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Club Future - Administration or bust?

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961Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Sun May 05 2019, 14:33

rogercpc


Nicky Hunt
Nicky Hunt
two years will soon pass, depends how you look at it.

962Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Sun May 05 2019, 14:40

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:two years will soon pass, depends how you look at it.
I'm running out of years. Shocked

963Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Sun May 05 2019, 15:49

rogercpc


Nicky Hunt
Nicky Hunt
I am of the persuasion that as you get older, time goes faster, or seems to.  For myself, 67, two years will whizz past.

964Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Sun May 05 2019, 15:52

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I am of the persuasion that as you get older, time goes faster, or seems to.  For myself, 67, two years will whizz past.
I agree. The climb to the top of the hill is a slow grind. When you reach the top they sit you on a tea tray, and you go hurtling down to the bottom.

965Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Sun May 05 2019, 15:56

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Very Happy

966Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Sun May 05 2019, 15:59

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I'm 71 in October and already hurtling down a bloody steep hill.

It's fucking scary,  Christmas is only weeks away now.

967Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Sun May 05 2019, 16:02

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I'm 71 in October and already hurtling down a bloody steep hill.

It's fucking scary,  Christmas is only weeks away now.
I'm taking monkey glands. There are drawbacks.

If I offer you any nuts, refuse them.

968Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Sun May 05 2019, 16:08

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I don't think its totally fair to punish the club with 12 points in this case. If new owners take over how is it their fault what the old owners did. Who is getting punished exactly.
That being said if enough actual cash is spent on players and management then that deficit can be overcome IMO......it's only league 1 for fooks sake.
Except it's not likely to be 12. 12 is for admin, another 8 points for not playing a game, makes that minus 20.

We will be lucky to stay in league 1 with no players. You now have to hope and pray someone has the funds, before administration, because -20 means relegation to league 2.

The EFL have discretion on what they do.

Blackpool didn't complete a game a season or so ago when the crowd invaded the pitch and had a sit down protest against their owner - they didn't get any deduction for that, neither did they get any points for going into receivership (when the winders judge put them into Admin)

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969Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Sun May 05 2019, 16:21

observer


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I don't think its totally fair to punish the club with 12 points in this case. If new owners take over how is it their fault what the old owners did. Who is getting punished exactly.
That being said if enough actual cash is spent on players and management then that deficit can be overcome IMO......it's only league 1 for fooks sake.
Except it's not likely to be 12. 12 is for admin, another 8 points for not playing a game, makes that minus 20.

We will be lucky to stay in league 1 with no players. You now have to hope and pray someone has the funds, before administration, because -20 means relegation to league 2.

The EFL have discretion on what they do.

Blackpool didn't complete a game a season or so ago when the crowd invaded the pitch and had a sit down protest against their owner - they didn't get any deduction for that, neither did they get any points for going into receivership (when the winders judge put them into Admin)

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The EFL should give us 12 points since they vetted DeanO and KA and passed them.  Our plight is in part because of their failure to do due diligence... especially in light of the past history and banning of KA.  Considering that, they should give us 20 points... total failure on their part.

970Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Sun May 05 2019, 16:22

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I don't think its totally fair to punish the club with 12 points in this case. If new owners take over how is it their fault what the old owners did. Who is getting punished exactly.
That being said if enough actual cash is spent on players and management then that deficit can be overcome IMO......it's only league 1 for fooks sake.
Except it's not likely to be 12. 12 is for admin, another 8 points for not playing a game, makes that minus 20.

We will be lucky to stay in league 1 with no players. You now have to hope and pray someone has the funds, before administration, because -20 means relegation to league 2.

The EFL have discretion on what they do.

Blackpool didn't complete a game a season or so ago when the crowd invaded the pitch and had a sit down protest against their owner - they didn't get any deduction for that, neither did they get any points for going into receivership (when the winders judge put them into Admin)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
That's very interesting, let's hope the EFL are just as lenient with Bolton.

971Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Sun May 05 2019, 16:34

observer


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
In fact, leagues have taken over financially troubled teams before... hockey, baseball and basketball teams have been run by the league until such time that a stable owner could be found.  In this vein, the EFL exasperated our situation by approving someone known to them who had been given a prior ban for dastardly deeds.  As the Guardian so aptly said:

In September 2005 he was disqualified from being a company director for eight years after his firm Professional Sports International Ltd, and seven other of his companies, went bust. The official Insolvency Service notice stated that Anderson had failed to ensure his companies paid VAT, then failed to cooperate with liquidators. At PSI, “Mr Anderson diverted/sought to divert PSI’s funds by depositing them into a personal bank account in his own name and invoicing in the name of another connected company.”


Now we can conclude, that the EFL was on notice from this previous action, that KA was not the sort of fellow who should take over a team.  It should also be noted that the EFL should have been aware of the usurious rate of interest on the BluMarble loan that DeanO took out.  Either or both should have disqualified them from taking over the franchise.

So whose fault is it?  Cassius:
"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
But in ourselves, that we are underlings."


The EFL has only to look into a mirror before deciding our fate.

972Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Tue May 07 2019, 23:15

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Laurence Bassini gives up chase for admin-bound Wanderers

IT’S administration or nothing for Wanderers on Wednesday after Laurence Bassini’s bid to buy the club finally ground to a halt.

The former Watford owner has tried in vain to secure extra financial backing in the last few days in order to satisfy the demands of the EFL.

Now Wanderers face a winding-up petition at the High Court from creditors including HMRC and sportswear firm Macron where, unless preventative measures are taken, they could be liquidated.
Bassini effectively gave up his chase tonight, telling Sky Sports: "I have tried to have conversations with HMRC and others in an attempt to prevent tomorrow's court proceedings going ahead and risking the club's future.

"Ken Anderson is not sticking to the agreed deal and my hands are tied as a result, it's very frustrating, I am trying to save this club but it looks increasingly like administration will happen".
Wanderers’ case will be heard after 10.30am, followed by another winding-up petition against the Bolton Whites Hotel.

Both actions could be nullified if the club goes into administration prior to the hearing or files a Notice of Intent to the court, although a judge could theoretically still decide to liquidate if they felt there was a better chance of creditors being paid.

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973Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Tue May 07 2019, 23:32

sunlight

sunlight
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
The Bolton players will all be starting their Summer jobs next week. Some of them have got through the phone interview for Tesco Mobile and have a fairly decent chance as long as they memorise some cliched sound-bytes. They still havent got paid and can only move the council tax forward a month, once.
A few of them have 4 different CV`s that they use for retail/warehouse/Admin or Labourer depending on the Job. Velas been complaining that it was horrendous doing all the dates for his career history and  stretching the end and start over the unemployed for 3 years gaps, he says employers want our Souls.

974Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Wed May 08 2019, 10:46

MartinBWFC

MartinBWFC
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Ken speaks out.

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975Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Wed May 08 2019, 14:21

Leeds_Trotter

Leeds_Trotter
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Can someone confirm who are the secured lenders?

976Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Wed May 08 2019, 14:43

MartinBWFC

MartinBWFC
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
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Simon Jordan

✔@Sjopinion10
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[ltr]Whilst sad to hear [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] going into administration ... I did tell say this weeks ago!This lies squarely with the current owner. frankly whilst tragic administration was the only answer ... it will now be bought out via a cva don’t be surprised if it’s Laurence Bassini[/ltr]
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977Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Wed May 08 2019, 14:44

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Hmm...it does make you wonder if this was the plan all along.

978Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Wed May 08 2019, 14:54

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Kenocchio is a secured creditor isn't he? He said as much when the whole Doidge issue was going on.

979Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Wed May 08 2019, 15:27

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Does anyone know how it will affect season tickets. I pay for mine with a roll on Direct Debit, so I'm assuming it'll roll on as usual to next season.
Or would administration be a problem?

980Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Wed May 08 2019, 15:36

rammywhite

rammywhite
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Does anyone know how it will affect season tickets. I pay for mine with a roll on Direct Debit, so I'm assuming it'll roll on as usual to next season.
Or would administration be a problem?

I imagine the bank will keep on paying it until either you stop it- or the bank itself stops paying it.
The appointment of an administrator shouldn't really affect it. He or she will prepare the business to either solve its problems and become a going concern and leave administration with new owners ( i.e. be sold out of administration) or if its a real basket case just wind it all up. The next couple of months will tell. However I think it will re-emerge as a going concern with all the creditors accepting a low payout. I imagine that by the end of June they'll be looking for season ticket sales again. Many of us pay in one lump sum and that's one of the big cash inflows in a short period of time. So its something that the administrator will be looking to get off the ground asap

981Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Wed May 08 2019, 15:37

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
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Simon Jordan

✔@Sjopinion10
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[ltr]Whilst sad to hear [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] going into administration ... I did tell say this weeks ago!This lies squarely with the current owner. frankly whilst tragic administration was the only answer ... it will now be bought out via a cva don’t be surprised if it’s Laurence Bassini[/ltr]


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Were not in administration but he's right about Bassini. He will again be the only interested party post admin.

982Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Wed May 08 2019, 15:47

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I have today learned that Moonshift putting the club in to admin does not result in the collection and transfer of collateral (shares) from KA. Therefore KA will still owe Moonshift £5M on the fixed charge.
The main issue for Moonshift is the funding of administration and I’m told this will be done by 
a) Reducing club outgoings by allowing players and staff to walk, or alternatively making them redundant upon appointment of administrators. 
b) Some funding provided by FV 
c) Club funds currently in place 
The reason that FV are considered to be favourites and are probably going to be the only bidder is because they have a deal   with PBP & Warburton that will see the novation of the debt obligation to FV. This reduces the costs of buying from admin by £8M. 
Worth noting though that FV fell at the same hurdle as Bassini and for the exact same reason- couldn’t provide EFL with proof of funds for ongoing support.





Copied from H on that other place. 

983Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Wed May 08 2019, 15:52

rammywhite

rammywhite
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
H? Have you been watching Line of Duty?

984Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Wed May 08 2019, 15:52

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Does anyone know how it will affect season tickets. I pay for mine with a roll on Direct Debit, so I'm assuming it'll roll on as usual to next season.
Or would administration be a problem?

I imagine the bank will keep on paying it until either you stop it- or the bank itself stops paying it.
The appointment of an administrator shouldn't really affect it. He or she will prepare the business to either solve its problems and become a going concern and leave administration with new owners ( i.e. be sold out of administration) or if its a real basket case just wind it all up. The next couple of months will tell. However I think it will re-emerge as a going concern with all the creditors accepting a low payout. I imagine that by the end of June they'll be looking for season ticket sales again. Many of us pay in one lump sum and that's one of the big cash inflows in a short period of time. So its something that the administrator will be looking to get off the ground asap
Thanks Rammy.

985Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Wed May 08 2019, 15:58

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:H? Have you been watching Line of Duty?
YES.


Not anymore though.

The last series was one too many for me.

986Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Wed May 08 2019, 19:03

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Can someone confirm who are the secured lenders?

Michael James £5.5m, Ken £5m and Warburton £2.5m.

Eddie left money in the club which as I understood it prevented asset stripping, as a floating charge - which I believe is the first priority creditor.

I'm sure Rammy will set me right if I've not understood this properly.

987Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Wed May 08 2019, 21:05

terenceanne

terenceanne
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I don't think its totally fair to punish the club with 12 points in this case. If new owners take over how is it their fault what the old owners did. Who is getting punished exactly.
That being said if enough actual cash is spent on players and management then that deficit can be overcome IMO......it's only league 1 for fooks sake.
Except it's not likely to be 12. 12 is for admin, another 8 points for not playing a game, makes that minus 20.

We will be lucky to stay in league 1 with no players. You now have to hope and pray someone has the funds, before administration, because -20 means relegation to league 2.

The EFL have discretion on what they do.

Blackpool didn't complete a game a season or so ago when the crowd invaded the pitch and had a sit down protest against their owner - they didn't get any deduction for that, neither did they get any points for going into receivership (when the winders judge put them into Admin)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
That's very interesting, let's hope the EFL are just as lenient with Bolton.
20 points off punishes the hard working folk of Bolton not the owners who are long gone with whatever they could pocket. It's just wrong in this case IMO.

988Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Wed May 08 2019, 21:44

rammywhite

rammywhite
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Can someone confirm who are the secured lenders?

Michael James £5.5m, Ken £5m and Warburton £2.5m.

Eddie left money in the club which as I understood it prevented asset stripping, as a floating charge - which I believe is the first priority creditor.

I'm sure Rammy will set me right if I've not understood this properly.

I've not had a chance to look at the Register of Charges but this sounds about right. However it wouldn't surprise me if the register wasn't up to date. All fixed and floating charges stay in place during Admin so the pre-preferential creditors ( the football creditors) will get paid first ( after the Administrators fees and any ongoing business expenses). If loans secured by fixed charges are not paid back , then the charge crystallises and the creditor can take possession of the asset and may be invited to do so. Then the floating (secondary) charges kick in and they will either be paid or will be offered any asset on which the charge is based- whether they really want it or not. A car park is worth having as you can build on it ,if local authority building regs allow it. But who would want a football stadium with a bankrupt hotel stitched on to one end?
Unsecured creditors will get what's left. It might be an offer of a certain amount in the £, or they might wait until Admin is finished and try for a larger amount. But almost certainly a Newco will be set up transferring any remaining assets but leaving the liabilities behind in a shell company-  so they're over a barrel to accept and then disappear with no further claim.
The shareholders typically will get nothing as they will remain as shareholders in the old company but their holdings will be worthless.  They may not get any shares in the Newco as these will go to the new owner (who hopefully isn't the old owner in different clothing)
Some creditors may be offered shares in the Newco in exchange for their debt- a debt for equity swap. But that gets more complicated
That's my understanding of the current insolvency rules.

989Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Wed May 08 2019, 22:22

Leeds_Trotter

Leeds_Trotter
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
So what will happen with our assets, are they to be sold off or if someone was to purchase the club in admin, could they then pay off the money owed and us keep the assets?

990Club Future - Administration or bust? - Page 33 Empty Re: Club Future - Administration or bust? on Thu May 09 2019, 10:48

y2johnny


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Sale sharks AND the rfl want the Macron 

True story

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