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My pro-Dougie stance...

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luckyPeterpiper
Boggersbelief
Keegan
terenceanne
Hipster_Nebula
White84
Lifeofriley
Angry Dad
doffcocker
Norpig
Natasha Whittam
Bolton Nuts
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1My pro-Dougie stance... Empty My pro-Dougie stance... Thu Jan 02 2014, 22:07

Bolton Nuts


Admin

When I said "best Bolton side I have seen in a few years" - I didn't mean specifically the Middlesbrough performance. I am thinking more under the surface. I believe that the foundations of a successful team are in place more than they were under Megson, Lee or Coyle.

It can be frustrating to watch at times and difficult to support all of the managers decisions - especially the ones which go against the grain but over all, in the end, I think we will come out fighting and technically better than we have seen in a long time.

I see passing sideways as a form of attacking. All of the top Premiership teams are experts at sideways passing for long periods.

https://boltonnuts.forumotion.co.uk

2My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Thu Jan 02 2014, 22:09

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Biggie wrote:When I said "best Bolton side I have seen in a few years" - I didn't mean specifically the Middlesbrough performance. I am thinking more under the surface. I believe that the foundations of a successful team are in place more than they were under Megson, Lee or Coyle.

It can be frustrating to watch at times and difficult to support all of the managers decisions - especially the ones which go against the grain but over all, in the end, I think we will come out fighting and technically better than we have seen in a long time.

I see passing sideways as a form of attacking. All of the top Premiership teams are experts at sideways passing for long periods.

A poster called Jay-jay used to post shite like this. Only better.

Biggie, I can only assume you are an armchair fan - no one paying £30 per game cares about what happens in one or two years time - they want entertaining now.

3My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Thu Jan 02 2014, 22:14

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

the trouble is we can't pass sideways, forwards or backwards for any length of time. The centre halves just welly it and the midfield in particular Spearing couldn't pass well if their life depended on it.

I saw better use of the ball by the bloke who nearly hit the flag in the half time entertainment than the shower we currently have playing in midfield

4My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Thu Jan 02 2014, 22:33

Bolton Nuts


Admin

Above are a couple of comments I made in other thread - now I will try to back them up a bit...

People say that this set of players should be higher and could be higher in the league than we currently are. And they are right. The team we currently have could be deployed in a way that got us more wins and thus more points. But is that really the only thing we should be considering. I think it would be short sighted to believe that points and league position should be our only measuring stick...

Why?

We probably have enough attacking talent/flair players to play in a more attacking way. We could play more long balls into the box. We could play two strikers and more flair midfield players. It might bring us results which look favourable and get us higher in the league - even into the play offs.

But consider the following simplified theory...

We put a target man up front, we drop the discipline and passing/possession approach. We attack at every opportunity and we pump all our free kicks long into the box. As a result, against most of the inferior teams our strikers profit and we score a few goals. Yes we climb the league table, but at what cost. Our players will have learned nothing - we won't have improved, technically. We will have just used the players at our disposal for short term gain against poor opposition. So we get a few more points and a slightly higher position in the league - but we are unlikely to really break into the auto promotion spots. Let's say we get in the play offs by chance and through hoofing the ball up the field against weak defences - and end up in the Prem.

Once in the prem we find ourselves ill equipped because our strikers can no longer out tussle the defenders like they did in the Championship, our wingers can no longer do anything really effective because the full backs are superior. We find the creative players in the middle who were so effective and could beat a man in the Championship are now losing the ball because the opposition teams contain Toure, Wilshere, Carrick etc. Our defenders can't cope because they are up against Suarez, Sturridge, Dzeko, Rooney suffering wave after wave of pressure because our other players can't keep hold of the ball. We resort to long balls from the back - gifting the ball to the other side because we don't know how to play from the back. We end up in another relegation battle and go down. More players leave. And before we know it we are back here again with another new manager with his own strange ideas...

The alternative is Dougie's way. Like I said above, all of the best teams in the Premiership can pass and retain possession. Arsenal pass backwards and sideways for 30 or more passes at a time before they decide the opening is there. They build attacks - they don't just hope they happen. And I believe that is something our players are learning how to do. But it starts with discipline throughout the team. Players need to know their positions, learn how to not rush things and waste the ball. Sometimes that means going sideways and backwards and starting again. We are in transition - and whilst it feels like slow going right now it's the right way to go in my opinion. We are not going to be Arsenal over night - our players have too many bad habits. But when they get the system nailed down just imagine seeing our players using flair and creativity to build chances from the back - instead of long goal kicks hoping for a flick on. Or imagine keeping the ball Man Utd for 5 minutes and frustrating them.

At the moment some of our attacking plays come to nothing or fizzle out - but the more we practice this way the better we will get. And in the long run we will be in a better position to compete at a higher level. But - the journey starts here! We are playing the long game.

https://boltonnuts.forumotion.co.uk

5My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Thu Jan 02 2014, 22:37

Bolton Nuts


Admin

Norpig wrote:the trouble is we can't pass sideways, forwards or backwards for any length of time. The centre halves just welly it and the midfield in particular Spearing couldn't pass well if their life depended on it.

I saw better use of the ball by the bloke who nearly hit the flag in the half time entertainment than the shower we currently have playing in midfield

We have had more possession and more consecutive and completed passes so far this season than we had in the whole of 2009-2010. You can't say our passing or possession is bad really. Our centre halve do welly it sometimes but only a fraction of the time compared with under other managers. We are now seeing short gola kicks, roll outs from the keeper, short free kicks, short throw ins. If you have a criticism about long aimless balls then it can't be levelled at our current manager.

https://boltonnuts.forumotion.co.uk

6My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Thu Jan 02 2014, 22:43

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

we would be found out in the Premiership whatever way we play, we don't have the money or resources to even mix it with mid table top flight teams any more.

We have traditionally been a yo-yo club between the two top divisions, would it be so bad to stumble into the premiership, pocket the 60+ million and come back down again? Looking at our current financial state i bet this is what Gartside hopes for too.

I admire your optimism, i really do but Freedman is not the man for this job and will not get us promoted. I hope i am wrong and will hold my hands up if he does turn it round but just can't see it happening

7My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Thu Jan 02 2014, 22:46

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Biggie wrote:
Norpig wrote:the trouble is we can't pass sideways, forwards or backwards for any length of time. The centre halves just welly it and the midfield in particular Spearing couldn't pass well if their life depended on it.

I saw better use of the ball by the bloke who nearly hit the flag in the half time entertainment than the shower we currently have playing in midfield

We have had more possession and more consecutive and completed passes so far this season than we had in the whole of 2009-2010. You can't say our passing or possession is bad really.  Our centre halve do welly it sometimes but only a fraction of the time compared with under other managers. We are now seeing short gola kicks, roll outs from the keeper, short free kicks, short throw ins. If you have a criticism about long aimless balls then it can't be levelled at our current manager.
 we must be watching different teams Biggie, the last game was a prime example, Lonergan kicked it long almost every time just to see it come straight back, the same goes for Knight and Mills. And yes i can say the passing is bad!

8My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Thu Jan 02 2014, 22:52

Bolton Nuts


Admin

Norpig wrote:
 we must be watching different teams Biggie, the last game was a prime example, Lonergan kicked it long almost every time just to see it come straight back, the same goes for Knight and Mills. And yes i can say the passing is bad!

You may say it but it doesn't make it true.

And re defenders and keepers - actually there was a bit more long ball in the last game than in other recent games. However, still nowhere near to the extent of previous managers. I was so disenchanted with the amount of long balls from goalkeepers and defenders, under our previous managers, that I was actually sad enough to start counting them (and later used opta stats to confirm my misery) - we went something like 4 games without a short goal kick being taken, with only 2 roll outs from the keeper. I found it tortuous and it was the absolute norm.

https://boltonnuts.forumotion.co.uk

9My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Thu Jan 02 2014, 22:53

Bolton Nuts


Admin

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Biggie wrote:When I said "best Bolton side I have seen in a few years" - I didn't mean specifically the Middlesbrough performance. I am thinking more under the surface. I believe that the foundations of a successful team are in place more than they were under Megson, Lee or Coyle.

It can be frustrating to watch at times and difficult to support all of the managers decisions - especially the ones which go against the grain but over all, in the end, I think we will come out fighting and technically better than we have seen in a long time.

I see passing sideways as a form of attacking. All of the top Premiership teams are experts at sideways passing for long periods.

A poster called Jay-jay used to post shite like this. Only better.

Biggie, I can only assume you are an armchair fan - no one paying £30 per game cares about what happens in one or two years time - they want entertaining now.

I find it more entertaining than under Coyle or Megson.

https://boltonnuts.forumotion.co.uk

10My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Thu Jan 02 2014, 22:56

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

i knew watching us was boring but counting the long balls deserves a special award for services above and beyond the call of duty  :number1:

11My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Thu Jan 02 2014, 22:57

Bolton Nuts


Admin

Norpig wrote:i knew watching us was boring but counting the long balls deserves a special award for services above and beyond the call of duty  :number1:

Thank you. I did it whilst bored in my mental hospital cell.

https://boltonnuts.forumotion.co.uk

12My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Thu Jan 02 2014, 22:57

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Biggie wrote:
Natasha Whittam wrote:
Biggie wrote:When I said "best Bolton side I have seen in a few years" - I didn't mean specifically the Middlesbrough performance. I am thinking more under the surface. I believe that the foundations of a successful team are in place more than they were under Megson, Lee or Coyle.

It can be frustrating to watch at times and difficult to support all of the managers decisions - especially the ones which go against the grain but over all, in the end, I think we will come out fighting and technically better than we have seen in a long time.

I see passing sideways as a form of attacking. All of the top Premiership teams are experts at sideways passing for long periods.

A poster called Jay-jay used to post shite like this. Only better.

Biggie, I can only assume you are an armchair fan - no one paying £30 per game cares about what happens in one or two years time - they want entertaining now.

I find it more entertaining than under Coyle or Megson.
the funny thing with Coyle was that he started off playing attractive football then bottled it when results turned and went back to route one

13My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Fri Jan 03 2014, 03:41

doffcocker

doffcocker
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

I don't share Biggie's confidence in Freedman's approach being a better long-term alternative to a more attacking style of play, but I understand the points he makes and credit to him for sticking his neck out.

14My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Fri Jan 03 2014, 03:58

Angry Dad

Angry Dad
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff

doffcocker wrote:I don't share Biggie's confidence in Freedman's approach being a better long-term alternative to a more attacking style of play, but I understand the points he makes and credit to him for sticking his neck out.
I agree,but I am wondering if he's not dougie in disguise.

15My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Fri Jan 03 2014, 09:31

Lifeofriley

Lifeofriley
Mario Jardel
Mario Jardel

I've got to agree with the guy. We'd all love the team to be raking in the results but it just doesn't work that way - especially in this league. Dougie is still trying to set a team of his own with his own mentality. Some of these players have been under 4 different 'regimes' now and we've all seen how slow their thinking processes are at times. And until we can ship the donkeys on big bucks i don't think we'll ever get the full Freedman show. Passing has improved though and the build up play is far more patient and has resulted in goals (despite the mrs' "this is shit and boring" argument). We all got fed up of the Big Sam 'Punt It' tactic... and this is nowhere near as bad as that! I've been more entertained so far in the Championship than I was in the last 4 years of the Premiership! So that's something!

16My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Fri Jan 03 2014, 09:42

Guest


Guest

For me, it's simple.

We are massively (and dangerously) in debt.

This year, under the new TV deal, the team which finishes bottom of the Prem gets over £60m in prize money. (Roughly a third of our debt.)

Despite all the re-structuring, re-financing, re-whatevering and other "bank speak", the BWFC Juggernaut is hurtling towards the precipice, with Gartside behind the wheel, fingers shoved firmly in his ears, shouting "Not listening ! Not listening...!" and if we're not careful, we're all going over the edge.

So what do we need to do?

Get back in the Prem as soon as possible, spend cock all and take the hand-outs on offer.

If we can scab a 17th place finish for 3 or 4 seasons, we will survive financially and get ourselves back into a position where we can think about re-building for the long-term.

The football will be dour shit, us fans will hate it and it will be a miserable period in Bolton's history.

But I really believe now that we've no choice.

And I finally now understand why Megson happened and what Gartside meant by "people who know football" and all that bollocks.

This was obviously the plan all along. Hang round the bottom third of the league indefinitely, waiting for the new TV deal and hope for the best.

And Megson fucked it up because he pissed the fans off with his attitude and comments and backed Gartside into a corner, wherein he had no alternative other than to sack him.

He then panicked and appointed Coyle, who then further compounded our problems by losing sight of the main objective, ie don't get fucking relegated, so Gartside really shit himself this time and gambled on Freedman, who he'd seen get Palace into a strong position without spending much cash.

Ideal on paper.

But 12 months on where are we?

Largely thanks to Dawson shoring up the defence and scoring some vital goals, we somehow managed to get to the brink of the play-offs, but then Dougie fucked this up by not going all out to batter Blackpool (who were there for the taking) at home.

We truly had nothing to lose in that game and the frustration inside the stadium was palpable by the end.

This season, the players are still trying to master Freedman's "containment football" and we look far from convincing.

We're into January, we're in 18th place and are currently averaging 0.88 points per game.

We are NOT going up this season.

The Freedman experiment is just the latest manifestation of Gartside's clueless leadership and it's time for change.

Stick Freedman on gardening leave (if we really can't afford to sack him), stick Lee and Phillips in charge (at no extra cost) and hope the players respond to the change positively and regain some confidence.

Take the rest of the season to do some proper home-work and find a manager capable of getting us back into the Prem at some point over the next couple of years without spending much money.

Someone experienced, who knows the basics and isn't another untried gamble.

Will this happen? Will it bollocks, because Gartside is too thick / arrogant to admit he's fucked it all up but it's what I believe we need to do.

17My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Fri Jan 03 2014, 10:59

White84


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

Mick McCarthy took a shit bottom of the leauge Ipswich team last year to top 6 or abouts now.he is from up North.Everyone shouted down the likes of McCarthy at the time but the proof of the pudding is in the eating.One thing I know Knightmare would never have got in the team with McCarthy in charge.             But as we are skint I'd fuck DF and his dad who stands on the touch line with him ( is Dougie his carer) bring in JP n LSL cos we are no better off than under Coyle points wise position wise.                                Dougie better blood some youngsters v Blackpool as this season is over.More draws than IKEA.

18My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Fri Jan 03 2014, 11:24

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Breadman wrote:For me, it's simple.

We are massively (and dangerously) in debt.

This year, under the new TV deal, the team which finishes bottom of the Prem gets over £60m in prize money. (Roughly a third of our debt.)

Despite all the re-structuring, re-financing, re-whatevering and other "bank speak", the BWFC Juggernaut is hurtling towards the precipice, with Gartside behind the wheel, fingers shoved firmly in his ears, shouting "Not listening ! Not listening...!" and if we're not careful, we're all going over the edge.

So what do we need to do?

Get back in the Prem as soon as possible, spend cock all and take the hand-outs on offer.

If we can scab a 17th place finish for 3 or 4 seasons, we will survive financially and get ourselves back into a position where we can think about re-building for the long-term.

The football will be dour shit, us fans will hate it and it will be a miserable period in Bolton's history.

But I really believe now that we've no choice.

And I finally now understand why Megson happened and what Gartside meant by "people who know football" and all that bollocks.

This was obviously the plan all along. Hang round the bottom third of the league indefinitely, waiting for the new TV deal and hope for the best.

And Megson fucked it up because he pissed the fans off with his attitude and comments and backed Gartside into a corner, wherein he had no alternative other than to sack him.

He then panicked and appointed Coyle, who then further compounded our problems by losing sight of the main objective, ie don't get fucking relegated, so Gartside really shit himself this time and gambled on Freedman, who he'd seen get Palace into a strong position without spending much cash.

Ideal on paper.

But 12 months on where are we?

Largely thanks to Dawson shoring up the defence and scoring some vital goals, we somehow managed to get to the brink of the play-offs, but then Dougie fucked this up by not going all out to batter Blackpool (who were there for the taking) at home.

We truly had nothing to lose in that game and the frustration inside the stadium was palpable by the end.

This season, the players are still trying to master Freedman's "containment football" and we look far from convincing.

We're into January, we're in 18th place and are currently averaging 0.88 points per game.

We are NOT going up this season.

The Freedman experiment is just the latest manifestation of Gartside's clueless leadership and it's time for change.

Stick Freedman on gardening leave (if we really can't afford to sack him), stick Lee and Phillips in charge (at no extra cost) and hope the players respond to the change positively and regain some confidence.

Take the rest of the season to do some proper home-work and find a manager capable of getting us back into the Prem at some point over the next couple of years without spending much money.

Someone experienced, who knows the basics and isn't another untried gamble.

Will this happen? Will it bollocks, because Gartside is too thick / arrogant to admit he's fucked it all up but it's what I believe we need to do.

Good post, fatty.

19My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Fri Jan 03 2014, 11:38

Guest


Guest

Cheers, slim.

See, I'm not a complete idiot.

20My pro-Dougie stance... Empty Re: My pro-Dougie stance... Fri Jan 03 2014, 13:42

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Biggie wrote:When I said "best Bolton side I have seen in a few years" - I didn't mean specifically the Middlesbrough performance. I am thinking more under the surface. I believe that the foundations of a successful team are in place more than they were under Megson, Lee or Coyle.

It can be frustrating to watch at times and difficult to support all of the managers decisions - especially the ones which go against the grain but over all, in the end, I think we will come out fighting and technically better than we have seen in a long time.

I see passing sideways as a form of attacking. All of the top Premiership teams are experts at sideways passing for long periods.

A poster called Jay-jay used to post shite like this. Only better.

Biggie, I can only assume you are an armchair fan - no one paying £30 per game cares about what happens in one or two years time - they want entertaining now.

take the mick out of JayJay23 but his Kevin Davies video was excellent and had a lot of salient points. Heavy breathing in the background was a bit off putting but the video was excellent.

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