Bolton Wanderers Fans Forum

You are not connected. Please login or register

Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » Thank God For The Tories

Thank God For The Tories

Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 4 of 5]

91 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Wed Mar 15 2017, 16:57

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Don't know about doing a fine job but they certainly are responsible for the difficult circumstances.

92 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Wed Mar 15 2017, 16:58

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:Don't know about doing a fine job but they certainly are responsible for the difficult circumstances.

They have been cleaning up the Labour mess for years now.

93 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Wed Mar 15 2017, 17:00

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Natasha Whittam wrote:
xmiles wrote:Don't know about doing a fine job but they certainly are responsible for the difficult circumstances.

They have been cleaning up the Labour mess for years now.

So how many years until they finish? They have been blaming Labour for 7 years now.

94 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Wed Mar 15 2017, 17:04

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:

So how many years until they finish? They have been blaming Labour for 7 years now.

At least another 7, maybe 8.

95 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Wed Mar 15 2017, 17:06

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Natasha Whittam wrote:
xmiles wrote:

So how many years until they finish? They have been blaming Labour for 7 years now.

At least another 7, maybe 8.


That I can believe. Laughing

96 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Thu Mar 16 2017, 09:08

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Another example of the Tories approach to honesty:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39289195

£70,000 is a drop in the ocean to a party funded by crooked millionaires and foreign nationals.

97 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Thu Mar 16 2017, 09:36

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Natasha Whittam wrote:The Tories are doing a fine job in difficult circumstances.

But they've achieved nothing as far as anyone can tell. OK I accept that they have maintained a strong media profile in the face of weak opposition but as far as actually "doing a job" goes they just haven't turned up or delivered on any of they measures they themselves targeted.

Under normal circumstances a party that achieves nothing and has an unelected leader with no mandate from the country would be easy meat for the opposition but these aren't normal circumstances and there is no opposition.

Maybe that's why they're doing nothing? If they aren't too controversial everyone will assume they's doing a good job and it will serve to maintain the status quo?

Meanwhile they have failed to deliver all but one of their manifesto pledges:

  • Extension of the right-to-buy scheme to housing association tenants in England
  • Plans to build 200,000 starter homes
  • Ensuring all people who work 30 hours per week on the minimum wage pay no income tax
  • Doubling free childcare allowance for three and four-year-olds to 30 hours
  • Increasing the inheritance tax threshold on family homes to £1m by 2017
  • No above-inflation rises in rail fares until 2020
  • An extra £8bn a year for the NHS by 2020
  • Opening 500 more free schools


None of this has even started although in April the inheritance tax threshhold will rise to £500k - half of what they promised to get elected.

The one pledge they did deliver? The EU referendum. The rest just looks like a pack of lies.

98 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Thu Mar 16 2017, 09:43

okocha

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
In response to xmiles' post above:

Is anyone really surprised that politicians continue to lie and cheat? 

The worst thing is that the Tories refused to provide relevant documentation/information to The Electoral Commission, so that a court order had to be sought (!!), which is why the investigation took so long to complete.

And now that they have been found guilty and the truth is out, they continue to say that they have complied fully with the Electoral Commission when it has been proved that that's completely untrue! For God's sake!

There is no honesty, decency and trust in politics and politicians. They are able to look straight into a camera and tell bare-faced lies without blinking.

And don't get me started on the House of Lords!!

It seems to me that there is only one party with principles. You'd be wrong if you are guessing Lab, Lib Dem or Ukip!

99 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Thu Mar 16 2017, 10:18

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
It's easy to have "principles" when not in power as they are never tested in the face of economic management so whilst I applaud the Greens for their panoply of causes celebres their case remains noble but unproven.

What would be an improvement is some transparency from those in power, so if they make promises in order to get elected and they don't deliver they should keep the public updated as to why they haven't or won't deliver. It may well be for a logical reason so they really shouldn't have anything to hide. Like what's happening about the funding for social care now they've backtracked on raising Class 4 for example - have they clarified that yet? I think everyone suspects that they are going to do another U turn from Hammond's budget but for now they seem to be keeping very quiet about it - as they are about their manifesto pledges.

100 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Thu Mar 16 2017, 10:34

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
I don't agree with all the policies of the Greens but I do respect their honesty. They are certainly more honest than the others.

Nobody can come close to the Tories for bare faced dishonesty however. Over £250,000 of fiddled expenses are apparently just an "administrative error" according to their latest statement.

101 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Thu Mar 16 2017, 11:31

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
This is why I'm so disillusioned with modern politics.

You can say what you want nowadays with apparent impunity even if it subsequently turns out that you were lying your head off.

Nobody is accountable anymore and it just gets brushed off and is acceptable.

And clowns like Trump and Farage know this and exploit it.

They literally just say whatever they think their core vote wants to here, even if it's obviously a load of made-up bullshit because they know they'll never be held fully accountable and will get away with it.

And it's going a stage further now.

In the past, if a politician got caught out telling a whopper, they were vilified in the press and had to accept the consequences.

However, nowadays we live in a world where all people like Trump have to do is wage a campaign against the "main stream media" and brand anything they don't like as "fake news" and they know their followers will accept this and all shout "Yeah! Dishonest media! Boo!"

And it's dangerous because the media is part of the accountability process and if it's no longer a useful tool in holding rogue politicians to account, they can pretty much do what they want with impunity.

And that's how dictatorships start.

102 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Thu Mar 16 2017, 12:37

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
I also believe that a lot of this dishonesty isn't seen as such. With the advent of social media, (and forums), everybody feels that what they say is the right approach, and they demand to be heard. The problem with this, is that no matter what anyone says, especially politicians and the press, there is always an army of posters who will agree, and will support the most outlandish of claims or stories. 
In this media world of numbers, hundreds of thousands can be picked up very easily, and can be used as justification for whatever the topic. The more this happens, the more confusing the picture, and the less likely we will have a satisfactory outcome. 
As a simple example, take the more strident posters on here, (we all have our moments), and multiply them by 500,000, and then try to imagine the outcome.

103 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Thu Mar 16 2017, 13:12

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
gloswhite wrote:I also believe that a lot of this dishonesty isn't seen as such. With the advent of social media, (and forums), everybody feels that what they say is the right approach, and they demand to be heard. The problem with this, is that no matter what anyone says, especially politicians and the press, there is always an army of posters who will agree, and will support the most outlandish of claims or stories. 
In this media world of numbers, hundreds of thousands can be picked up very easily, and can be used as justification for whatever the topic. The more this happens, the more confusing the picture, and the less likely we will have a satisfactory outcome. 

Totally agree with both you and Bread but what exacerbates the problem is that once a lie has been told, even if it is subsequently retracted, some of the mud sticks either because a) the lie is what people wanted to hear in the first place and they won't change their minds just because the liar fessed up or b) "there's no smoke without fire" where people form negative opinions despite the lack of evidence to support them.

When you add the lack of sanctions or punishments after a lie has been retracted and it's a no brainer tactic to employ every time because there are no bad consequences and a potentially huge upside.

The law needs to change.

104 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Thu Mar 16 2017, 14:54

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
wanderlust wrote:
gloswhite wrote:I also believe that a lot of this dishonesty isn't seen as such. With the advent of social media, (and forums), everybody feels that what they say is the right approach, and they demand to be heard. The problem with this, is that no matter what anyone says, especially politicians and the press, there is always an army of posters who will agree, and will support the most outlandish of claims or stories. 
In this media world of numbers, hundreds of thousands can be picked up very easily, and can be used as justification for whatever the topic. The more this happens, the more confusing the picture, and the less likely we will have a satisfactory outcome. 

Totally agree with both you and Bread but what exacerbates the problem is that once a lie has been told, even if it is subsequently retracted, some of the mud sticks either because a) the lie is what people wanted to hear in the first place and they won't change their minds just because the liar fessed up or b) "there's no smoke without fire" where people form negative opinions despite the lack of evidence to support them.

When you add the lack of sanctions or punishments after a lie has been retracted and it's a no brainer tactic to employ every time because there are no bad consequences and a potentially huge upside.

The law needs to change.
I agree, especially as the name and shame approach no longer works. Integrity is a commodity in very short supply.

105 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Fri Mar 17 2017, 14:13

okocha

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
The Conservatives promised, in their 2015 manifesto, a real-terms increase in the schools budget during this Parliament. The manifesto also said: "Under a future Conservative government, the amount of money following your child into school will be protected. As the number of pupils increases, so will the amount of money in our schools."
But despite widespread concern over funding pressures, there was no extra money earmarked for school revenue budgets in the Budget last week.



Yet another broken manifesto promise.

106 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Fri Mar 17 2017, 18:35

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
okocha wrote:The Conservatives promised, in their 2015 manifesto, a real-terms increase in the schools budget during this Parliament. The manifesto also said: "Under a future Conservative government, the amount of money following your child into school will be protected. As the number of pupils increases, so will the amount of money in our schools."
But despite widespread concern over funding pressures, there was no extra money earmarked for school revenue budgets in the Budget last week.



Yet another broken manifesto promise.
Which brings me back to the point that the electorate - as typified by Nat's comment - seems to think that the Government is doing a good job despite actually doing very little other than cutting budgets and services and overseeing the loss of worker's and individual rights gained in the EU.

It's as if the nation is sleepwalking through the whole experience and smiling as our quality of life continues to be eroded.

107 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Fri Mar 17 2017, 18:43

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
It doesn't help that almost all the press is very right wing and rarely criticise the Tories.

And of course there is no effective opposition. Thanks Jeremy.

108 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Fri Mar 17 2017, 19:27

okocha

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Do we really need HS 2 and Trident renewal at this particular point?? Enough money there to offset all the cuts and restore public services to the point where we can be proud of ourselves by making people's lives easier. Then set about collecting appropriate taxes from rich companies and individuals, and leave the poor and the JAMs to their meagre pleasures.
Only then should we be thinking about getting to Birmingham a bit quicker and taking it upon ourselves to be able to glory in the obscenity of weaponry which can blow others to kingdom come.

By the way (and before I forget it), the thick skin of George Osborne becomes even thicker as this total failure of a man senses no shame in making himself the most loathed figure in British society. Sitting in the first class section of a train without paying is one thing, but having numerous massively-paid jobs whilst pretending to be able to function as an MP is quite another!

109 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Fri Mar 17 2017, 23:09

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
okocha wrote:Do we really need HS 2 and Trident renewal at this particular point?? Enough money there to offset all the cuts and restore public services to the point where we can be proud of ourselves by making people's lives easier. Then set about collecting appropriate taxes from rich companies and individuals, and leave the poor and the JAMs to their meagre pleasures.
Only then should we be thinking about getting to Birmingham a bit quicker and taking it upon ourselves to be able to glory in the obscenity of weaponry which can blow others to kingdom come.


Much as I believe in capital investment I can't see that there is any rational reason for HS2. It will cost a fortune and save a few minutes on the journey. It makes no sense. I also doubt whether Trident renewal makes much sense. Exactly who are we deterring? We won't even be able to use it without seeking approval from America.

So yes okocha, get the rich to pay some tax and put the money into social care, education and the NHS. Now if we had an opposition ...

110 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Tue Mar 21 2017, 10:01

Bread2.0

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39337909

Up 0.5% in just one month.

Is it the 1970's again?

111 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Tue Mar 21 2017, 10:37

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Bread2.0 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39337909

Up 0.5% in just one month.

Is it the 1970's again?

And only going to get worse.

And some Tory MPs have threatened the BBC's future if they are not enthusiastic enough about brexit.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39335904

112 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Tue Mar 21 2017, 10:52

Natasha Whittam

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
You're right, inflation never went up before Brexit :facepalm:

113 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Tue Mar 21 2017, 14:46

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Natasha Whittam wrote:You're right, inflation never went up before Brexit :facepalm:
Not in recent years although I was kinda hoping for a decade or so of economic stability before the next market collapse.


The main point is that the Government got it wrong - substantially wrong. Hammond set a target of keeping inflationary rises to below 2% and used that to set his budget. We already know that the Tories have failed to deliver on all but one of their election promises (to have a referendum is the only one achieved) and now that inflation is rising more rapidly than the Tories expected their ability to stick to their budget will also be brought into question.

The thing is that most economists have been saying all along that Brexit will lead to high inflation, substantial price increases and salaries being frozen - in other words a reduction in the standard of living for working and middle class people. Whilst this short term blip in the inflationary increase rate can be as much ascribed to the lettuce crisis as Brexit, the economists are being proven right and we haven't even left the EU yet. Just keep an eye on the price of Twirls when we do finally leave.

There will be another collapse with or without Brexit, but the Tories are accelerating our headlong rush towards it and simultaneously dismantling the structures that have historically protected us from the worst of the effects.

The Tories are riding high by choosing to be seen to support populist culture which these days seems to have endorsed ignoring the "experts". Sure not everything mentioned in "Project Fear" has come true yet - it wouldn't have because we're still in the EU - but we are certainly heading in that direction and the much-derided "experts" are still very much on course for being right all along.

114 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Wed Mar 22 2017, 16:44

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
All the Tories ever say is that spending on Schools/NHS/social care etc is at "record levels" when what that actually means is serious cuts in real terms. Take education for example where despite the usual lie we are looking at cuts of 8% in real terms by 2020.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-39302746

115 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Wed Mar 22 2017, 23:08

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Bread2.0 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39337909

Up 0.5% in just one month.

Is it the 1970's again?

There are some people who won't be too worried though:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39350059

116 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Fri Mar 24 2017, 12:34

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Still far too early for an analysis of all things Brexit, but the Tories have an obligation to at least keep our economic growth on a par with the EU whilst we work towards getting out. As Eurozone growth nears a six year high with France and Germany especially booming at the moment will the Chancellor do anything to boost our competitiveness? 
In the scheme of things, their success is tempered by Greece's borrowing but even with that taken into consideration they're doing better than the Tories.

117 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Thu Mar 30 2017, 13:38

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

118 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Thu Mar 30 2017, 14:01

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
He's a doddering old fart, whose been out of touch with the public for many years, along with the other old duffer, Kenneth Clarke. The two of them have been living in their ivory towers for years, living high off the hog, and trying to play politics the 'old fashioned' way, i.e. behind closed doors, with friends.
He needs to realise that the world has not only changed, but its changing again, and will need a different type of politician. What help he thinks he can provide to his old supporters and cronies, I don't know.

119 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Thu Mar 30 2017, 21:27

wessy

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
If Brexit goes Tits up then the demise of this country will make this Tory government culpable, not only did Cameron offer a referendum purely to appease his back benchers (because he thought it was a win win) he risked the future of the country for party political gain, unforgivable.

IF Scotland breaks away and the UK breaks up, then the Tory government will forever be the party that broke up the union. 

We will then truly be little Englanders and all those who want to put the GREAT back in Britain wont have a Great Britain to make great, just a small inward looking little England with its closed borders and not much else. So unless May pulls it off we are fooked. What a bloody mess.

120 Re: Thank God For The Tories on Thu Mar 30 2017, 22:47

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Doubly fucked if the Scots get independence because we will have a permanent Tory government even if Labour get rid of that useless gimp Corbyn.

View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 4 of 5]

Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum