better than none, especially when our own financial future is still far from secure.

So just to be clear - I'm not suggesting that the lads released are going to play at a high level or command a substantial fee, but I am saying that some ROI is possible providing we don't let contracts run down and the club is active in the market at all levels - which has the added bonus of improving the scouting system for the next Jamie Vardy.

Do you even know what the hell you are talking about?

Contracts HAVE to run down, either that or renewed.

If we renewed contracts then they are no longer academy players but full professional ones, so we are starting to talk about £1,000+ per week contracts.

Are you really suggesting we sign ALL our academy players to full professional contracts rather than release them when their academy contracts expire - just on the off chance some non league club will not only match or better their professional contract but also pay a transfer fee for them?

You're totally out of your mind mate.

Even clubs like City, United, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc, release their academy players who have not made their mark with them - the pick of their generation usually don't forget!

Many of those, the majority of them, don't end up at professional league clubs, yet you think WE - little old Bolton - should never release any of our academy players but give them all professional contracts instead - just on the off chance that clubs such as Dulwich Hamlet swoop in for them with million pounds bids?

You've lost the plot big time.

Kane57

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Bit much to use capital letters in the thread title for three nobodies leaving

Leeds_Trotter

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Bit much to use capital letters in the thread title for three nobodies leaving
DOES IT MATTER?

Sluffy

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Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Bit much to use capital letters in the thread title for three nobodies leaving

It was me that edited LT's title as two then three players were released - and possibly more to come throughout the following few hours possibly.

I did it with the best intentions of alerting fellow Nut readers as to what was actually going on at the time, at the club.

Simply just trying to make the site as good as I could for everybody's enjoyment.

So if you are having a pop at anyone it should be aimed at me and no one else.

Thank you.

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Just to put things in context a little bit for the likes of Wanderlust, one of the people who responded to Lonsdale tweet above was former academy player from 2016, Quade Taylor, now 24 years old.

On doing a bit of checking he was a regular last season for Dulwich Hamlet who played in the Bostick Premier Division (we probably know it better as the Isthmian League) - which is a regional seventh tier league.

Do you really think teams at this level come calling with their chequebooks to buy up all our better academy players?

Do you think the likes of Lee, Philips and Parkinson can't tell the difference between Championship level players from Isthmian standard ones - when they see them train every single day they are with us?



There are lots of professional and semi-professional players in the Isthmian (Bostik) League. Fully appreciate that continuous improvement requires the occasional cull having played alongside many of the cullees over the years however the point I'm trying to make is that whilst some never make it as professionals, plenty do albeit at a lower level than they'd hoped for and whilst the income from a sale may not be much in the scheme of things, especially when you get a few tiers down, there are small clubs with big ambitions who are willing to part with money to achieve them.
And some return on investment is a damned sight better than none, especially when our own financial future is still far from secure.

So just to be clear - I'm not suggesting that the lads released are going to play at a high level or command a substantial fee, but I am saying that some ROI is possible providing we don't let contracts run down and the club is active in the market at all levels - which has the added bonus of improving the scouting system for the next Jamie Vardy.

Do you even know what the hell you are talking about?

Contracts HAVE to run down, either that or renewed.

If we renewed contracts then they are no longer academy players but full professional ones, so we are starting to talk about £1,000+ per week contracts.

Are you really suggesting we sign ALL our academy players to full professional contracts rather than release them when their academy contracts expire - just on the off chance some non league club will not only match or better their professional contract but also pay a transfer fee for them?

You're totally out of your mind mate.

Even clubs like City, United, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc, release their academy players who have not made their mark with them - the pick of their generation usually don't forget!

Many of those, the majority of them, don't end up at professional league clubs, yet you think WE - little old Bolton - should never release any of our academy players but give them all professional contracts instead - just on the off chance that clubs such as Dulwich Hamlet swoop in for them with million pounds bids?

You've lost the plot big time.
Fair enough. If you think that the club shouldn't try to get money for the players they've invested so heavily in you are entitled to that opinion.

Sluffy

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Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Just to put things in context a little bit for the likes of Wanderlust, one of the people who responded to Lonsdale tweet above was former academy player from 2016, Quade Taylor, now 24 years old.

On doing a bit of checking he was a regular last season for Dulwich Hamlet who played in the Bostick Premier Division (we probably know it better as the Isthmian League) - which is a regional seventh tier league.

Do you really think teams at this level come calling with their chequebooks to buy up all our better academy players?

Do you think the likes of Lee, Philips and Parkinson can't tell the difference between Championship level players from Isthmian standard ones - when they see them train every single day they are with us?



There are lots of professional and semi-professional players in the Isthmian (Bostik) League. Fully appreciate that continuous improvement requires the occasional cull having played alongside many of the cullees over the years however the point I'm trying to make is that whilst some never make it as professionals, plenty do albeit at a lower level than they'd hoped for and whilst the income from a sale may not be much in the scheme of things, especially when you get a few tiers down, there are small clubs with big ambitions who are willing to part with money to achieve them.
And some return on investment is a damned sight better than none, especially when our own financial future is still far from secure.

So just to be clear - I'm not suggesting that the lads released are going to play at a high level or command a substantial fee, but I am saying that some ROI is possible providing we don't let contracts run down and the club is active in the market at all levels - which has the added bonus of improving the scouting system for the next Jamie Vardy.

Do you even know what the hell you are talking about?

Contracts HAVE to run down, either that or renewed.

If we renewed contracts then they are no longer academy players but full professional ones, so we are starting to talk about £1,000+ per week contracts.

Are you really suggesting we sign ALL our academy players to full professional contracts rather than release them when their academy contracts expire - just on the off chance some non league club will not only match or better their professional contract but also pay a transfer fee for them?

You're totally out of your mind mate.

Even clubs like City, United, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc, release their academy players who have not made their mark with them - the pick of their generation usually don't forget!

Many of those, the majority of them, don't end up at professional league clubs, yet you think WE - little old Bolton - should never release any of our academy players but give them all professional contracts instead - just on the off chance that clubs such as Dulwich Hamlet swoop in for them with million pounds bids?

You've lost the plot big time.
Fair enough. If you think that the club shouldn't try to get money for the players they've invested so heavily in you are entitled to that opinion.

Certainly not in the moonman way you think they should.

It seems I'm not alone either as every one of the 92 league clubs in this country and all of the 42 clubs in Scotland don't automatically sign all their out of contract academy players to professional ones (and thereby incurring even more money on them!) on the bizarre notion that non league clubs will be fighting amongst themselves to spend loads of money to buy them all up.

It's the most ridiculous thing you've said in years, months, weeks, days!

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Just to put things in context a little bit for the likes of Wanderlust, one of the people who responded to Lonsdale tweet above was former academy player from 2016, Quade Taylor, now 24 years old.

On doing a bit of checking he was a regular last season for Dulwich Hamlet who played in the Bostick Premier Division (we probably know it better as the Isthmian League) - which is a regional seventh tier league.

Do you really think teams at this level come calling with their chequebooks to buy up all our better academy players?

Do you think the likes of Lee, Philips and Parkinson can't tell the difference between Championship level players from Isthmian standard ones - when they see them train every single day they are with us?



There are lots of professional and semi-professional players in the Isthmian (Bostik) League. Fully appreciate that continuous improvement requires the occasional cull having played alongside many of the cullees over the years however the point I'm trying to make is that whilst some never make it as professionals, plenty do albeit at a lower level than they'd hoped for and whilst the income from a sale may not be much in the scheme of things, especially when you get a few tiers down, there are small clubs with big ambitions who are willing to part with money to achieve them.
And some return on investment is a damned sight better than none, especially when our own financial future is still far from secure.

So just to be clear - I'm not suggesting that the lads released are going to play at a high level or command a substantial fee, but I am saying that some ROI is possible providing we don't let contracts run down and the club is active in the market at all levels - which has the added bonus of improving the scouting system for the next Jamie Vardy.

Do you even know what the hell you are talking about?

Contracts HAVE to run down, either that or renewed.

If we renewed contracts then they are no longer academy players but full professional ones, so we are starting to talk about £1,000+ per week contracts.

Are you really suggesting we sign ALL our academy players to full professional contracts rather than release them when their academy contracts expire - just on the off chance some non league club will not only match or better their professional contract but also pay a transfer fee for them?

You're totally out of your mind mate.

Even clubs like City, United, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc, release their academy players who have not made their mark with them - the pick of their generation usually don't forget!

Many of those, the majority of them, don't end up at professional league clubs, yet you think WE - little old Bolton - should never release any of our academy players but give them all professional contracts instead - just on the off chance that clubs such as Dulwich Hamlet swoop in for them with million pounds bids?

You've lost the plot big time.
Fair enough. If you think that the club shouldn't try to get money for the players they've invested so heavily in you are entitled to that opinion.

Certainly not in the moonman way you think they should.

It seems I'm not alone either as every one of the 92 league clubs in this country and all of the 42 clubs in Scotland don't automatically sign all their out of contract academy players to professional ones (and thereby incurring even more money on them!) on the bizarre notion that non league clubs will be fighting amongst themselves to spend loads of money to buy them all up.

It's the most ridiculous thing you've said in years, months, weeks, days!
Although I didn't at any time suggest clubs (non-league or otherwise) would be "fighting amongst themselves" to sign our players, I still think you have the right to express an opinion regardless of how much you misinterpret what I'm saying in order to vomit your bile all over these pages.
You're always good for a laugh so keep it coming.

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