Bolton 3-1 Millwall

gloswhite wrote:I thought you said it was page 3 of the Sun, Nat ?

You have been removed from my Christmas card list.

I don't do topless, or at least I didn't before my op.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Whitesince63 wrote:I agree with 74 Nat I think you're being a bit hard on Hall

The 11 players picked get judged on the same criteria. I'm not going to say Hall had a good game just because he's 19. Is being 19 an excuse for losing control of the ball or passing to the opposition?

At 19 I was on the front cover of Vogue.

Fair point Nat but you have to give these youngsters a run some time. I mean we're not exactly blessed with quality in attack so using Hall is fine by me and I wish Freedman would do more of it. Hopefully our little cameo of Moritz will be followed by more of the same, heaven knows we need some creativity.

Bolton Wanderers recorded their first home win of the season with a 3-1 victory over Millwall at the Reebok Stadium.

Rob Hall had opened the scoring early on in the game, only to see his effort cancelled out by Jermaine Easter just before the half hour mark.

Not to be deterred however, the Whites hit back through Jermaine Beckford two minutes before the break before Andre Moritz made sure of the points with his first goal for the club a minute from time.

Manager Dougie Freedman made one change to the side that won at Bournemouth last time out, with Hall replacing David Ngog in the starting line-up.

There was also a place on the bench for young defender Oscar Threlkeld, whilst striker Craig Davies returned to the match day squad following a spell on the sidelines.

The start of the game was met with a torrential downpour, but the weather wasn’t to dampen Wanderers’ spirits as both Beckford and Hall tested David Forde in the Millwall goal inside the opening stages.

Having looked dangerous early on, it seemed only a matter of time before the deadlock was broken and the Whites did duly oblige in the fifth minute as Chung-Yong Lee pulled the ball back for the advancing Hall who calmly slotted home.

Following an emphatic start to proceedings the game appeared to drop in tempo somewhat with chances at a premium for both sides, but the visitors were gradually finding themselves with more possession after a barren opening period.

That possession however equated to very few clear cut opportunities, with Jimmy Abdou’s tame long range effort failing to test Andy Lonergan with 20 minutes gone.

Having failed to produce anything of note inside the opening third of the game, Millwall stunned the Reebok with 28 minutes gone as Easter found himself unmarked in the area and fired home past the Bolton keeper.

Despite falling behind, Wanderers appeared to have retaken the lead just a minute later as Beckford unleashed from an acute angle, but the striker’s effort hit the side netting with the majority of the ground already on their feet in celebration.

It was clear to see that the equaliser had breathed new life into a Millwall team that simply hadn’t looked at the races early on, with Nicky Bailey and Liam Trotter both enjoying chances to hand their side the lead as the half drew to its conclusion.

With the visitors looking the more likely to score, Wanderers were to hit them with a sucker punch with just two minutes left on the clock as Tim Ream played the ball into the feet of Beckford who calmly chipped the ball over Forde to send the Reebok into raptures and hand the Whites a half time lead.

As the second half got underway, it was evident that Wanderers weren’t going to rest on their laurels, with Hall’s lofty free-kick into the area ensuring that the Millwall defence were on their guard early on.

A hailstone storm however made playing conditions difficult, with visibility reduced and the pitch itself bearing the brunt of the downpour.

Once again, Millwall were looking threatening on the break with Easter loitering in and around the Bolton penalty area, but Wanderers were enjoying chances of their own including a curling effort from Alex Baptiste that had Forde back-peddling.

The Whites looked certain to extend their lead with 64 minutes gone as Chung-Yong played the ball into the feet of Beckford who rounded the Millwall keeper, but the striker somehow managed to put the ball into the side netting with the goal at his mercy.

The less than ideal conditions were also playing their part in the clash with Lonergan initially spilling Martyn Woolford’s cross before smothering the ball.

The introduction of former Wanderers loanee Liam Feeney appeared to work wonders for Millwall, with the winger proving himself to be a nuisance down the right flank and earning the visitors a number of corners in the process.

As the game entered its final ten minutes the Whites were living somewhat dangerously with the Lions breaking away on a number of occasions, but the attacks were quickly snuffed out by the Bolton defence.

The visitors proceeded to throw men forward in their droves as the clock ran down, but it was to be Wanderers’ afternoon as Andre Moritz made sure of the three points with just a minute to go with his first goal in Bolton colours.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

bwfc1874 wrote:That's one of the issues I do have with Dougie, too much future and not enough now. I think he's made some good signings in White, Wilkinson and Hall but they may or may not come good. I think he needs to concentrate on getting it right now because if he doesn't there may not be a future for him here!!

Fair point Nat but you have to give these youngsters a run some time. I mean we're not exactly blessed with quality in attack so using Hall is fine by me and I wish Freedman would do more of it.


These seem contradictory to me Whites, which do you mean?


I think he's getting the balance right at the moment, Wilkinson's getting experience and both Odelusi and Hall are picking up game time in the first team.

I think you're missing my point 74, if Freedman was signing youthful players to play now I'd have less of a problem with him than signing them then sending them out on loan. They may well prove themselves in a year or two but we need something now, not later. Hall was always signed as ready now so maybe he's not a good example. Odelusi has had so little game time your point is a weak one but at least he is an option I accept. Unfortunately, and here we'll disagree again, I think DF is failing to get the best from what he has purely down to his overly negative and constrained approach. He's not in my opinion making the best of what he has and as long as he continues on this path I genuinely think we'll continue to underperform.

But the point about youth team players is that they're not the finished article. You're investing in potential in the hope that they will improve to a point where they can impact the first team. 

Hall's on the brink and it seems Odelusi is too, they can't possibly be weak examples as they are the only examples at the moment. Wilkinson will benefit from first team football every week and I'd like to think White will get an opportunity too soon as well.

If Dougie was only buying youth players and neglecting the first team I'd understand your qualm but it's just good long term planning by him. Our academy needs to start producing players or all of the investment is a waste of time, Hall/Wilkinson/White seem to have improved what was a poor crop.

Obviously we disagree on Freedman getting the best out of the team, Im sure you put our recent upturn down to good fortune but I'm impressed with how we're looking at the moment. Let's wait and see how it pans out but Im sure we both hope the recovery continues.

Of course I hope the recovery continues, at least that's one thing we can definately agree on 74  but I can't unfortunately agree on progress being made. Yes recent results have improved, although draws against teams as poor as us and even wins against equally poor opposition still hasn't changed my opinion that the standard of football isn't where it should be given the players we have. Look, time will tell and maybe I'll have a serious amount of egg on my face in time but right now I'm still as doubtful of Dougie as i've ever been and nothing I've yet seen has changed that.

Whitesince63 wrote:Of course I hope the recovery continues, at least that's one thing we can definately agree on 74  but I can't unfortunately agree on progress being made. Yes recent results have improved, although draws against teams as poor as us and even wins against equally poor opposition still hasn't changed my opinion that the standard of football isn't where it should be given the players we have. Look, time will tell and maybe I'll have a serious amount of egg on my face in time but right now I'm still as doubtful of Dougie as i've ever been and nothing I've yet seen has changed that.

Morning white; I don't think anyone on this forum is convinced we have the new messiah in charge as yet BUT I think we can all agree that we are heading in a better direction now than we were a month or so ago. I personally am far from certain that Dougie is the man in the long term but the fact is we keep going on about where we think we should be given our supposed quality. In my humble opinion we're a good side, much better than our start suggested ON PAPER but what's on paper matters very little, it's results that count and until recently we weren't getting good results. 

It's like the furore some people raised after the Bournemouth game because we had less possession than them. Who cares? I mean really? As long as we are winning and climbing the table I don't give a stuff if the only time we touch the ball is when we kick off. I'd like to see us play flair football and be attack minded but we aren't good enough to do that every match or has everyone forgotten Owen Coyle's approach? 

What a side like us needs is a mixture of styles, attack where we can and defend where we must. The manager who can pull that off will be the one to take us forward in the long term. Is it Dougie? Not sure, in truth probably not but for now he's winning and to keep calling for him to be sacked when we haven't lost in seven and have won the last two on the trot is silly. 

As I said on a different thread I think we can only judge him once he's had one full season in charge.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Morning white; I don't think anyone on this forum is convinced we have the new messiah in charge as yet BUT I think we can all agree that we are heading in a better direction now than we were a month or so ago. I personally am far from certain that Dougie is the man in the long term but the fact is we keep going on about where we think we should be given our supposed quality. In my humble opinion we're a good side, much better than our start suggested ON PAPER but what's on paper matters very little, it's results that count and until recently we weren't getting good results. 

It's like the furore some people raised after the Bournemouth game because we had less possession than them. Who cares? I mean really? As long as we are winning and climbing the table I don't give a stuff if the only time we touch the ball is when we kick off. I'd like to see us play flair football and be attack minded but we aren't good enough to do that every match or has everyone forgotten Owen Coyle's approach? 

What a side like us needs is a mixture of styles, attack where we can and defend where we must. The manager who can pull that off will be the one to take us forward in the long term. Is it Dougie? Not sure, in truth probably not but for now he's winning and to keep calling for him to be sacked when we haven't lost in seven and have won the last two on the trot is silly. 

As I said on a different thread I think we can only judge him once he's had one full season in charge.

It's silly to call for the managers head after a few defeats, but isn't it just as silly to think things are going "in the right direction" after a couple of wins against mediocre opposition?

You admit yourself that you don't think Dougie's the man, and I think the majority of Bolton fans share that opinion - so the time to get shut is now, not in 3 months time when we're still in the bottom half and the transfer window is shut.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
It's silly to call for the managers head after a few defeats, but isn't it just as silly to think things are going "in the right direction" after a couple of wins against mediocre opposition?

You admit yourself that you don't think Dougie's the man, and I think the majority of Bolton fans share that opinion - so the time to get shut is now, not in 3 months time when we're still in the bottom half and the transfer window is shut.

Bringing a new manager in now would be counter productive. Look what happened at Wolves when their manager was stale. Any new manager would want his own backroom staff and his own players.

Surely the best time to take stock of any managerial appointment is after the last game of the season has taken place?

Natasha Whittam wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Morning white; I don't think anyone on this forum is convinced we have the new messiah in charge as yet BUT I think we can all agree that we are heading in a better direction now than we were a month or so ago. I personally am far from certain that Dougie is the man in the long term but the fact is we keep going on about where we think we should be given our supposed quality. In my humble opinion we're a good side, much better than our start suggested ON PAPER but what's on paper matters very little, it's results that count and until recently we weren't getting good results. 

It's like the furore some people raised after the Bournemouth game because we had less possession than them. Who cares? I mean really? As long as we are winning and climbing the table I don't give a stuff if the only time we touch the ball is when we kick off. I'd like to see us play flair football and be attack minded but we aren't good enough to do that every match or has everyone forgotten Owen Coyle's approach? 

What a side like us needs is a mixture of styles, attack where we can and defend where we must. The manager who can pull that off will be the one to take us forward in the long term. Is it Dougie? Not sure, in truth probably not but for now he's winning and to keep calling for him to be sacked when we haven't lost in seven and have won the last two on the trot is silly. 

As I said on a different thread I think we can only judge him once he's had one full season in charge.

It's silly to call for the managers head after a few defeats, but isn't it just as silly to think things are going "in the right direction" after a couple of wins against mediocre opposition?

You admit yourself that you don't think Dougie's the man, and I think the majority of Bolton fans share that opinion - so the time to get shut is now, not in 3 months time when we're still in the bottom half and the transfer window is shut.

Natasha I said I DOUBT that Dougie is the right man in the long term not that I believe or know he isn't. I would love to see him prove us all wrong for doubting him at all and to be honest the primary reason for my doubts remains the awful show against Ipswich the other week. I agree two wins on the trot has not made us world beaters or that Dougie's football is particularly exciting to watch. All I'm saying is that I feel it's wrong to write him off now and that we'll have a much clearer idea of where he is taking us at the end of this season. I want to know for sure if the late season run we had last term was a 'new manager bounce' or was he actually onto something? And who says we'll be in the bottom half in three months anyway? I don't claim to know the future so how can you? In all seriousness we clearly disagree on Dougie which is fine by me. I say he needs time to prove what he can do, you feel changing the manager a month before christmas is the way to go. All I would say in reply to that is that we tried a lot of chop and change through the mid-eighties and remember where we wound up? 

The facts are that we are currently on a seven match unbeaten run, we've won the last two games scoring five and conceding just one and that to say he's completely at fault when we lose or draw but it's nothing to do with him when we win is frankly hypocritical. I'd love to be able to say for certain he's a genius or a dork and we should act accordingly but I just don't KNOW because he has only had a bit less than half a season where our results and position can truly be attributed to him. On a different thread I posted that our woeful start may even turn out to be a blessing in disguise in the long run, especially since many teams have a 'blip' or a bad run somewhere in the season and frankly if ours is now out of the way and we keep climbing the table then come May it will be forgotten if we get promoted. I don't say or even predict that will happen but I do believe it is a real possibility especially given how tight this entire division is. 

I also ask who you'd replace him with? I know some would say anyone would be better but I disagree. Our last FOUR managers have all been a bit one track in their approach albeit in different ways and there are very few with the ability to think and adapt the way Bruce and Sam did. I just don't see any good reason to change the manager right now because there's no certainty we could do any better with someone else. If someone really amazing was available I might feel differently but as far as I know there isn't and even if there was would he want to come here anyway?