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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Bolton Wanderers Banter » Iles cosy chat with the ST.

Iles cosy chat with the ST.

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1Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Iles cosy chat with the ST. Mon May 13 2019, 19:52

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Iles blogging right now with four of the ST (strange their Chair is missing).

Wonder if he'll ask them any difficult questions?

I doubt it but we shall see.

Anyway -

Good evening folks. We've got three board members of the Bolton Wanderers Supporters' Trust, all ready to answer your questions.

Ian Bridge, Maggie Tetlow, Roger Allanson and Mike Smith are gathered around the table.  [Seems Iles can't count up to four then - Sluffy]

Readers have sent in a raft of questions over the last couple of days.  

Ideally, I want to stick to stuff that actually involves the trust. They are not really here to answer stuff about Ken Anderson.

Q - It has been suggested that the 'Fighting Fund' be used to fight the potential EFL sanctions. I assume this means they are confident of getting something overturned. Has this sort of challenge ever been made before? If not, then are they not gambling with a lot of fan's money.

IB: It is dependent on the findings of the independent committee. We'll review it when it happens.
RA: If there's a possibility of money being used for that purpose, we'll do it.
IB: It would only be in appeal. Only in that situation would we be able to do anything about it.
MS: We don't feel the EFL has treated Bolton very well.
IB: We'd like better due diligence, that is the bare minimum.

Q - With board elections coming up is there a plan to get a younger voice as part of it? I know they are looking to engage with the various blogs but have they been sounded out for a seat at the table?

MS - We've always tried. They don't want to spend the time.
IB - The answer is 'yes'. We have got some plans in place - a liaison group. We will be holding a meeting in the not too distant future.
MS - We want to engage with fans of any age.
MT: As a result of the open meeting we invited people to get involved. We got a good response. We are not excluding anyone.  
RA: We'd love to get down with the kids.
MS: If you want to get involved, please email.
IB: We do want to get younger people engaged, that is for certain.

Q - Do you intend to get a representative of the ST on the board, and if so how do you intend to do this?

RA: Our plan is to engage with high net worths and creditors with a view to them working with us. We can use the vehicle of the CIC.
IB: To have representation at that level would be the plan.
MS: It's the core aim of a supporters' trust is to do exactly that.
MT: It's to get a greater say for the ordinary fan. That's exactly what we are. We're just supporters.

Q - What will happen with the trusts involvement now club is in admin?

IB: The first step is to engage with the administrator. We have already made contact and had some discussions.
MT: Mike Dyer, as people know, has been appointed and has been actioning things on our behalf.

Q - Why did they not back the protest? They have previously voiced their views on Ken Anderson's reign, yet distanced themselves from the fan's protest. This reflects poorly on them especially when you consider that Blackpool's ST helped organise their protests.

IB: it's an urban myth that we didn't back it. If you read our post on the website, we understood, we accepted it was going ahead, but we asked for it to happen safely.
MT: We are there as a professional organisation trying to do things in a structured way. Protests are not really what you do as a trust - we want dialogue with new owners.
MT: We didn't have any control over the outcome of a protest. As a professional organisation we couldn't have risked that.

Q - Will the Trust look to buy the club outright at all or even look to buy a small share and a seat on the board with any new incoming owner?

MS: We are looking to engage with other high net worths and people. It will be a team effort.
MT: In an ideal world we'd be able to raise enough money to do that. But we're working towards getting the biggest possible share for the fans. The ultimate goal is the safety and stability of the club.

Q - Now that we've entered admin - our club has the opportunity to get back on an even keel if a buyer with pots of money comes forwards....... is the supporters trust potential bid for the club going to prevent a wealthy buyer from buying us ?

Q - does any of the trust have experience in making minority investments?

RA: We have got access to the necessary expertise.

Q - Do the trust have any indication of who will attempt to buy the club in admin ? Do the trust have any info on the alleged Chinese consortium interested in the club ? How do the trust propose to have a bigger voice at the table with a prospective new owner ?

IB: We don't have inside information.
MT: It's safe to assume that anyone buying it solvently would also in admin.
MS: We want to engage with any owner, whoever it is.
RA: Some of those who have been interested have seen it as a positive to engage with the trust. Most have wanted to talk to us.
MT: People don't want to make the same mistakes that Ken Anderson made. Even from a PR point of view it makes sense to engage with the trust.

Q - At the very first Trust meeting in 2016 our guests, the Trust Directors from Portsmouth FC encouraged our newly formed Trust to get high net wealth potential investors on board. Why has this not happened?

MS - They are coming back now.
MT - The club is officially in distress now, so they have reconnected with us.
IB - To date, it has all been hypothetical. Now it is practical. Contact with these people has been maintained throughout.

Q - How many members is there an how was all the £10 memberships spent?. why when staff are being unpaid did it take you so long to set up a donation page? ..who are the high net individuals you spoke about an how much have they committed?. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] asked many times with no answers

MS - Three thousand one hundred and something.
MS - There are about 6,500 associate members. [That's just bollocks - apparently they got 6,500 pledges but only half turned up with their £10 yet they still try to say they have the 3,400 as 'associate' members - fake news - Sluffy]
MS - We haven't spent the memberships.
IB - You can see that in the latest accounts.
MT - Hosting/running the website and admin cost money but it's all there for people to find.
IB - We didn't set up a donation page.
MS - We did discuss the idea with heads of dept at Bolton Wanderers but they declined. We are happy to speak to them again to discuss what we can offer.

Q - I applaud the Trust but please formulate a comms strategy. Social media and constantly checking BN is tiresome in light of recent events. Please email the members with statements/news etc or at least ask for preferences. Thank You

MT: We do email members. We do interviews and try to cover all bases.
IB: If anyone feels they are not receiving emails please contact us on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Q - What lessons have you learned from the Anderson era re the role and impact of the Trust - and what do you think you will do differently (if anything) once the new regime is in place?

IB - I think we faced an insurmountable problem. Other trusts are engaging in exactly the same way but their owners are reaching out and embracing the benefits a trust can bring. We were hitting our head against a brick wall from day one.
There are lessons to be learned about communicating in difficult circumstances.
IB - PR and social media are areas we can improve, for sure.

Q - Why don't the trust ever consult its members before taking decisions on their behalf?

MS - We are mandated to do certain things.
RA - The aim of the trust is consistently the same as the fans.
IB - If you look at the model rules.


HALF TIME - PART TWO TO FOLLOW!

2Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Mon May 13 2019, 20:16

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
PART TWO -

Q - How about the Forest Green money?

MT - We could not possibly put every decision we make to the members. We'd never get anything done.
IB - We are aware of comments about the FGR money. It wasn't money solicited by the trust - it was donated from an external source without encouragement. We were asked to send a board member to receive it, which we thought was inappropriate. [Fair play then - Sluffy]
When the money came in we tried to find a worthy cause.  
MS - The assistant manager contacted us and asked if there was anything we could help him with on the Stephen Darby foundation.

Q - If a credible party launch a bid, will the trust stand aside and let them proceed in the interests of expediency and to quickly address the hardship of those affected directly by the financial situation?

MT - If there is a credible plan for the security and stability of the club, we would not stand in their way.

Q - Can you ask when the elections are .also when they are looking at the forums with the bloggers? And how do people get involved with committees?

IB - Elections will be in July and a timetable will be announced shortly. Because of the current circumstances things have been pushed back a bit.
MT: As regards people getting involved - we have asked people consistently over the last three years and had a poor response but since the open meeting it has been very encouraging.
MT: We are planning to hold an open meeting for those who are keen. The current admin situation means it's a bit fluid but bear with us - we'll get to it asap. We want people to get involved.

Q - It's a long to do list, but what should the initial priorities be to bring stability back to the club?

IB - You have to start to live within your means.
MT - Clear out, start again and build with a proper long-term plan.

Q - Biggest question i have to them is why do they not answer questions on social media that people that doubt them ask? Surely a good way to gain members would be to answer these questions the doubters have instead of arguing with them.

MS - If you have a question for the board, please email. We sometimes see questions on social media, sometimes we miss them.
IB: We urge anyone to email us on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Q - Did the ST expect to raise the full £25k from the crowdfunding?

MS - The reason we put £25k target was that when you open a JustGiving page you have to put a limit.
RA - We have been delighted with the response. [That's a NO then - why can't they just say it? - Sluffy]

Having been a big critic of the trust ..including voicing my opinion at the open meeting I have to say that I feel the trust is moving in the correct direction more needs to be done but I feel that the trust is listening and improving [Ah the 'planted' question - did you spot it too? - Sluffy]

Obviously they were even too embarrassed themselves because no answer was given and the next question shown instead - Sluffy]

Q - What advice is there for people like me who have a Direct Debit for their season ticket which is still operative?
Also what advice is there for the 5% or so of us Shareholders in Burnden Leisure.

IB - Great question. We will look at this on behalf of the season ticket holders and examine what options are available.
IB - We have had a lot of shareholders contact us with offers of assistance. [I think you will find they've lost their shares with an Administrator now having been appointed - Sluffy]
IB - It's something we are defintiely aware of and this will undoubtedly be a discussion point for any talks we have with the administrator.

Q - Any further clarity for members and BWFC fans in general regarding the investigation that they did a couple months ago? Would go a long way to building trust and credibility with fans... [Allansongate! - Sluffy]

RA: My name is over the door and therefore I am in charge. You assume people do their jobs and do them right. I subsequently discovered they had not. Nobody lost out, there was no dishonesty.
We didn't write the figures out in the right columns but still saved £650k for our clients.
I got my punishment. I have said I will put myself up for election. [no mention of his previous 'troubles' though! - Sluffy]
IB: The trust chairman - a practising barrister - led the investigation and it was collectively decided there was no need for further investigation.
IB: It's also fair to say that at all times the investigation was carried out in full accordance with the regulations we abide by. [Anybody read the liquidators report on one of his own companies? - Sluffy]

Q - Where does my money go and when will someone younger than 50 be allowed on the board. No voice of the younger fan and no one able to embrace social media/modern supporters.

IB - As mentioned previously, we're aware of the discrepancy in demographic and we're doing our best to address it.
MT - Someone can stand for election.
MS - The trust is only going to be successful with more members - it's strength in numbers.
RA - We respect everyone's view but we all want the same thing - a successful BWFC.
MS - The trust isn't just us - it's us all. Get involved if you want to help change things.
IB - There are no ulterior motives. There are no ego trips. We are fans for the fans.
MS - We didn't know each other before we started - the only thing we have in common is that we're mad Bolton Wanderers fans.
IB - The next step is engaging with the administrator. As things stand the hotel has not had one appointed, so we're dealing with an ever-changing situation.
MS - When we have seen him, we'll put a message out to members. We're batting on your behalf.
MT - There is an element of confidentiality but we'll try and keep everyone as informed as possible.

Final whistle.

What do people think?

Nothing new to me - same as always.

I predict once again there will be no interest in the ST elections and the same old clique will be returned unopposed.

We'll see.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

3Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Mon May 13 2019, 20:26

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
You should run sluffy, I'll vote for you.

4Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Mon May 13 2019, 20:55

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:You should run sluffy, I'll vote for you.

Thanks but what is the point anybody running because they hold their seats for two years.  So even if I and two non 'clique' members got elected this year, they still would hold a 4 to 3 voting majority at least for the next year and clearly whatever ideas and plans I may have to run the ST as a public body - rather than a private members club for them and their mates - isn't going to change a think.

And the longer you are on the board the more you get tainted in the view of others by association if nothing else.

Allanson and Bridge have serious financial credibility issues in my opinion and as long as they are there - and their mates have already cleared Allanson and brought back Bridge - the longer the feeling of untrustworthiness persists.

Even tonight they could answer NO to a straight question (have you met your £25k target) even though anybody could look it up and check it out if they wanted to - and give the fake news answer about having 6,500 members when their own audited accounts states there are only just over 3,000.

There's just no need to mislead and hide - yet they do it time, and time, and time again!

Best thing they could do would be to resign on mass and let a completely new and fresh board take their place - and I'd certainly would want ChairManda to head it up.

It's not going to happen though - so why bother.

Their fund raising is up to £17k

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

(If each of their phantom 6,000 members put in just a £5 each, then that would be £30k. Similarly if their real 3,000 members put £10 each in that would be £30k as well. Seems from the number who have donated they have around just 400 core members.

6,000 to 400 in just three years - almost as bad as the clubs been run and managed!).







Last edited by Sluffy on Mon May 13 2019, 21:04; edited 1 time in total

5Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Mon May 13 2019, 20:58

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Even the way the thread is titled suggests sneering contempt.

6Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Mon May 13 2019, 21:00

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Thanks but what is the point anybody running because they hold their seats for two years.  So even if I and two non 'clique' members got elected this year, they still would hold a 4 to 3 voting majority at least for the next year and clearly whatever ideas and plans I may have to run the ST as a public body - rather than a private members club for them and their mates - isn't going to change a think.


You've more chance of influencing things from the inside than on a Wanderers forum.

7Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Mon May 13 2019, 21:05

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I've not read it but I'm sure it's embarrassing.

No offense because I'm sure they're passionate people but why would I want the club to have a bank balance worse than my own ?

8Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Mon May 13 2019, 21:10

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Even the way the thread is titled suggests sneering contempt.

Is it?

Is it anything more than just a cosy chat?

I can't see anything remotely difficult to deal with in what was put and certainly nothing queried or challenged to what they said.

Seems like an afternoon tea and biscuits with the vicar than a Nixon or Paxman style interview.

What bombshells did I miss?



Last edited by Sluffy on Mon May 13 2019, 21:14; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling mistake)

9Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Mon May 13 2019, 21:13

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Thanks but what is the point anybody running because they hold their seats for two years.  So even if I and two non 'clique' members got elected this year, they still would hold a 4 to 3 voting majority at least for the next year and clearly whatever ideas and plans I may have to run the ST as a public body - rather than a private members club for them and their mates - isn't going to change a think.


You've more chance of influencing things from the inside than on a Wanderers forum.

I've zero interest in influencing anything.

Let them get on with it seems 6,100 of their alleged 6,500 members have already voted with their feet, without any help from me.

10Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Mon May 13 2019, 22:01

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Without opening a can of worms Sluffy i have never really understood why you are so totally against the ST. I assume you have really valid reasons and another assumption would be that you believe in the concept but not the people running it? What have they done to make you feel as you do. 

From a totally lay mans view surely in the position the club finds it's self then it's admirable that fans feel strong enough to try in any way to do something positive, to run any organisation you need committed people, from experience i have found it's usually a small group of people who are prepared to put there heads above the trenches, whilst the vast majority sit back and do nothing or take a pop.

In this case i have not joined the ST so i am guilty of doing nothing, but for some reason i feel that i should be more committed. I read the blog tonight in the BN and the one conclusion i drew from it was that on Nuts i would read a negative review. So what have i missed.

11Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Mon May 13 2019, 22:18

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Confused:
Even tonight they could answer NO to a straight question (have you met your £25k target) even though anybody could look it up and check it out if they wanted to - and give the fake news answer about having 6,500 members when their own audited accounts states there are only just over 3,000.

There's just no need to mislead and hide - yet they do it time, and time, and time again!


Answer
MS - Three thousand one hundred and something. (straight off the bat wessy) then they mention associate members.



Q - Did the ST expect to raise the full £25k from the crowdfunding?

MS - The reason we put £25k target was that when you open a Just Giving page you have to put a limit. 



They didn't really make me shout lying bastards ? Like i say obviously missing something

12Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Mon May 13 2019, 23:22

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Confused:
Even tonight they could answer NO to a straight question (have you met your £25k target) even though anybody could look it up and check it out if they wanted to - and give the fake news answer about having 6,500 members when their own audited accounts states there are only just over 3,000.

There's just no need to mislead and hide - yet they do it time, and time, and time again!


Answer
MS - Three thousand one hundred and something. (straight off the bat wessy) then they mention associate members.



Q - Did the ST expect to raise the full £25k from the crowdfunding?

MS - The reason we put £25k target was that when you open a Just Giving page you have to put a limit. 



They didn't really make me shout lying bastards ? Like i say obviously missing something

Question 1 - How many members have the ST got -

A - 3,100
B - 6,500
or
C - 9,600 (3,100 + 6,500)

Question 2 - Did the ST expect to raise the full £25k from crowdfunding

A - Yes
B - N0
or
C - avoid giving an answer to the question.


It's not hard to give an honest answer to a straight question is it?

Then why not simply give one?

Both answers are in the public domain anyway!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Wessy mate if you think the ST is the right thing for you then go for it - it is a free world after all.

My main gripe is that I spent 30 years working in the public sector and was accountable for an awful lot of public funds.  I was taught to always be professional, open and accountable for the money as it was not mine - and also responsible in the way I acted because it was the rate and tax payers money and I was answerable to them for how I controlled and used it and how I was always to be whiter than white in my actions.

The ST since its inception has never filled me with any confidence in how they have conducted themselves and shown little accountability to anyone other than themselves.

Missing a whole years AGM and yet to have a meaningful election after three years of existence are just two of the glaring issues highlighting the poor lack of running of the ST as it should have been in my honest opinion.

If people don't share my opinion then great that's their choice but in my opinion (and many other peoples too) they have had their own private agenda from the start and have acted as though it is their own little members club they are running rather than a public sector community based organisation which it actually is.

Does that make my position any clearer to you?

13Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Tue May 14 2019, 13:04

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Yes it does and thank you for your explanation, been on here long enough for you to form an opinion of me and my intention was not to shit stir, i registered for the trust 3 years ago but never paid guessing that makes me one of the ghost number?

The main reason i didn't join was in fact the negativity i read from posts on here and elsewhere that made me doubt the way the ST was set up. 

I suppose the reason i ask is that with all the crap we have been threw over the last three years in a perfect world i would see the setting up of a fan driven support network as a good thing and it would have appealed to me. I bow to your superior knowledge in terms of the people elected to run the trust and accept you have made your own balanced judgement.

For those of us without the insight of the people in charge it seem to come across as somewhat paranoid hence me asking for an explanation. So final question what do you see as "their private agenda"?

14Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Tue May 14 2019, 13:28

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
'Balanced Judgement'? Very Happy

15Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Tue May 14 2019, 13:54

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Yes it does and thank you for your explanation, been on here long enough for you to form an opinion of me and my intention was not to shit stir, i registered for the trust 3 years ago but never paid guessing that makes me one of the ghost number?

The main reason i didn't join was in fact the negativity i read from posts on here and elsewhere that made me doubt the way the ST was set up. 

I suppose the reason i ask is that with all the crap we have been threw over the last three years in a perfect world i would see the setting up of a fan driven support network as a good thing and it would have appealed to me. I bow to your superior knowledge in terms of the people elected to run the trust and accept you have made your own balanced judgement.

For those of us without the insight of the people in charge it seem to come across as somewhat paranoid hence me asking for an explanation. So final question what do you see as "their private agenda"?

I know your not shit stirring mate and only seeking my opinion on things, I've certainly don't have any problem with that.

I also don't wish to be seen as an 'influencer' or a cheer leader or however else people want (and do!) try to portray myself as.  I'm simply just a random bloke who doesn't take things on first sight as gospel and who tends to like doing a bit of homework before expressing my views.  Not to say I always come out with the right answer all the time but I do tend not to come out with the wrong answer more than most.

I much rather people make up their own minds about things than take my word or views about on anything.  I am tolerant (extremely so) of people holding opposite opinions to my own and the very few who have ever been banned from Nuts long term are just those who have gone out of their way to be personally abusive, remain abusive after many warnings and even continue to be abusive even after leaving our site.

To answer your question the ST clearly had a hidden desire/wish/aim/agenda to gain ownership of the club.  I wouldn't have too much of a problem respecting their view (although it isn't mine) if they had people in charge of it had a wish to run an open and democratic organisation and who themselves were free of any allegations of financial or other impropriety.

For me they didn't achieve that level and still continue not to.

Indeed the ST's reason for purpose was to be around for exactly at a time as we are in yet even after three years in existence they have no plan or preparation of what to do, can't even achieve a target they set themselves from crowd funding (don't give me any of this 'well we had to put some figure - the figure is what they would have calculated they need, not some random amount plucked from the air), hold a public forum, that was poorly attended and resort to having a cosy chat with Iles that I doubt many bothered to even followed or read up on.

If that is what they have achieved with three years of preparation and almost universal support from the clubs fan base when they started, then even putting aside my criteria for them, they have failed, and failed badly.

They aren't fit for purpose and in the real world people would be expecting/demanding resignations.

That's my opinion of the ST, considered, reasoned and logical.

I still expect the obligatory reference to obsession and a picture or two of Moby Dick from a certain poster still though.

Wink

16Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Tue May 14 2019, 14:29

Guest


Guest
Tommy Robinson probably thinks he’s a tolerant reasonable guy. Not saying you're anything like him or the views he holds but you should rely on others to make these judgements rather than repeating them about yourself.

17Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Tue May 14 2019, 14:56

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
T.R.O.Y wrote:Tommy Robinson probably thinks he’s a tolerant reasonable guy. Not saying you're anything like him or the views he holds but you should rely on others to make these judgements rather than repeating them about yourself.

Dear God are you that desperate for an argument!

Ignoring your Robinson reference, my whole post above was basically telling people to make up their own minds - and that includes about me!!!

It's pretty obvious that you don't even bother to read what I write before posting for a reaction from me.

18Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Tue May 14 2019, 15:05

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
T.R.O.Y wrote:Tommy Robinson probably thinks he’s a tolerant reasonable guy. Not saying you're anything like him or the views he holds but you should rely on others to make these judgements rather than repeating them about yourself.
Jesus Christ.  :facepalm:

19Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Tue May 14 2019, 15:50

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
He was stating that your claim of a "considered, reasoned and logical" explanation was for others to decide.

20Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Tue May 14 2019, 16:19

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:He was stating that your claim of a "considered, reasoned and logical" explanation was for others to decide.

 
And I was saying that others should make up their own minds about things - and that would include whether they thought I was 'considered, reasoned and logical'.

He's clearly not bothered to read fully what I wrote and was once again just fishing for yet another meaningless argument.

We can all see what he's up to, people certainly don't need me to point it out.

21Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Tue May 14 2019, 20:13

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Yes it does and thank you for your explanation, been on here long enough for you to form an opinion of me and my intention was not to shit stir, i registered for the trust 3 years ago but never paid guessing that makes me one of the ghost number?

The main reason i didn't join was in fact the negativity i read from posts on here and elsewhere that made me doubt the way the ST was set up. 

I suppose the reason i ask is that with all the crap we have been threw over the last three years in a perfect world i would see the setting up of a fan driven support network as a good thing and it would have appealed to me. I bow to your superior knowledge in terms of the people elected to run the trust and accept you have made your own balanced judgement.

For those of us without the insight of the people in charge it seem to come across as somewhat paranoid hence me asking for an explanation. So final question what do you see as "their private agenda"?



To answer your question the ST clearly had a hidden desire/wish/aim/agenda to gain ownership of the club.  I wouldn't have too much of a problem respecting their view (although it isn't mine) if they had people in charge of it had a wish to run an open and democratic organisation and who themselves were free of any allegations of financial or other impropriety.

For me they didn't achieve that level and still continue not to.

Indeed the ST's reason for purpose was to be around for exactly at a time as we are in yet even after three years in existence they have no plan or preparation of what to do, can't even achieve a target they set themselves from crowd funding (don't give me any of this 'well we had to put some figure - the figure is what they would have calculated they need, not some random amount plucked from the air), hold a public forum, that was poorly attended and resort to having a cosy chat with Iles that I doubt many bothered to even followed or read up on.

If that is what they have achieved with three years of preparation and almost universal support from the clubs fan base when they started, then even putting aside my criteria for them, they have failed, and failed badly

Wink
Ok Sluffy i think we are on the same page in thinking that the current crisis calls out for fans to get involved and show real support. But for you the people who took on the key roles are not in your opinion fit for purpose and proved to be ineffective and under achieving over the three year period.  I can understand that view.

Although i would hope they can get their act together or be replaced through the correct channels so that a worthwhile supporters trust emerges and stands ready for any future crisis.

22Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Tue May 14 2019, 20:54

Guest


Guest
@Natasha Whittam wrote:He was stating that your claim of a "considered, reasoned and logical" explanation was for others to decide.


Exactly, it’s not difficult to understand.

23Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Tue May 14 2019, 20:57

Guest


Guest
@karlypants wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:Tommy Robinson probably thinks he’s a tolerant reasonable guy. Not saying you're anything like him or the views he holds but you should rely on others to make these judgements rather than repeating them about yourself.
Jesus Christ.  :facepalm:

Seriously Karly, you’re a grown man.

This shameless toe sucking of Sluffy needs to stop. It’s beyond embarrassing.

Climb out.

24Iles cosy chat with the ST. Empty Re: Iles cosy chat with the ST. Tue May 14 2019, 21:10

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
T.R.O.Y wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:Tommy Robinson probably thinks he’s a tolerant reasonable guy. Not saying you're anything like him or the views he holds but you should rely on others to make these judgements rather than repeating them about yourself.
Jesus Christ.  :facepalm:

Seriously Karly, you’re a grown man.

This shameless toe sucking of Sluffy needs to stop. It’s beyond embarrassing.

Climb out.
Please stop putting pictures in my head. Very Happy

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