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Time for Anderson to deliver

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91 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Tue Jul 17 2018, 23:42

karlypants

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
KA deserves a little more respect. If it wasn’t for him in the first place then the chances that the club ceased to exist would be almost a certainty.

92 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Wed Jul 18 2018, 00:05

Kane57

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
That's what he wants us to think

93 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Wed Jul 18 2018, 11:45

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:One things for sure, Anderson will think twice before trying to pull a stunt like this again the damage could have been far worse.
Or for an owner who didn't want to spend any money, not paying the wages and bonuses  would be a good way to get a transfer embargo?

Why would the sole owner of a multi-million pound turnover business want to inflict devastating, detrimental actions to his own business whilst he is in the process of trying to sell it? 
Because there's a lot of money to be made in bankrupting a business if you can get away with it - or even if you can't - as the unpaid "suppliers", company assets and investors carry the cost. And shareholding is not the same as investing -  I am a 40% shareholder in 3 companies and I've never put a penny of my own money into any of them, but I do get the dividends.

The last time Anderson did it was for the purposes of syphoning off company money into his own personal accounts leading to the business being bled to death whilst he maintained a PR campaign saying everything was in hand to act as a smokescreen.

Last time he was caught out doing it (2005) when his company finally went tits up, Anderson was done for embezzlement of company funds, VAT irregularities and failing to cooperate with the receivers - all conducted behind a smokescreen of media spin.

Although he came out of it with a ban (9 years?) he made a personal fortune so I don't think the fate of the company, shareholders, the employees or the suppliers was of much concern to him as he sat in his fancy house in Switzerland telling himself what a naughty boy he had been.

No evidence either way to prove he's currently doing that to BWFC however putting in low bids that that don't have a chance of winning and then telling the fans "we tried - it was their fault" or suggesting that we'll get investment and then being unreasonable in the negotiations so they don't invest (and then telling the fans the potential investors were unreasonable/not fit etc) would be a good strategy for Anderson if he is up to his old tricks again. Aggressively putting the blame at the door of others is a central aspect of his MO. We'll find out more in the next few weeks and there's a a different thread for that. 

My concern is that whilst Anderson may control the shares, he has been very careful to keep his own money out of BWFC with the exception of bridging loans which he has already paid back to himself or has contractually prioritised for first repayment so his exposure is minimal and if we do go bankrupt, the club's remaining assets and those investors/creditors who have got money in the club will be stuck with the bill.

So why wouldn't he do it if his personal risk is zero and he has positioned himself to gain the control to syphon off money as he pleases? Because he is a lifelong BWFC fan who loves the club?

Key point here is that there's no real evidence either way to shed light on his true motives but he does have form which in my mind is sufficient reasonable doubt to maintain a healthy skepticism until the truth comes out.

94 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Wed Jul 18 2018, 11:48

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:There is no ring leader, this was a squad decision.

There is always a ringleader in any strike.

When the employees of Whittam International plc went on strike because I'd banned the lunch time sex club, it was Dorothy from Accounts who rounded up her colleagues.

95 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Wed Jul 18 2018, 12:11

Kane57

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Sluffy won't like that

96 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Wed Jul 18 2018, 12:12

Sluffy

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Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:One things for sure, Anderson will think twice before trying to pull a stunt like this again the damage could have been far worse.
Or for an owner who didn't want to spend any money, not paying the wages and bonuses  would be a good way to get a transfer embargo?

Why would the sole owner of a multi-million pound turnover business want to inflict devastating, detrimental actions to his own business whilst he is in the process of trying to sell it? 
Because there's a lot of money to be made in bankrupting a business if you can get away with it - or even if you can't - as the unpaid "suppliers", company assets and investors carry the cost. And shareholding is not the same as investing -  I am a 40% shareholder in 3 companies and I've never put a penny of my own money into any of them, but I do get the dividends.

The last time Anderson did it was for the purposes of syphoning off company money into his own personal accounts leading to the business being bled to death whilst he maintained a PR campaign saying everything was in hand to act as a smokescreen.

Last time he was caught out doing it (2005) when his company finally went tits up, Anderson was done for embezzlement of company funds, VAT irregularities and failing to cooperate with the receivers - all conducted behind a smokescreen of media spin.

Although he came out of it with a ban (9 years?) he made a personal fortune so I don't think the fate of the company, shareholders, the employees or the suppliers was of much concern to him as he sat in his fancy house in Switzerland telling himself what a naughty boy he had been.

No evidence either way to prove he's currently doing that to BWFC however putting in low bids that that don't have a chance of winning and then telling the fans "we tried - it was their fault" or suggesting that we'll get investment and then being unreasonable in the negotiations so they don't invest (and then telling the fans the potential investors were unreasonable/not fit etc) would be a good strategy for Anderson if he is up to his old tricks again. Aggressively putting the blame at the door of others is a central aspect of his MO. We'll find out more in the next few weeks and there's a a different thread for that. 

My concern is that whilst Anderson may control the shares, he has been very careful to keep his own money out of BWFC with the exception of bridging loans which he has already paid back to himself or has contractually prioritised for first repayment so his exposure is minimal and if we do go bankrupt, the club's remaining assets and those investors/creditors who have got money in the club will be stuck with the bill.

So why wouldn't he do it if his personal risk is zero and he has positioned himself to gain the control to syphon off money as he pleases? Because he is a lifelong BWFC fan who loves the club?

Key point here is that there's no real evidence either way to shed light on his true motives but he does have form which in my mind is sufficient reasonable doubt to maintain a healthy skepticism until the truth comes out.

Anderson's plan for Bolton is to bankrupt the club!!!!

You heard it here folks.

And people wonder why I think Wanderlust is a complete and utter nut job!

Well here's the proof.

Rolling Eyes

97 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Wed Jul 18 2018, 12:17

karlypants

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I think if Anderson wanted to bankrupt the club for some financial gain then why has he not done it yet?

What is he waiting for? 

I don’t think spending a 6 figure sum on a player is going to help! Very Happy

98 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Wed Jul 18 2018, 13:57

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:One things for sure, Anderson will think twice before trying to pull a stunt like this again the damage could have been far worse.
Or for an owner who didn't want to spend any money, not paying the wages and bonuses  would be a good way to get a transfer embargo?

Why would the sole owner of a multi-million pound turnover business want to inflict devastating, detrimental actions to his own business whilst he is in the process of trying to sell it? 
Because there's a lot of money to be made in bankrupting a business if you can get away with it - or even if you can't - as the unpaid "suppliers", company assets and investors carry the cost. And shareholding is not the same as investing -  I am a 40% shareholder in 3 companies and I've never put a penny of my own money into any of them, but I do get the dividends.

The last time Anderson did it was for the purposes of syphoning off company money into his own personal accounts leading to the business being bled to death whilst he maintained a PR campaign saying everything was in hand to act as a smokescreen.

Last time he was caught out doing it (2005) when his company finally went tits up, Anderson was done for embezzlement of company funds, VAT irregularities and failing to cooperate with the receivers - all conducted behind a smokescreen of media spin.

Although he came out of it with a ban (9 years?) he made a personal fortune so I don't think the fate of the company, shareholders, the employees or the suppliers was of much concern to him as he sat in his fancy house in Switzerland telling himself what a naughty boy he had been.

No evidence either way to prove he's currently doing that to BWFC however putting in low bids that that don't have a chance of winning and then telling the fans "we tried - it was their fault" or suggesting that we'll get investment and then being unreasonable in the negotiations so they don't invest (and then telling the fans the potential investors were unreasonable/not fit etc) would be a good strategy for Anderson if he is up to his old tricks again. Aggressively putting the blame at the door of others is a central aspect of his MO. We'll find out more in the next few weeks and there's a a different thread for that. 

My concern is that whilst Anderson may control the shares, he has been very careful to keep his own money out of BWFC with the exception of bridging loans which he has already paid back to himself or has contractually prioritised for first repayment so his exposure is minimal and if we do go bankrupt, the club's remaining assets and those investors/creditors who have got money in the club will be stuck with the bill.

So why wouldn't he do it if his personal risk is zero and he has positioned himself to gain the control to syphon off money as he pleases? Because he is a lifelong BWFC fan who loves the club?

Key point here is that there's no real evidence either way to shed light on his true motives but he does have form which in my mind is sufficient reasonable doubt to maintain a healthy skepticism until the truth comes out.

Anderson's plan for Bolton is to bankrupt the club!!!!

You heard it here folks.

And people wonder why I think Wanderlust is a complete and utter nut job!

Well here's the proof.

Rolling Eyes
No - here is a yet another complete and utter lie from you - and the above is the proof.
In a comment that clearly says there is no evidence either way (twice) as to what Anderson's true intentions are, you've managed to turn it into me saying "anderson's plan is to bankrupt the club."

Like you, I have no idea what Anderson is thinking or what his plan is. Difference is I'm not prepared to call him the Messiah without evidence - evidence you have consistently failed to supply when your outrageous bullshit is challenged.

Drop the bullshit because it just looks like you desperate to prove one point - that your "interpretation" of events is the only correct one, when in the absence of facts there are clearly many possible interpretations.

Your ramblings also underline the fact that you have appalling critical reasoning skills and an inability to understand what others write so you can get off that high horse whilst you're at it.

P.S. I don't even understand why you chose to embolden the two phrases above? Do you disagree with either of them?



Last edited by wanderlust on Wed Jul 18 2018, 13:59; edited 1 time in total

99 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Wed Jul 18 2018, 13:59

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Wow, Sluffys trolling finally got to Lusty.

100 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Wed Jul 18 2018, 14:03

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Wow, Sluffys trolling finally got to Lusty.
Yeah. I'm really shitting myself.

Seriously, it does get on my tits when this idiot keeps making things up and then writing page after irrelevant page to try to make it sound true - all of which appears to be designed for self-aggrandisement.

101 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Wed Jul 18 2018, 14:38

Sluffy

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Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Wow, Sluffys trolling finally got to Lusty.
Yeah. I'm really shitting myself.

Seriously, it does get on my tits when this idiot keeps making things up and then writing page after irrelevant page to try to make it sound true - all of which appears to be designed for self-aggrandisement.

Me making things up!!!!

You're the one talking about him having a plan to bankrupt the club for God's sake.

You wrote half a book about it in your post above so don't give us any of this shit about it wasn't really a serious thought from you because you said 'there's no evidence either way' - why the fuck even mentioning it then?  You might as well say he's going to relocate the club to Timbuctoo, or he's changing the clubs name to Anderson's United, or perhaps he's planning to change the club colours to the same red as Manchester United!

There's no evidence either way he's not going to be doing any of those either - but he won't and neither is his plan to bankrupt club.

And before you start, no I don't have proof he won't bankrupt the club but have you got any proof we wont be playing next season in Timbuctoo under the name of Anderson's United in a red kit!!!

You've proved yourself to be an utter fool.

Just keeping digging away - we're all laughing at you!

:rofl:

102 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Wed Jul 18 2018, 14:45

boltonbonce

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Might be a problem playing in Timbuktu.

103 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Wed Jul 25 2018, 10:57

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Should be an exciting fortnight coming up.

104 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Thu Jul 26 2018, 12:44

MartinBWFC

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
His latest notes say the club have made 2 six figure bids for strikers, both have been rejected, and that they won't up the offers, intimates that a bid for Beevers turned down, all talks with investors closed due to timewasters, de-ja-vou springs to mind regarding investors.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

105 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Thu Jul 26 2018, 15:25

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:With Parky asking for seven new players and suggesting that they need to be signed this week to get them embedded, the pressure is building for Anderson to deliver on several fronts.

Whilst I tend to take every Anderson press release as nothing more than spin, I am open to - indeed hoping for - proof that he's genuine, so on that note I had a look back at some of the stuff he's been saying.

For the last year he's been talking about the need for investment. The first lot he spoke to were dismissed as being "not up to scratch" (by his criteria) so they were kicked into touch and didn't invest. Then there was interest from people he did think were up to scratch, but Anderson said it was in the club's interest to wait until the end of the season before he would talk to them. Then the end of the season came and allegedly discussions have been held. Then it went quiet again. 

Meanwhile on the player front, contracts weren't honoured and the squad was further decimated - at the same time the Press releases promised to bring in players of a better quality. The handful of signings to date could hardly be described as "better quality" with the possible exception of Oztumer who has yet to play at Championship level but may turn out to be good.

Now with the clock ticking down to the end of the transfer window Anderson needs to start delivering both in terms of investment and signings. Personally I'm skeptical as I think he's full of shit, but as a lifelong BWFC fan I'm praying I'm wrong and he comes up with the goods. And he's got less than 3 weeks to do it.

So what do you reckon? Will he turn out to be the Messiah after all or will we be faced with another string of excuses blaming the world/the investors/the players/the media/the dog etc when the season kicks off?
Here's a bit of deja vu Martin.

106 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Thu Jul 26 2018, 15:53

Nigelbwfc


David Lee
David Lee
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:One things for sure, Anderson will think twice before trying to pull a stunt like this again the damage could have been far worse.
Or for an owner who didn't want to spend any money, not paying the wages and bonuses  would be a good way to get a transfer embargo?

Why would the sole owner of a multi-million pound turnover business want to inflict devastating, detrimental actions to his own business whilst he is in the process of trying to sell it? 
Because there's a lot of money to be made in bankrupting a business if you can get away with it - or even if you can't - as the unpaid "suppliers", company assets and investors carry the cost. And shareholding is not the same as investing -  I am a 40% shareholder in 3 companies and I've never put a penny of my own money into any of them, but I do get the dividends.

The last time Anderson did it was for the purposes of syphoning off company money into his own personal accounts leading to the business being bled to death whilst he maintained a PR campaign saying everything was in hand to act as a smokescreen.

Last time he was caught out doing it (2005) when his company finally went tits up, Anderson was done for embezzlement of company funds, VAT irregularities and failing to cooperate with the receivers - all conducted behind a smokescreen of media spin.

Although he came out of it with a ban (9 years?) he made a personal fortune so I don't think the fate of the company, shareholders, the employees or the suppliers was of much concern to him as he sat in his fancy house in Switzerland telling himself what a naughty boy he had been.

No evidence either way to prove he's currently doing that to BWFC however putting in low bids that that don't have a chance of winning and then telling the fans "we tried - it was their fault" or suggesting that we'll get investment and then being unreasonable in the negotiations so they don't invest (and then telling the fans the potential investors were unreasonable/not fit etc) would be a good strategy for Anderson if he is up to his old tricks again. Aggressively putting the blame at the door of others is a central aspect of his MO. We'll find out more in the next few weeks and there's a a different thread for that. 

My concern is that whilst Anderson may control the shares, he has been very careful to keep his own money out of BWFC with the exception of bridging loans which he has already paid back to himself or has contractually prioritised for first repayment so his exposure is minimal and if we do go bankrupt, the club's remaining assets and those investors/creditors who have got money in the club will be stuck with the bill.

So why wouldn't he do it if his personal risk is zero and he has positioned himself to gain the control to syphon off money as he pleases? Because he is a lifelong BWFC fan who loves the club?

Key point here is that there's no real evidence either way to shed light on his true motives but he does have form which in my mind is sufficient reasonable doubt to maintain a healthy skepticism until the truth comes out.
He could just as well be telling the truth.

He bids what the club CA afford. Unfortunately that isn't a lot. At our end of transfers it's extremely difficult.

What you ascribe to Ken Anderson, could just as well be said about yhe late Phil Gartside. In fact this scenario always comes up when money is tight at the club. The Warburtons in the 70s we're always described as up to no good. Wanting the club to be bankrupt etc.

Why did both Ken Anderson and the Warburtons bother to rescue the club, since they were practically bankrupt when they took over? Is it because they wanted the real estate?  Don't forget loans were already taken out before Ken took over. Eddie Davies ensured that the no one who took the club on would make a profit on its bankruptcy by leaving a £15 million  loan as well as numerous other payments to him. Maybe you think Eddie and Ken are in it together?

If you look back far enough you'd find that in 2005 Eddie Davies was looking for investors / to sell the club. Unfortunately no one wants to buy into the club, they didn't then and they don't want to now. 

There's no land around the Macron to sell. So we're really not worth investing in. Sorry if that comes as a shock. In terms of land Wigan have the most to sell ( they have 5 car parks) that's good land to be developed. If I was an investor I'd look at Wigan. 

I've heard all these disaster theories before. It's the same spin. One day someone might be right but it's 1 in 100,000 chance and some anti Anderson's are getting their knickers in a twist.

107 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Thu Jul 26 2018, 16:44

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:One things for sure, Anderson will think twice before trying to pull a stunt like this again the damage could have been far worse.
Or for an owner who didn't want to spend any money, not paying the wages and bonuses  would be a good way to get a transfer embargo?

Why would the sole owner of a multi-million pound turnover business want to inflict devastating, detrimental actions to his own business whilst he is in the process of trying to sell it? 
Because there's a lot of money to be made in bankrupting a business if you can get away with it - or even if you can't - as the unpaid "suppliers", company assets and investors carry the cost. And shareholding is not the same as investing -  I am a 40% shareholder in 3 companies and I've never put a penny of my own money into any of them, but I do get the dividends.

The last time Anderson did it was for the purposes of syphoning off company money into his own personal accounts leading to the business being bled to death whilst he maintained a PR campaign saying everything was in hand to act as a smokescreen.

Last time he was caught out doing it (2005) when his company finally went tits up, Anderson was done for embezzlement of company funds, VAT irregularities and failing to cooperate with the receivers - all conducted behind a smokescreen of media spin.

Although he came out of it with a ban (9 years?) he made a personal fortune so I don't think the fate of the company, shareholders, the employees or the suppliers was of much concern to him as he sat in his fancy house in Switzerland telling himself what a naughty boy he had been.

No evidence either way to prove he's currently doing that to BWFC however putting in low bids that that don't have a chance of winning and then telling the fans "we tried - it was their fault" or suggesting that we'll get investment and then being unreasonable in the negotiations so they don't invest (and then telling the fans the potential investors were unreasonable/not fit etc) would be a good strategy for Anderson if he is up to his old tricks again. Aggressively putting the blame at the door of others is a central aspect of his MO. We'll find out more in the next few weeks and there's a a different thread for that. 

My concern is that whilst Anderson may control the shares, he has been very careful to keep his own money out of BWFC with the exception of bridging loans which he has already paid back to himself or has contractually prioritised for first repayment so his exposure is minimal and if we do go bankrupt, the club's remaining assets and those investors/creditors who have got money in the club will be stuck with the bill.

So why wouldn't he do it if his personal risk is zero and he has positioned himself to gain the control to syphon off money as he pleases? Because he is a lifelong BWFC fan who loves the club?

Key point here is that there's no real evidence either way to shed light on his true motives but he does have form which in my mind is sufficient reasonable doubt to maintain a healthy skepticism until the truth comes out.
He could just as well be telling the truth.

He bids what the club CA afford. Unfortunately that isn't a lot. At our end of transfers it's extremely difficult.

What you ascribe to Ken Anderson, could just as well be said about yhe late Phil Gartside. In fact this scenario always comes up when money is tight at the club. The Warburtons in the 70s we're always described as up to no good. Wanting the club to be bankrupt etc.

Why did both Ken Anderson and the Warburtons bother to rescue the club, since they were practically bankrupt when they took over? Is it because they wanted the real estate?  Don't forget loans were already taken out before Ken took over. Eddie Davies ensured that the no one who took the club on would make a profit on its bankruptcy by leaving a £15 million  loan as well as numerous other payments to him. Maybe you think Eddie and Ken are in it together?

If you look back far enough you'd find that in 2005 Eddie Davies was looking for investors / to sell the club. Unfortunately no one wants to buy into the club, they didn't then and they don't want to now. 

There's no land around the Macron to sell. So we're really not worth investing in. Sorry if that comes as a shock. In terms of land Wigan have the most to sell ( they have 5 car parks) that's good land to be developed. If I was an investor I'd look at Wigan. 

I've heard all these disaster theories before. It's the same spin. One day someone might be right but it's 1 in 100,000 chance and some anti Anderson's are getting their knickers in a twist.
Just to be clear, I cited Anderson's previous misdemeanours as an example of his character. Whether or not he is screwing the club - as he has other businesses - or not, nobody knows at this point so it is only speculation - could be true, might not be.

Obviously every one of us hopes that it's not true, but lying about investors as he has done isn't exactly making him any more believable and only serves to fuel suspicions about what his game really is, however I must reiterate that I don't know, you don't know and Sluffy certainly doesn't know.

And I'm certainly not getting my knickers in a twist when I point out the fact that I don't trust Anderson - although lots of other people, especially those who swallow his spin certainly seem to get aerated about it.

108 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Thu Jul 26 2018, 16:57

Nigelbwfc


David Lee
David Lee
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:One things for sure, Anderson will think twice before trying to pull a stunt like this again the damage could have been far worse.
Or for an owner who didn't want to spend any money, not paying the wages and bonuses  would be a good way to get a transfer embargo?

Why would the sole owner of a multi-million pound turnover business want to inflict devastating, detrimental actions to his own business whilst he is in the process of trying to sell it? 
Because there's a lot of money to be made in bankrupting a business if you can get away with it - or even if you can't - as the unpaid "suppliers", company assets and investors carry the cost. And shareholding is not the same as investing -  I am a 40% shareholder in 3 companies and I've never put a penny of my own money into any of them, but I do get the dividends.

The last time Anderson did it was for the purposes of syphoning off company money into his own personal accounts leading to the business being bled to death whilst he maintained a PR campaign saying everything was in hand to act as a smokescreen.

Last time he was caught out doing it (2005) when his company finally went tits up, Anderson was done for embezzlement of company funds, VAT irregularities and failing to cooperate with the receivers - all conducted behind a smokescreen of media spin.

Although he came out of it with a ban (9 years?) he made a personal fortune so I don't think the fate of the company, shareholders, the employees or the suppliers was of much concern to him as he sat in his fancy house in Switzerland telling himself what a naughty boy he had been.

No evidence either way to prove he's currently doing that to BWFC however putting in low bids that that don't have a chance of winning and then telling the fans "we tried - it was their fault" or suggesting that we'll get investment and then being unreasonable in the negotiations so they don't invest (and then telling the fans the potential investors were unreasonable/not fit etc) would be a good strategy for Anderson if he is up to his old tricks again. Aggressively putting the blame at the door of others is a central aspect of his MO. We'll find out more in the next few weeks and there's a a different thread for that. 

My concern is that whilst Anderson may control the shares, he has been very careful to keep his own money out of BWFC with the exception of bridging loans which he has already paid back to himself or has contractually prioritised for first repayment so his exposure is minimal and if we do go bankrupt, the club's remaining assets and those investors/creditors who have got money in the club will be stuck with the bill.

So why wouldn't he do it if his personal risk is zero and he has positioned himself to gain the control to syphon off money as he pleases? Because he is a lifelong BWFC fan who loves the club?

Key point here is that there's no real evidence either way to shed light on his true motives but he does have form which in my mind is sufficient reasonable doubt to maintain a healthy skepticism until the truth comes out.
He could just as well be telling the truth.

He bids what the club CA afford. Unfortunately that isn't a lot. At our end of transfers it's extremely difficult.

What you ascribe to Ken Anderson, could just as well be said about yhe late Phil Gartside. In fact this scenario always comes up when money is tight at the club. The Warburtons in the 70s we're always described as up to no good. Wanting the club to be bankrupt etc.

Why did both Ken Anderson and the Warburtons bother to rescue the club, since they were practically bankrupt when they took over? Is it because they wanted the real estate?  Don't forget loans were already taken out before Ken took over. Eddie Davies ensured that the no one who took the club on would make a profit on its bankruptcy by leaving a £15 million  loan as well as numerous other payments to him. Maybe you think Eddie and Ken are in it together?

If you look back far enough you'd find that in 2005 Eddie Davies was looking for investors / to sell the club. Unfortunately no one wants to buy into the club, they didn't then and they don't want to now. 

There's no land around the Macron to sell. So we're really not worth investing in. Sorry if that comes as a shock. In terms of land Wigan have the most to sell ( they have 5 car parks) that's good land to be developed. If I was an investor I'd look at Wigan. 

I've heard all these disaster theories before. It's the same spin. One day someone might be right but it's 1 in 100,000 chance and some anti Anderson's are getting their knickers in a twist.
Just to be clear, I cited Anderson's previous misdemeanours as an example of his character. Whether or not he is screwing the club - as he has other businesses - or not, nobody knows at this point so it is only speculation - could be true, might not be.

Obviously every one of us hopes that it's not true, but lying about investors as he has done isn't exactly making him any more believable and only serves to fuel suspicions about what his game really is, however I must reiterate that I don't know, you don't know and Sluffy certainly doesn't know.

And I'm certainly not getting my knickers in a twist when I point out the fact that I don't trust Anderson - although lots of other people, especially those who swallow his spin certainly seem to get aerated about it.

I'm not sure he's lying about investors. I'd imagine there's a lot of con men who phone the club up every month, who haven't got the resources.

I heard of one such gentleman who was trying to be part of the Dean Holdsworth bid. Unfortunately he's in jail now 

Then there's the fella whose trying to buy Blackpool, who was also sniffing around BWFC whilst Holdsworth was part owner. He doesn't seem to have the resources either 

So I can easily see why people a big noise and don't deliver. Should Anderson keep quiet about such bids? 

Don't forget that dubious billionaire who was going to buy the club, but didn't.He certainly hasn't come back.(Roger tamraz?)

Well, for me I like to hear about it and I kind of like the fact Anderson keeps us informed, disappointing though the news can be.

I do understand some would prefer it to be kept in house, so a chosen few can leak the information on sites such as this one or maybe to reluctant. Nicko. 

I'll bet Ken is actually fed up, that his time has been wasted by chancers.

109 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Thu Jul 26 2018, 22:06

observer


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:One things for sure, Anderson will think twice before trying to pull a stunt like this again the damage could have been far worse.
Or for an owner who didn't want to spend any money, not paying the wages and bonuses  would be a good way to get a transfer embargo?

Why would the sole owner of a multi-million pound turnover business want to inflict devastating, detrimental actions to his own business whilst he is in the process of trying to sell it? 
Because there's a lot of money to be made in bankrupting a business if you can get away with it - or even if you can't - as the unpaid "suppliers", company assets and investors carry the cost. And shareholding is not the same as investing -  I am a 40% shareholder in 3 companies and I've never put a penny of my own money into any of them, but I do get the dividends.

The last time Anderson did it was for the purposes of syphoning off company money into his own personal accounts leading to the business being bled to death whilst he maintained a PR campaign saying everything was in hand to act as a smokescreen.

Last time he was caught out doing it (2005) when his company finally went tits up, Anderson was done for embezzlement of company funds, VAT irregularities and failing to cooperate with the receivers - all conducted behind a smokescreen of media spin.

Although he came out of it with a ban (9 years?) he made a personal fortune so I don't think the fate of the company, shareholders, the employees or the suppliers was of much concern to him as he sat in his fancy house in Switzerland telling himself what a naughty boy he had been.

No evidence either way to prove he's currently doing that to BWFC however putting in low bids that that don't have a chance of winning and then telling the fans "we tried - it was their fault" or suggesting that we'll get investment and then being unreasonable in the negotiations so they don't invest (and then telling the fans the potential investors were unreasonable/not fit etc) would be a good strategy for Anderson if he is up to his old tricks again. Aggressively putting the blame at the door of others is a central aspect of his MO. We'll find out more in the next few weeks and there's a a different thread for that. 

My concern is that whilst Anderson may control the shares, he has been very careful to keep his own money out of BWFC with the exception of bridging loans which he has already paid back to himself or has contractually prioritised for first repayment so his exposure is minimal and if we do go bankrupt, the club's remaining assets and those investors/creditors who have got money in the club will be stuck with the bill.

So why wouldn't he do it if his personal risk is zero and he has positioned himself to gain the control to syphon off money as he pleases? Because he is a lifelong BWFC fan who loves the club?

Key point here is that there's no real evidence either way to shed light on his true motives but he does have form which in my mind is sufficient reasonable doubt to maintain a healthy skepticism until the truth comes out.
He could just as well be telling the truth.

He bids what the club CA afford. Unfortunately that isn't a lot. At our end of transfers it's extremely difficult.

What you ascribe to Ken Anderson, could just as well be said about yhe late Phil Gartside. In fact this scenario always comes up when money is tight at the club. The Warburtons in the 70s we're always described as up to no good. Wanting the club to be bankrupt etc.

Why did both Ken Anderson and the Warburtons bother to rescue the club, since they were practically bankrupt when they took over? Is it because they wanted the real estate?  Don't forget loans were already taken out before Ken took over. Eddie Davies ensured that the no one who took the club on would make a profit on its bankruptcy by leaving a £15 million  loan as well as numerous other payments to him. Maybe you think Eddie and Ken are in it together?

If you look back far enough you'd find that in 2005 Eddie Davies was looking for investors / to sell the club. Unfortunately no one wants to buy into the club, they didn't then and they don't want to now. 

There's no land around the Macron to sell. So we're really not worth investing in. Sorry if that comes as a shock. In terms of land Wigan have the most to sell ( they have 5 car parks) that's good land to be developed. If I was an investor I'd look at Wigan. 

I've heard all these disaster theories before. It's the same spin. One day someone might be right but it's 1 in 100,000 chance and some anti Anderson's are getting their knickers in a twist.
Just to be clear, I cited Anderson's previous misdemeanours as an example of his character. Whether or not he is screwing the club - as he has other businesses - or not, nobody knows at this point so it is only speculation - could be true, might not be.

Obviously every one of us hopes that it's not true, but lying about investors as he has done isn't exactly making him any more believable and only serves to fuel suspicions about what his game really is, however I must reiterate that I don't know, you don't know and Sluffy certainly doesn't know.

And I'm certainly not getting my knickers in a twist when I point out the fact that I don't trust Anderson - although lots of other people, especially those who swallow his spin certainly seem to get aerated about it.
Wander... You have every right to your opinion, especially when judged by past misdeeds. I, for one, have the opinion that KA is trying to make a go at it, and make his money from the sell-on... which is perfectly legal and even more profitable than the idea of bankrupting the club... an idea gleamed from the pages of "The Producers."  

From my perspective, and I have no real knowledge of KA's intentions, he is acting like a responsible businessman. He wants to run the club at a breakeven and won't overpay for players.  As much as I would like to see us advance to mid-table, losing the club to administration would be a lot worse.  If KA put money into the club or not is irrelevant to the issue.  He made a deal to save the club from Deano's bungling and then was saddled with debt he did not anticipate.  For better or worse, we were saved from administration, promoted on our first attempt back into the championship, and were saved from relegation by two goals a few minutes from time in our last game. KA paid no transfer fees or agent fees, and spent no cash, and we still survived.  All is good in the world.

Would KA slip back into a nefarious mode to steal the crown jewels from the club and leave us in administration?  I'm not certain if we have that much that is worth anything.  Is KA taking a page from BSA's book and trying to get some players who still have a year or two left in their careers?  If we can stay up, and not pay a king's ransom, it will be a good season.  Are we behind the proverbial eight-ball right now?  Probably so... but you would hope there was a Plan B and a Plan C after Charlie Wyke.  One million pounds sounds like a lot to me... especially when the knee injury is in play.  Whether someone has seen the MRI or not, knee injuries can be lengthy and we can't afford to lose what would be our most expensive player for 3-6 months.  

So is KA a good businessman?  A shrew investor?  A charlatan with a good PR front?  Not for us to decide now.  Time will tell.  For us, it is getting a striker on board, and getting a few wins in the first eleven games and not being at the bottom of the table for months.

In the long-run, it is better for everyone if KA would pay up and get a few decent players, and have us move up the table to the top six... and then sell-on to someone or a conglomerate with cash to spend.  Everyone wins in that scenario (hint-hint KA - splash a few quid around and get us to the top six! - but be wise about it at the same time)!

110 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Thu Jul 26 2018, 22:51

Leeds_Trotter

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:In the long-run, it is better for everyone if KA would pay up and get a few decent players, and have us move up the table to the top six... and then sell-on to someone or a conglomerate with cash to spend.  Everyone wins in that scenario (hint-hint KA - splash a few quid around and get us to the top six! - but be wise about it at the same time)!

If only it was that easy.

111 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Thu Jul 26 2018, 22:54

observer


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:In the long-run, it is better for everyone if KA would pay up and get a few decent players, and have us move up the table to the top six... and then sell-on to someone or a conglomerate with cash to spend.  Everyone wins in that scenario (hint-hint KA - splash a few quid around and get us to the top six! - but be wise about it at the same time)!

If only it was that easy.
I don't expect it LT... but I can hope!  Right now I would settle for anything but bottom three again.

112 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Fri Jul 27 2018, 14:46

luckyPeterpiper

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
The truth is that the days when a bargain could be found easily are long gone. The days when a manager could genuinely wheel and deal in the market the way we did in the nineties and noughties are over. The advent of MLS, China, Qatar and other foreign leagues willing to pay mega bucks for an aging pro who might raise a club's profile coupled with insane 200million pound plus fees in Europe have put an end to smaller clubs being able to compete at all much less effectively. When you see articles where a sixteen year old who's never had a pro contract is being valued at 20 or 30 million you know that the world's gone crazy in footballing terms at least.

Right now I think our best bet when it comes to a striker is probably going to be in the loan market, maybe someone from the Prem has a kid they want to get experience or someone like Villa or QPR need to get someone off the wage bill for a season to straighten up their FFP problems.

113 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Fri Jul 27 2018, 14:48

observer


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:The truth is that the days when a bargain could be found easily are long gone. The days when a manager could genuinely wheel and deal in the market the way we did in the nineties and noughties are over. The advent of MLS, China, Qatar and other foreign leagues willing to pay mega bucks for an aging pro who might raise a club's profile coupled with insane 200million pound plus fees in Europe have put an end to smaller clubs being able to compete at all much less effectively. When you see articles where a sixteen year old who's never had a pro contract is being valued at 20 or 30 million you know that the world's gone crazy in footballing terms at least.

Right now I think our best bet when it comes to a striker is probably going to be in the loan market, maybe someone from the Prem has a kid they want to get experience or someone like Villa or QPR need to get someone off the wage bill for a season to straighten up their FFP problems.
No argument on these points!

114 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Fri Jul 27 2018, 15:30

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:The truth is that the days when a bargain could be found easily are long gone. The days when a manager could genuinely wheel and deal in the market the way we did in the nineties and noughties are over. The advent of MLS, China, Qatar and other foreign leagues willing to pay mega bucks for an aging pro who might raise a club's profile coupled with insane 200million pound plus fees in Europe have put an end to smaller clubs being able to compete at all much less effectively. When you see articles where a sixteen year old who's never had a pro contract is being valued at 20 or 30 million you know that the world's gone crazy in footballing terms at least.

Right now I think our best bet when it comes to a striker is probably going to be in the loan market, maybe someone from the Prem has a kid they want to get experience or someone like Villa or QPR need to get someone off the wage bill for a season to straighten up their FFP problems.
No argument on these points!
Me neither, however under Anderson we are losing money hand over fist and his only "solution" is to pawn club assets, cut the wage bill and sell off our best players.
That is clearly unsustainable as sooner or later we will run out of assets to pawn and players to sell, so whichever way you dress it up, and whatever you choose to believe about the man, Anderson is failing.

There are ways out of this mess though. Attract new investors before the assets completely run out - he's not doing that. Invest in the squad to increase the chances of success on the pitch (which brings in the money from several sources) - he's not doing that either.

As far as I can tell, he's running the club into the ground.

115 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Fri Jul 27 2018, 15:40

luckyPeterpiper

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Lusty I won't repeat myself here, I've just posted my thoughts on most of what you've said on another thread. All I will reiterate is that to attract investment or new owners will be impossible unless we have balanced books and that right now involves a lot of pain given the mess we were in. Turning the corner was never going to happen overnight and if you factor in FFP it can't even be done that way anymore anyway. Just look at how QPR got clobbered today. They've lost 42 MILLION quid all told for breach of FFP and it's reportedly going to take them TEN YEARS to clear that debt alone. We can't even think about doing that.

116 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Fri Jul 27 2018, 16:01

terenceanne

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El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:The truth is that the days when a bargain could be found easily are long gone. The days when a manager could genuinely wheel and deal in the market the way we did in the nineties and noughties are over. The advent of MLS, China, Qatar and other foreign leagues willing to pay mega bucks for an aging pro who might raise a club's profile coupled with insane 200million pound plus fees in Europe have put an end to smaller clubs being able to compete at all much less effectively. When you see articles where a sixteen year old who's never had a pro contract is being valued at 20 or 30 million you know that the world's gone crazy in footballing terms at least.

Right now I think our best bet when it comes to a striker is probably going to be in the loan market, maybe someone from the Prem has a kid they want to get experience or someone like Villa or QPR need to get someone off the wage bill for a season to straighten up their FFP problems.
No argument on these points!
Me neither, however under Anderson we are losing money hand over fist and his only "solution" is to pawn club assets, cut the wage bill and sell off our best players.
That is clearly unsustainable as sooner or later we will run out of assets to pawn and players to sell, so whichever way you dress it up, and whatever you choose to believe about the man, Anderson is failing.

There are ways out of this mess though. Attract new investors before the assets completely run out - he's not doing that. Invest in the squad to increase the chances of success on the pitch (which brings in the money from several sources) - he's not doing that either.

As far as I can tell, he's running the club into the ground.
He's not running it into the ground.....It's already in the ground. Don't forget we were only Five minutes away from going out of business altogether. Apparently its still losing a certain amount per month.
The only people who would buy us now would be some billionaire types who want a new toy to play with. Financially we are not a good investment. That's the way it is.
Looking at the league table its hard to see three clubs who will be under us come the end of season. Its not two late if finances come in midway through the season so that's my hope for now.

117 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Fri Jul 27 2018, 16:19

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:All I will reiterate is that to attract investment or new owners will be impossible unless we have balanced books 
The point I'm tring to make is slightly different Peter. Balanced books means that there is sufficient value in the business to offset present and future commitments. If the business is carrying debt as BWFC is, it doesn't matter to an investor as long as the business has the means/assets to cover off the debts and the potential to make money going forward - all investors are interested in is ROI. Quickest way to balance the books is to go bankrupt - have nothing and owe nothing - but then there's nothing left for investors to invest in and that appears to be the way we're heading until Anderson finds a way to put value back into the business.

118 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Fri Jul 27 2018, 21:05

terenceanne

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El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:All I will reiterate is that to attract investment or new owners will be impossible unless we have balanced books 
The point I'm tring to make is slightly different Peter. Balanced books means that there is sufficient value in the business to offset present and future commitments. If the business is carrying debt as BWFC is, it doesn't matter to an investor as long as the business has the means/assets to cover off the debts and the potential to make money going forward - all investors are interested in is ROI. Quickest way to balance the books is to go bankrupt - have nothing and owe nothing - but then there's nothing left for investors to invest in and that appears to be the way we're heading until Anderson finds a way to put value back into the business.
Correct but I will argue that today football clubs would not be an attractive investment to anybody that cares about making a profit. I believe the owners and consortiums are only interested in the glory of seeing themselves on the tele, naming the stadium, getting an identity in the country or some other personal reasons. Eddie being an example of pumping in and losing millions because he was a BWFC fan.

119 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Sat Jul 28 2018, 01:50

luckyPeterpiper

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
just a short one lusty. Assume Ken HAS leveraged club assets to secure capital. It's not a problem assuming those loans are being properly serviced (ie repayments made on time) since the assets would only be at risk if they weren't. I suspect Ken may well have done this in order to pay off or reduce pre-existing debts that we CAN'T service from current revenue. I suspect any potential investor who knows his stuff would be able to see that in the books. Anyway, we clearly don't agree on Ken's motives for his actions but I think even you should be able to accept that our debts were out of control and we were heading for at least admin if not outright liquidation before he came in. At least now the costs are provably down and if we're a bit threadbare then so be it, we at least have a solid foundation on which to begin building.

As to Eddie, he was hardly a philanthropic saint, he took plenty of cash OUT of the club and there's still a clause that says if we get back into the Prem by around 2020 we have to give him 130 Million pounds more if the BN was right about the deal in which Ken and Dean took over. I think Ken gets a lot of unfair flack from you and others because he was never meant to be the sole owner, he was frankly misled by Dean Holdsworth and left holding the bag when it turned out Dean didn't have the wherewithal to keep his promises or pay off the loans he took (leveraged against club assets no less) to buy his part of the club. Ken's not only had crippling debts within the club to solve, he's had and still has the mess left by Blu Marble and Sportshield to fix. Maybe a slightly closer look in Dean's direction is in order if you want to talk about running a club into the ground mate.

120 Re: Time for Anderson to deliver on Sat Jul 28 2018, 11:21

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:just a short one lusty. Assume Ken HAS leveraged club assets to secure capital. It's not a problem assuming those loans are being properly serviced (ie repayments made on time) since the assets would only be at risk if they weren't. I suspect Ken may well have done this in order to pay off or reduce pre-existing debts that we CAN'T service from current revenue. I suspect any potential investor who knows his stuff would be able to see that in the books. Anyway, we clearly don't agree on Ken's motives for his actions but I think even you should be able to accept that our debts were out of control and we were heading for at least admin if not outright liquidation before he came in. At least now the costs are provably down and if we're a bit threadbare then so be it, we at least have a solid foundation on which to begin building.

I'm not going to go into ED's role based on unprovable accusations and the absence of evidence, however I do take issue with the highlighted sentence as we do not have a solid foundation, and what foundation we have is being eroded under Anderson. 

We are a loss making business and whichever way you stack it up, a failing business is forced to use up existing assets until it can cover costs out of profit instead. When they run out, the business is finished if it doesn't start making profit. Making profit without investment in the means to make profit is nigh impossible. Whilst we lose money, the cake can only get smaller.

IMO we would probably have survived and re-emerged if we had gone into administration instead of letting the fox into the hen-house - especially after ED wiped off 90% of the club's debt to ensure we didn't go into liquidation as the assets ED had paid for were, at the time, of greater value than the remaining debt.

IMO ED's contribution to BWFC in funding those assets is still the only thing that is keeping this club running, but one day, Anderson will have used that legacy up and they'll be gone - shortly followed by Anderson himself who will claim victory and move on to somewhere where the pickings are easier.

We'll see.

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