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Brexit negotiations

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gloswhite
Dunkels King
wanderlust
Reebok Trotter
Natasha Whittam
Angry Dad
Hipster_Nebula
Growler
wessy
Cajunboy
rammywhite
okocha
finlaymcdanger
Norpig
karlypants
luckyPeterpiper
Sluffy
21 posters

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571Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Fri Jan 11 2019, 16:52

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sluffy wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Hipster_Nebula wrote:
Norpig wrote:If millions of people (i presume leave voters) don't vote again in a second referendum then they will lose so it's in their best interests to vote surely?

It's in everyone's best interest not to vote for any party or person currently in the house of commons.
I sort of agree, but Brexit isn't a party issue. 
And if in a general election there were large scale abstentions, somebody would get elected anyway so it's not a viable strategy for change.

Of course it is a party issue!!!

We would even have had a referendum never mind Brexit if it wasn't for Cameron trying to squash the Euro sceptics inside his party.

Even then we wouldn't have got Brexit if Boris hadn't become the figure head of the Leave campaign because he thought he would play a bit of inter party politics by planning to lose the referendum but scoop the Eurosceptic vote within his party for a leadership bid.

As for Corbyn he's playing party politics by not fighting against Brexit but biding his time until after it and win the next General Election because the mood of the public as changed against it!

It's all to do with party politics - the vast majority of MP's voted Remain - yet they are kept in line with their party whips!

Even you should be able to see that?
So if half the Tories want in and the other half want out - as they do - what does that make the Tory party? 
Ditto Labour.
Euroseceptism is and always been a free vote issue.

Even you should be able to see that? Hang on...you probably can't.

572Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Fri Jan 11 2019, 16:53

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Labour members want to stay in the EU but is that the same as labour voters?

THe percentages are different but every survey undertaken shows most Labour voters are opposed to brexit. To quote a recent survey: "There was some difference between the views of Labour voters and members. While a parallel poll of 1,675 voters found 73% of the party’s supporters believed the Brexit decision was a mistake, for members that rises to 89%."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=17&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjfk-aul-bfAhU2TxUIHetQCaMQFjAQegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2F2019%2Fjan%2F02%2Fmost-labour-members-believe-corbyn-should-back-second-brexit-vote&usg=AOvVaw0PgLx9o7YYqmi-yQPAYrAK

573Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Fri Jan 11 2019, 16:57

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

[quote="wanderlust"
So if half the Tories want in and the other half want out - as they do - what does that make the Tory party? 
Ditto Labour.
Euroseceptism is and always been a free vote issue.
[/quote]

But there is a massive difference between Labour and Tory voters over brexit. Labour voters are overwhelmingly opposed to brexit. Tory voters are so keen on it that 76% of them want a no deal brexit!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj78ODfmObfAhX6QxUIHYYZDYwQFjADegQICRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2F2019%2Fjan%2F04%2Fmost-tory-members-would-choose-no-deal-over-may-brexit-plan&usg=AOvVaw19cMc56Op3XllYdt3vdsw8

574Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Jan 13 2019, 13:52

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Corbyn on Marr this morning. Reaffirming the labour position is to take all the benefits of the EU and none of the burdens.

Said the EU are "quite flexible" ha ha ha ha.

He won't be mocked though. He's not a Tory.

575Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Jan 13 2019, 14:05

Guest


Guest

Thought he came across very well, certainly appears a prime minister in waiting. Stephen Barclay was dead air, swerved every question.

576Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Jan 13 2019, 14:42

Dunkels King

Dunkels King
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Corbyn on Marr this morning. Reaffirming the labour position is to take all the benefits of the EU and none of the burdens.

Said the EU are "quite flexible" ha ha ha ha.

He won't be mocked though. He's not a Tory.

He is not electable. Some survey recently pointed out that something like 75 percent of Labour voters would vote to to remain in the EU and 90 percent of people who are Labour Party members would do the same if there was a second referendum.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/22/corbyn-under-pressure-from-labour-members-over-brexit

To go on record as saying that he would leave the EU but keep the benefits makes him look more stupid than Theresa May. What an absolute bunch of fucktards sit in the House of Commons. Look at us idiots. We are the ones who will be worse off. We are the ones who have to work now until we are 67 (or older) to get the money back that we paid in for 40 odd years. They destroy the Country and get to retire at 60.

577Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Jan 13 2019, 14:46

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

Corbyn is as bad as May. If they were both drowning and I could only save one I would save May.

578Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Jan 13 2019, 16:14

Guest


Guest

xmiles wrote:Corbyn is as bad as May. If they were both drowning and I could only save one I would save May.

Strange attitude, May the architect of the hostile environment who has created the shambles we are now in.

579Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Jan 13 2019, 16:27

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

T.R.O.Y wrote:
xmiles wrote:Corbyn is as bad as May. If they were both drowning and I could only save one I would save May.

Strange attitude, May the architect of the hostile environment who has created the shambles we are now in.

Corbyn is the bigger hypocrite.

580Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Jan 13 2019, 16:32

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

I would drown both fuckers.

581Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Jan 13 2019, 16:39

Guest


Guest

xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:
xmiles wrote:Corbyn is as bad as May. If they were both drowning and I could only save one I would save May.

Strange attitude, May the architect of the hostile environment who has created the shambles we are now in.

Corbyn is the bigger hypocrite.

Because of unfounded claims he secretly supports leave?

The policy was agreed at the Labour conference with Labour members. If Mays deal fails then they push a general election should that fail last resort is a second vote.

582Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Jan 13 2019, 17:24

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

The hostile environment started under labour.

Also Corbyn himself has spent years moaning about the EU. Now he loves it? Ok.

He's a pure opportunist. Sat his arse on the brexit fence for years to avoid causing problems in his deeply divided party.

583Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Jan 13 2019, 17:42

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

T.R.O.Y wrote:
xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:
xmiles wrote:Corbyn is as bad as May. If they were both drowning and I could only save one I would save May.

Strange attitude, May the architect of the hostile environment who has created the shambles we are now in.

Corbyn is the bigger hypocrite.

Because of unfounded claims he secretly supports leave?

The policy was agreed at the Labour conference with Labour members. If Mays deal fails then they push a general election should that fail last resort is a second vote.


Secretly supports leave? It's no secret. If Labour win a general election he will try to take us out of the EU. He has been saying it for years! This despite 71% of Labour voters and 88% of party members wanting to stay in the EU according to a recent poll.

Large numbers of potential Labour voters will not vote for Labour if Corbyn campaigns on a leave policy which is why I doubt Labour would win a general election.

584Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Jan 13 2019, 17:49

Guest


Guest

He campaigned to remain (far more prominently than May did I might add). The policy makes sense to me, you don’t best serve the country by ignoring 51% of them. He has a responsibility to enact Leave if he can as does every other party.

585Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Jan 13 2019, 17:59

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

T.R.O.Y wrote:He campaigned to remain (far more prominently than May did I might add). The policy makes sense to me, you don’t best serve the country by ignoring 51% of them. He has a responsibility to enact Leave if he can as does every other party.

No he didn't. He refused to co-operate with the official remain campaign and when he did make a speech it looked like he didn't mean it. I have seen more convincing messages delivered by hostages at gun point.

51% of the country didn't vote leave - barely 37% of the registered electorate did.

He has no "responsibility" to enact leave - he is just very keen to do so (hardly an unfounded claim).

Giving people a chance to vote when they know the terms that we are being offered is democratic not undemocratic. You should resist the temptation to buy into brexiteer framing.

586Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Jan 13 2019, 18:14

Guest


Guest

You can’t question the legitimacy of the vote and expect to be taken seriously. It happened, I wish it was the other result but we have to put up with it - that’s the way democracy goes.

587Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Jan 13 2019, 18:27

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

T.R.O.Y wrote:You can’t question the legitimacy of the vote and expect to be taken seriously.

No one does.

588Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Jan 13 2019, 18:41

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

T.R.O.Y wrote:You can’t question the legitimacy of the vote and expect to be taken seriously. It happened, I wish it was the other result but we have to put up with it - that’s the way democracy goes.

There is nothing undemocratic about giving people a vote.

589Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Jan 13 2019, 18:54

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

There is before attempting to implement the decision that was made.

Try that in a general election and I'm sure people would say that was "just more democracy."

If labour win the next election I'd definitely be after a people's vote to make absolutely sure we want labour.

590Brexit negotiations - Page 30 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Jan 13 2019, 18:55

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

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