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Donald Trump for President of the USA

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211Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sat Nov 05 2016, 15:42

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
bwfc1874 wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:As you will be aware, the candidates are only allowed a certain amount of funds to campaign, (which usually gets worked around). However,  it is 'rumoured' that Clintons campaign is drawing funds from the Clinton Foundation, which allows her to pull in all sorts of backing, including the majority of the media organisations. 

Although the Clinton foundation is certainly shady, have you looked into Trump's namesake charity at all? He too is under investigation, for essentially using the charity as a tax evasion device, and spending donations rather than giving them to charity (one of which included the sale of a $20,000 portrait of Donald himself).

@gloswhite wrote:sOne argument levelled against the foundation is that both her and Bill, over the years, have done 'favours' for certain people, criminals included, who then make donations to the foundation. This includes presidential pardons for people who are convicted criminals/drug dealers. As a matter of interest, their personal fortune, (can't remember exactly), went from aproximately 12m dollars to something like 45m dollars (all figures approximate), during his presidency, and her Senatorship. My understanding is that the Clinton Foundation is now under investigation.

This is where I start to think your Republican friends might have been misled, there's no evidence to suggest criminals and drug dealers have received presidential pardons off the back of donations, this is classic Republican conspiracy theory. Obama has started to undo the damaging effects of Reagan's war on drugs by offering presidential pardons to detainees who have spent most of their lives in prison for relatively minor drug offences. Republicans hate this - firstly it's Obama doing it, secondly it's undoing Reagan's work and thirdly it involves the word drugs. The policy is a necessity though, prisons are over crowded in the US as they are here and the so called 'war on drugs' has been a monumental failure, attitudes are changing towards how we approach drug crime in the West, long may that continue.

@gloswhite wrote:Poplicies include doing away with all fossil fuels, as well as fracking, which may sound good, but it immediately ruins the lives of many people. Rumour has it that she is building up her interests in alternative power systems.

These just don't sound good, these are good. America has finally started to come into line with the rest of the world (apart from Russia) in trying to reduce it's carbon emissions and doing something about climate change. 40% of American's still don't believe climate change is genuine, Fox News and the Repbulican party can take a big slice of the blame for that. Something has to be done before it's too late and radical policies to cut fossil fuels is essential, any rational person has to look at the scientific evidence and agree.



I'm not a fan of hers as I've said, but she's done three things well throughout her career, and that's championing gender equality from a position of power, push climate change reform and promote state healthcare. Three very important causes that 40 years ago when she began will largely have been laughed at, the way society is going now though she's clearly come out on the right side of history.

There are questions over Clinton yes. But Trump has had even more questions over him all of which have been emphatically answered, he's guilty as charged, and what's even worse that a man running for President could have got this far barely even mentioning policy.
I knew this would happen. The articles I was sent had names, examples, etc, but as there were so many, I binned them after I read them, otherwise I would be able to back up my comments with details.
I don't agree with your comments per se, although obviously I can't ignore some of the points you make, as you did with my Benghazi comments. 
The bottom line for me is that she has a proven poor record whilst in the employ of her country, showing poor decision making, and supported by a very large dose of dishonesty. An example being that she wants a no-fly zone over Aleppo, presumably policed by American planes. Everyone else says its too dangerous, as it will put American fighters in direct conflict with the Russians, and she's still saying it. She is more likely to start major conflicts than Trump, especially with such naive thinking.
Trump has pushed and bullied his way to where he is, and has some bad character flaws, but one thing he hasn't done is hide behind others when wasting resources, and making errors. Call it arrogance or stupidity, but he stands up to be counted.
Having said that, lets be honest, either choice is a liability.

212Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sat Nov 05 2016, 15:47

Guest


Guest
Sorry Glos id meant to say you're spot on about Benghazi. I don't know a huge amount about it but her deposition was pretty damming.

Can't agree about Trumo standing up to be counted, any chance of him revealing his tax returns? He claims he's under audit which has been disputed by the IRS anyway but also makes absolutely no sense as he could still reveal his tax returns. He hides behind blatant lies and continues to grow by feeding into the worst of American bigotry. Can't remember who said it before Brexit but the same applies to this election. Not every Trump supporters are racists, but all racists are Trump supporters.

213Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sat Nov 05 2016, 16:31

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
I think when it comes to money, people who work at their level know all the legal, and not so legal, methods of acquiring what they want, and how to keep the law at arms length. Its almost expected of them. This applies to the UK hierarchy as well, unfortunately. You may be right about his accountability, but I would say that his decisionss carried far less risk/cost to the country than Clinton's, yet she still made them.
To be honest, I'll be glad when its all over, but then we move on to where the President/Senate/Congress cannot agree anything, and you get instances (as happened during the Obama presidency) where all the public employees are sent home due to blocking of budgets. Also, with Clinton, you will get another 4 years, more or less, of the same poor administration as Obama, and I feel that the vast majority of problems we have nowadays, in the Middle East, are down to his ineffective foreign policy. (but thats another story)

214Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sat Nov 05 2016, 17:01

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@gloswhite wrote:... the same poor administration as Obama, and I feel that the vast majority of problems we have nowadays, in the Middle East, are down to his ineffective foreign policy.

I feel that you are seriously underestimating the damage Bush (and his poodle Blair) did.

215Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sat Nov 05 2016, 17:41

Guest


Guest
IWhat would you have had Obama do Glos? Results of occupying Middle Eastern countries haven't been great.

More to the point what exactly is Trumps plan? Aside from 'beat the heck out of ISIS' - which is not a plan.

216Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sat Nov 05 2016, 19:14

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
bwfc1874 wrote:More to the point what exactly is Trumps plan? Aside from 'beat the heck out of ISIS' - which is not a plan.

Of course it's a plan.

217Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sat Nov 05 2016, 23:03

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
Obama was weak in his policies, pulling out American support, and letting different factions step into the vacuum.  I don't think we need to go down this road, because if you can't see that his policies are poor, then you are deluding yourself. The Arabs are running riot amongst themselves, with no guidance, Putin is pushing more than he ever has, because he knows America is weak, and respect for America must be at an all-time low, or near to it. Their own infrastructure is looking pretty damaged, what with Obamacare, and the admittance of as many people as can get across the border. They're not illegals, but 'undocumented' citizens, who can claim all the benefits available to Americans. Its a mess over there, and Clinton intends to carry on in the same vein.

218Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sat Nov 05 2016, 23:12

Guest


Guest
All good Glos but you haven't answered the question, what should Obama have done? The chaos in the Middle East could quite as easily be blamed upon Bush's legacy.

Why exactly do the Arabs need to be controlled by the West as you suggest? Since Napoleon the same fuck up has been made whereby we try and impose our values on a region that does not care for them and to what end?

219Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 12:58

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
I didn't say the Arabs should be 'controlled' by anyone. 
America was the cushion between many of the factions, and with Obama's withdrawal and indecision, they started knocking lumps out of each other, very quickly degenerating to war. some people would look on the intervention by the West as a calming factor, but as we all know, no follow up, and a lack of foresight contributed greatly to the mess over there now. The withdrawal of the US has made it much worse, and it'll take generations until it is back to any form of normality. Running away won't help anyone.

220Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 14:52

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@gloswhite wrote:I didn't say the Arabs should be 'controlled' by anyone. 
America was the cushion between many of the factions, and with Obama's withdrawal and indecision, they started knocking lumps out of each other, very quickly degenerating to war. some people would look on the intervention by the West as a calming factor, but as we all know, no follow up, and a lack of foresight contributed greatly to the mess over there now. The withdrawal of the US has made it much worse, and it'll take generations until it is back to any form of normality. Running away won't help anyone.

So the attack on Iraq by Bush in 2003 was a "calming factor"? Shocked

221Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 15:25

Guest


Guest
The US withdrawal from Iraq helped provide the environment for ISIS to grow into, but it would be entirely false to suggest it as the sole reason. 

The withdrawal plan was initially put forward by Bush in 2007 - so the wheels were already in motion before Obama came in. And you have to remember that US public support for occupying Afghanistan and Iraq was at an all time low as the US were suffering their worst casualties and for what gain? They provided a real cushion for the warring factions as they were enemy number one.

222Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 15:54

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@xmiles wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:I didn't say the Arabs should be 'controlled' by anyone. 
America was the cushion between many of the factions, and with Obama's withdrawal and indecision, they started knocking lumps out of each other, very quickly degenerating to war. some people would look on the intervention by the West as a calming factor, but as we all know, no follow up, and a lack of foresight contributed greatly to the mess over there now. The withdrawal of the US has made it much worse, and it'll take generations until it is back to any form of normality. Running away won't help anyone.

So the attack on Iraq by Bush in 2003 was a "calming factor"? Shocked
No, of course not, but it was seen at the time, I believe, as a way of heading off even more dire problems. However, it was short sighted, and had no follow-up plan, and it all went to rat shit. (It didn't help that the Americans insisted that only their companies could bid for the rebuilding of the infrastructure, which introduced even more delays).

223Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 16:07

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
bwfc1874 wrote:The US withdrawal from Iraq helped provide the environment for ISIS to grow into, but it would be entirely false to suggest it as the sole reason. 

The withdrawal plan was initially put forward by Bush in 2007 - so the wheels were already in motion before Obama came in. And you have to remember that US public support for occupying Afghanistan and Iraq was at an all time low as the US were suffering their worst casualties and for what gain? They provided a real cushion for the warring factions as they were enemy number one.
Agree completely. However, taking on the role as the World's policeman, and then ducking out of your responsibilities, to leave thousands to die, is not the way to do it. Its taken America a long time to learn that wars aren't played like computer games, and that casualties are real. When you're the most powerful nation on the planet, you cannot just walk away once you have committed. This is what I believe Obama has done.

224Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 17:17

Guest


Guest
Maybe true with hindsight, but the point is where would we be now with President Trump in the hot seat? What will the big decisions be over the next 4 years? If he plans on being as aggressive as he's making out war with Russia in Syria suddenly becomes realistic. 

I just don't see how any sensible person could vote for somebody who has next to no serious policies and has been proven to be totally detached from reality on multiple occasions.

225Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 17:25

Bread2.0

Bread2.0
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
The bit that's troubling me a bit in all this (apart from the obvious possibility of Trump pulling it off) is the number of Democratic Party supporters who appear to be genuinely agonising over whether or not they should turn out and vote for Clinton because of their mistrust of her.

If I was a Democrat voter in the States, I'd vote for a bag of fetid vomit if it was the only alternative to a dangerous idiot like Trump.

Hillbillies voting for Trump aren't the problem in all this, it's the Democrats who won't vote for Clinton that are the problem.

226Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 17:32

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
I genuinely believe Trump didn't expect to win the nomination, which will account for all his bluff and bluster in the early part of his campaign. It was a bit like a rich man's toy to him, (I believe somebody else also thought this earlier on, on this thread). However, as time has moved on, he's realised that a lot of what he's said he is now expected to deliver on, and you will have noticed that he's toned down most of his rhetoric. I believe he will be managed well to start with, (while he's in learn mode), and he will concentrate on internal matters mainly, such as 'draining the swamp', and reversing many of Obama's policies. I feel there's more room for change with Trump than there is with Clinton, especially as she had been endorsed by such luminaries as the current president, his wife, Jay Z, Beyonce, and the flawless Bill Clinton  Very Happy

227Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 17:33

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@Bread2.0 wrote:The bit that's troubling me a bit in all this (apart from the obvious possibility of Trump pulling it off) is the number of Democratic Party supporters who appear to be genuinely agonising over whether or not they should turn out and vote for Clinton because of their mistrust of her.

If I was a Democrat voter in the States, I'd vote for a bag of fetid vomit if it was the only alternative to a dangerous idiot like Trump.

Hillbillies voting for Trump aren't the problem in all this, it's the Democrats who won't vote for Clinton that are the problem.

So what does that tell you ?

228Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 17:34

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Scary.

229Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 17:43

Guest


Guest
@gloswhite wrote:I feel there's more room for change with Trump than there is with Clinton, especially as she had been endorsed by such luminaries as the current president, his wife, Jay Z, Beyonce, and the flawless Bill Clinton  Very Happy

Whereas Trump's been endorsed by Sarah Palin, Tila Tequila and Mike Tyson, half of his own party don't even back him.

What you've written below seems to suggest you're hoping most of what he's said isn't going to be put into action and that he'll be controlled by other (presumably more sensible) politicians anyway? Which begs the question what you'd actually be voting for then? – Luckily not an issue any of us need to think of!

230Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 17:45

Bread2.0

Bread2.0
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@gloswhite wrote:
@Bread2.0 wrote:The bit that's troubling me a bit in all this (apart from the obvious possibility of Trump pulling it off) is the number of Democratic Party supporters who appear to be genuinely agonising over whether or not they should turn out and vote for Clinton because of their mistrust of her.

If I was a Democrat voter in the States, I'd vote for a bag of fetid vomit if it was the only alternative to a dangerous idiot like Trump.

Hillbillies voting for Trump aren't the problem in all this, it's the Democrats who won't vote for Clinton that are the problem.

So what does that tell you ?

It tells me that there are far too many people in the States who need to accept the fact that she is by far the lesser of two evils and if they don't want a borderline psychopath like Trump in the White House, they need to stop dithering about and go and vote for her.

231Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 17:48

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
If he wins,what are the odds he's shot?

232Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 17:51

Bread2.0

Bread2.0
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I think there's more chance that if Clinton wins, one of his crazy bastard followers will take a pot shot at her.

Because, lest we forget, he's already given his tacit approval during one of his campaign speeches.

233Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 17:52

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
When it boils down to it, I would like to think that Trump will grow into the job, (nobody is a born president, other than Nat), and I feel that Clinton is already a dyed in the wool politician, who, no matter what is promised, will continue in the vein she has followed for 40 years.
Have to be honest, I'm getting tired of it all, but at least we have finally got past the 'he said, she said' phase, and I'll be interested to see how it all pans out.

234Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 17:53

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
Feelings are running so high on both sides, that it wouldn't surprise me to see quite a lot of unrest.

235Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 17:55

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Trump could always hide behind a baby,like the Christopher Walken movie.
Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Dead-zone-4



Last edited by boltonbonce on Sun Nov 06 2016, 17:57; edited 1 time in total

236Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 17:56

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
i think a lot depends what role/attitude |Trump takes if he is defeated

237Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 17:58

Bread2.0

Bread2.0
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Does the possibility of him becoming president not scare you a bit, Glos?

Because it scares the shit out of me.

He's a dangerous narcissist who is well known for reacting like a spoilt child and lashing out without thinking.

Do we really want someone like that in charge of the most powerful and well equipped army on the planet?

238Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 18:02

Guest


Guest
I've followed Trumps work for a good few years off the back of the Apprentice USA (great show) he's a tool, his behaviour, attitudes and principles are all absolutely moronic. But I never thought he'd get far enough for it to stop being funny and become dangerous. 

Safe to say he's reached that point now, just hope he doesn't get any further.

239Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 18:05

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
It does scare me a bit. However, we all know what he's like, and I'm hoping that the checks and balances I mentioned earlier will head off a lot of that.

This might surprise you, but its not that I want Trump to win. I want Clinton to lose. Its a very subtle difference I know, but I don't advocate the vast majority of Trumps views.

240Donald Trump for President of the USA - Page 8 Empty Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Nov 06 2016, 18:05

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
De Niro was spot on.

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