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Bolton players strike!!

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181 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:47 am

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Sluffy - nobody’s believing you for a second, it’s just embarrassing.

To your original post;

- It was established on another thread that a £125,000 fee was paid to a company owned by the Andersons for consultancy. Are we really expecting them to work for free? Of course not, so no idea why you’re so keen to discredit that.

- PAYE has only been mentioned by you, KA gave no clear reasons in his explanation for why there had been a delay in payment - it’s a valid theory but let’s not present it as fact.

- You make no mention of the missing survival bonus, and focus on Amos, why? This was a squad decision by all accounts, again no evidence has been presented to the contrary.

I can forgive Anderson for not paying on time, the cash flow is clearly poor and he’s done a great job getting it into line. But communicate with those affected and don’t go on the attack to the press, scapegoat a player and try to turn the fans against the team.

182 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:00 pm

y2johnny


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I think the real story is that if we were rolling in money the players would have been paid in full and on time but seeing that we aren't, Anderson simply tried to cut a few corners 
To me that is the "real story" - although I wouldn't call it cutting corners. I would call it piss poor management as all that was required to avoid the entire debacle was for Anderson to be open and honest with the players in the first instance.
If he couldn't pay the players on the due date, or even if he didn't want to pay them on that date for whatever reason, if he'd approached them and explained the situation in advance instead of conniving behind their backs there would have been no strike.
Attempting to justify his actions afterwards made things even worse as now all the world knows he is dodgy and not to be trusted in any dealings with him in the future which is bad for the club's reputation and threatens potential signings.
How do you know he didnt

183 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:20 pm

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Sluffy - nobody’s believing you for a second, it’s just embarrassing.

To your original post;

- It was established on another thread that a £125,000 fee was paid to a company owned by the Andersons for consultancy. Are we really expecting them to work for free? Of course not, so no idea why you’re so keen to discredit that.

- PAYE has only been mentioned by you, KA gave no clear reasons in his explanation for why there had been a delay in payment - it’s a valid theory but let’s not present it as fact.

- You make no mention of the missing survival bonus, and focus on Amos, why? This was a squad decision by all accounts, again no evidence has been presented to the contrary.

I can forgive Anderson for not paying on time, the cash flow is clearly poor and he’s done a great job getting it into line. But communicate with those affected and don’t go on the attack to the press, scapegoat a player and try to turn the fans against the team.

I really don't care what you or anyone wants to believe about me quite frankly, I've been on forums for far to long for that.

I've said what I did, no more no less.

As for the rest of what you post.

An £125,000 fee was paid to Athos (a company owned by a relative of KA) for consultancy fees.  There is no mention anywhere where I can establish who the actual owners of Athos are, what the consultancy was in relation to, or even if KA or LA had any dealings with it - so please feel free to show me where I've said otherwise.

Where did I ever claim the PAYE deferment was a fact?

I've mention unpaid bonus on ever occasion I believe and have not focused specifically on Amos outstanding June salary exclusively as you suggest except to point out how much he receives monthly and how much he had received in the year to the last missing payment.

I believe Anderson's reply was fair comment in view of the players going on what is almost as certainly a unofficial strike and whilst full mediation and grievance procedures had not been exhausted.

The matter should have been dealt with behind closed doors and until a legally convened official strike was organised by their union, the players, (if the situation could not ultimately be resolved amicably) and should have played the St Mirren friendly match and any other matches up until that point, if it did ever get to that.

184 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:16 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Whatever Sluffy, you care so much you’d rather pretend you were ‘playing a prank’ (what sort of a prank is that by the way?), than admit you’d made a mistake.

Well at least we can agree on the matter should have been handled behind closed doors. Let’s see what the PFA come out with now, little more we can work out without more information.

185 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:13 pm

observer


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Whatever Sluffy, you care so much you’d rather pretend you were ‘playing a prank’ (what sort of a prank is that by the way?), than admit you’d made a mistake.

Well at least we can agree on the matter should have been handled behind closed doors. Let’s see what the PFA come out with now, little more we can work out without more information.
Next move is KA's!  We have to hear his defense of not paying on time. As I have said before, something or someone really pissed him off to react in this way.  It is really interesting that the senior players went along with this. At the end of the day, there are no winners... KA has lost face with the players, the union, and the FA.  The players have lost face with the fans.  Who in their right mind would come to the club now (unless they have no options)?  I hope cooler heads will prevail and settle this soon and allow us to get off the bottom of the table quicker than last season.  A few wins could turn this all around.

186 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:26 pm

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I think the real story is that if we were rolling in money the players would have been paid in full and on time but seeing that we aren't, Anderson simply tried to cut a few corners 
To me that is the "real story" - although I wouldn't call it cutting corners. I would call it piss poor management as all that was required to avoid the entire debacle was for Anderson to be open and honest with the players in the first instance.
If he couldn't pay the players on the due date, or even if he didn't want to pay them on that date for whatever reason, if he'd approached them and explained the situation in advance instead of conniving behind their backs there would have been no strike.
Attempting to justify his actions afterwards made things even worse as now all the world knows he is dodgy and not to be trusted in any dealings with him in the future which is bad for the club's reputation and threatens potential signings.
How do you know he didn't
Because the same sources that broke the story said so.

187 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:43 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Next move is KA's!  We have to hear his defense of not paying on time. As I have said before, something or someone really pissed him off to react in this way.

Think we’ve had Ken’s defence, he made his statement which gave no reason for late payment - and said he won’t be commenting further.

I read the statement as an attempt to turn fans against players to be honest. A strange tactic given that they are the ones who can bring success on the pitch and in turn increase revenue.

188 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:51 pm

Sluffy

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Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I think the real story is that if we were rolling in money the players would have been paid in full and on time but seeing that we aren't, Anderson simply tried to cut a few corners 
To me that is the "real story" - although I wouldn't call it cutting corners. I would call it piss poor management as all that was required to avoid the entire debacle was for Anderson to be open and honest with the players in the first instance.
If he couldn't pay the players on the due date, or even if he didn't want to pay them on that date for whatever reason, if he'd approached them and explained the situation in advance instead of conniving behind their backs there would have been no strike.
Attempting to justify his actions afterwards made things even worse as now all the world knows he is dodgy and not to be trusted in any dealings with him in the future which is bad for the club's reputation and threatens potential signings.
How do you know he didn't
Because the same sources that broke the story said so.


Would this be the same Marc Iles who told us categorically on numerous occasions that it would be either Adkins or Cotterill who would be our new boss after Lennon was sacked and was totally gobsmacked when Phil Parkinson was appointed.

If so I'd take whatever he says with a large pinch of salt.


189 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:58 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I’d imagine Lust was talking about the players official statement.

190 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:09 pm

Sluffy

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Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I’d imagine Lust was talking about the players official statement.

He said -

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Because the same sources that broke the story said so.

...so that would be Iles would it not?

The players issued a statement to Iles to 'break' the story - and in my opinion - it was unfortunate for all concerned that he did rather than let things get resolved behind closed doors as they should have been and currently are being so.

191 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:58 pm

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Nigel, If I were you, I would ignore all the arguing and bickering. This is now happening on a daily basis, and its pathetic. However, lie low until the season starts, and you might even see some sensible suggestions and comments about the club and football, (if you can wade through all the crap leading up to it).

192 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:01 pm

DEANO82

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Nigel, If I were you, I would ignore all the arguing and bickering. This is now happening on a daily basis, and its pathetic. 
It's only Sluffy having a laugh.

193 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:13 pm

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
He's right. Tomorrow sluffy will be revealing he's really the Chairman of the ST, and he's just played a great joke on us all for the last two years.

How we will laugh.

194 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:42 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Nigel, If I were you, I would ignore all the arguing and bickering. This is now happening on a daily basis, and its pathetic. However, lie low until the season starts, and you might even see some sensible suggestions and comments about the club and football, (if you can wade through all the crap leading up to it).

Spare me. You’ve been involved in enough back and forth topics yourself, don’t try and act as if you’re above them. If you have a high quality input please go ahead and make it, in the meantime people are free to debate conflicting views on the club however we wish.

195 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:45 pm

y2johnny


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I think the real story is that if we were rolling in money the players would have been paid in full and on time but seeing that we aren't, Anderson simply tried to cut a few corners 
To me that is the "real story" - although I wouldn't call it cutting corners. I would call it piss poor management as all that was required to avoid the entire debacle was for Anderson to be open and honest with the players in the first instance.
If he couldn't pay the players on the due date, or even if he didn't want to pay them on that date for whatever reason, if he'd approached them and explained the situation in advance instead of conniving behind their backs there would have been no strike.
Attempting to justify his actions afterwards made things even worse as now all the world knows he is dodgy and not to be trusted in any dealings with him in the future which is bad for the club's reputation and threatens potential signings.
How do you know he didn't
Because the same sources that broke the story said so.
So the players said.  Ok

196 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:59 am

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I think the real story is that if we were rolling in money the players would have been paid in full and on time but seeing that we aren't, Anderson simply tried to cut a few corners 
To me that is the "real story" - although I wouldn't call it cutting corners. I would call it piss poor management as all that was required to avoid the entire debacle was for Anderson to be open and honest with the players in the first instance.
If he couldn't pay the players on the due date, or even if he didn't want to pay them on that date for whatever reason, if he'd approached them and explained the situation in advance instead of conniving behind their backs there would have been no strike.
Attempting to justify his actions afterwards made things even worse as now all the world knows he is dodgy and not to be trusted in any dealings with him in the future which is bad for the club's reputation and threatens potential signings.
How do you know he didn't
Because the same sources that broke the story said so.
So the players said.  Ok
Plus Iles in today's story about the players wanting to meet with Anderson to sort it out. I tend to believe the players as unlike Anderson, they haven't got a track record of being lying scumbags who strip the assets of companies to line their own pockets or breaking contracts they've signed up to.

Of course it is possible that Anderson has suddenly become a reformed person and that simultaneously the entire senior squad have decided to start lying to the media and then compound it by asking for a meeting for which there would be no possible reason.

Or rather it's not really.

197 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:45 pm

y2johnny


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I think the real story is that if we were rolling in money the players would have been paid in full and on time but seeing that we aren't, Anderson simply tried to cut a few corners 
To me that is the "real story" - although I wouldn't call it cutting corners. I would call it piss poor management as all that was required to avoid the entire debacle was for Anderson to be open and honest with the players in the first instance.
If he couldn't pay the players on the due date, or even if he didn't want to pay them on that date for whatever reason, if he'd approached them and explained the situation in advance instead of conniving behind their backs there would have been no strike.
Attempting to justify his actions afterwards made things even worse as now all the world knows he is dodgy and not to be trusted in any dealings with him in the future which is bad for the club's reputation and threatens potential signings.
How do you know he didn't
Because the same sources that broke the story said so.
So the players said.  Ok
Plus Iles in today's story about the players wanting to meet with Anderson to sort it out. I tend to believe the players as unlike Anderson, they haven't got a track record of being lying scumbags who strip the assets of companies to line their own pockets or breaking contracts they've signed up to.

Of course it is possible that Anderson has suddenly become a reformed person and that simultaneously the entire senior squad have decided to start lying to the media and then compound it by asking for a meeting for which there would be no possible reason.

Or rather it's not really.
Not saying either is true as i dont know the facts. But I'm willing to wait rather than slag everyone

198 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:47 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Don’t think we’re going to get anymore facts to be honest Johnny. A lack of communication certainly fits the narrative as to what’s happened and why better though.

199 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:50 pm

y2johnny


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Don’t think we’re going to get anymore facts to be honest Johnny. A lack of communication certainly fits the narrative as to what’s happened and why better though.
The only facts we know is the players wasted a lot of people's time and money by striking. 

We know they all got paid their regular salary. 

We know they would get their bonus eventually. 

We know anderson saved us from oblivion and is doing what he can on a shoestring budget and a juggling act.

200 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:52 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
We also know that this isn’t the first time this has happened. As I’ve said before the only people who can affect success on the pitch are the players so you need to keep them happy and motivated. This won’t do either.

201 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:56 pm

y2johnny


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:We also know that this isn’t the first time this has happened. As I’ve said before the only people who can affect success on the pitch are the players so you need to keep them happy and motivated. This won’t do either.
A bit of common sense doesnt go a miss though. If Anderson didnt speak to the players beforehand then that is on him. But either way i do think the players have done more harm than good

202 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:03 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Yes definitely, there’s no good to come from this from a fans perspective. But for the players KA will think twice about pulling a stunt like this again, partly because I’m sure the PFA will be slapping his wrists. You don’t piss off your staff in any business, had he communicated with the players and held his hands up in his statement I’d have had more sympathy - we all know how difficult the finacial situation is.

But going on the attack because he’s more concerned about keeping the fans onside has made the situation worse.

203 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:43 pm

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Nigel, If I were you, I would ignore all the arguing and bickering. This is now happening on a daily basis, and its pathetic. However, lie low until the season starts, and you might even see some sensible suggestions and comments about the club and football, (if you can wade through all the crap leading up to it).

Spare me. You’ve been involved in enough back and forth topics yourself, don’t try and act as if you’re above them. If you have a high quality input please go ahead and make it, in the meantime people are free to debate conflicting views on the club however we wish.
People are entitled to their views, I agree, but when it daily turns to point scoring, bitching and bickeriing, making snide comments, , then it does nothing but depress many on here, and detract from the point of the forum. 
I'm not above decent discussions, but childish argument, that you seem to take a great delight in, isn't for me.

204 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:12 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
How do you define the two? Because as far as I’m concerned I only engage in debate on here.

205 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:41 pm

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
And still you continue your unnecessary questions. Let me put it succinctly, and in terms that should make it clear to you. 
I don't like you. I think you argue for the sake of it, and you don't add value to any conversation, merely prolonging it, with no agreed outcome. If nothing else, you are a pompous prick, who doesn't enhance any conversation with your constant questions/statements, which has been the situation since you returned to the forum.
I know you will be above responding to such insults, being a shining light of the forum, so lets agree not to speak to each other again. It would make me very happy.

206 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:47 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
My philosophy is if you hold a strong opinion which you aren’t able to answer simple questions on or support with evidence you should probably be questioning that view.

If you’re honest you don’t like me because you took exception to me questioning your views on Brexit and Clinton (supposedly a supporter of drug cartels I think you claimed).

I’ve always refrained from being rude to you. Even when you’ve failed to offer me the same courtesy, I won’t change from that now. Do feel free to ignore me if my opinions wind you up though.

207 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:12 pm

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
TROY, I don't mind your views, only the way in which you pursue responses.

I think your right, I think my dislike of your methods began during those two topics. Your methods haven't changed, nor my dislike.
However, no need to worry, I've decided to leave the forum, for a few reasons, not just you  Very Happy

Good luck for the future.

Bob (Gloswhite)

208 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:17 pm

Sluffy

avatar
Admin
May I suggest you just block each other from seeing your posts and reading theirs.

Easily done just go to your Profile - link at the top of the page - click on friends and foes - add their name in the foes box and don't forget to click add/send.

Easy peasy and no one needs to leave the forum.

209 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:19 pm

MartinBWFC

avatar
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:TROY, I don't mind your views, only the way in which you pursue responses.

I think your right, I think my dislike of your methods began during those two topics. Your methods haven't changed, nor my dislike.
However, no need to worry, I've decided to leave the forum, for a few reasons, not just you  Very Happy

Good luck for the future.

Bob (Gloswhite)
Stick around glos, you'll be missed.

210 Re: Bolton players strike!! on Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:22 pm

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Cheeers Martin. Can't stay now, it would look like I'm some sort of Diva  Very Happy

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