General Election

@wanderlust wrote:

@gloswhite wrote:how do you know there has been Russian subversion? tell me what evidence you have. (Sorry, I sound like TROY now   )
Surmising doesn't make anything true.

Fact is we don't know 100% however the Intelligence report was leaked to the Sunday Times and there have been several private sector investigations and investigative journalism TV programmes all of which provide considerable evidence that there has been interference both in the 2016 Brexit referendum and the last general election and other reports that claim to have evidence that the right wing political establishment has been infiltrated by agents acting for Russia including key Tory sponsors. Furthermore the Electoral commission pointed out that our electoral system is not able to withstand interference from malign foreign forces and is not fit for purpose.

So the real question is that if Borat/Cummings truly believe that this is a load of bollocks why don't they just publish the report and provide the other evidence to nip it in the bud? 

Surely that's the obvious course of action that someone with nothing to hide would take?

The excuses given are as thin as those against electoral reform which would mean that every person's vote counts as much as the next person's vote but sadly we are tied into a system wherein we are not equal in that respect.

It will be interesting to see if glos responds. He normally doesn't when facts undermine his contentions.

This is what happens when the Tories look after the NHS:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50397856

@xmiles wrote:

@wanderlust wrote:

@gloswhite wrote:how do you know there has been Russian subversion? tell me what evidence you have. (Sorry, I sound like TROY now   )
Surmising doesn't make anything true.

Fact is we don't know 100% however the Intelligence report was leaked to the Sunday Times and there have been several private sector investigations and investigative journalism TV programmes all of which provide considerable evidence that there has been interference both in the 2016 Brexit referendum and the last general election and other reports that claim to have evidence that the right wing political establishment has been infiltrated by agents acting for Russia including key Tory sponsors. Furthermore the Electoral commission pointed out that our electoral system is not able to withstand interference from malign foreign forces and is not fit for purpose.

So the real question is that if Borat/Cummings truly believe that this is a load of bollocks why don't they just publish the report and provide the other evidence to nip it in the bud? 

Surely that's the obvious course of action that someone with nothing to hide would take?

The excuses given are as thin as those against electoral reform which would mean that every person's vote counts as much as the next person's vote but sadly we are tied into a system wherein we are not equal in that respect.

It will be interesting to see if glos responds. He normally doesn't when facts undermine his contentions.

Will you stop being antagonistic towards him? I'm just trying to be rational about it and would be interested if Glos had a rational response.

Farage is such a dick.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50427369

Desparate stuff:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50426535

@xmiles wrote:Desparate stuff:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50426535

The worst thing about this is that I thought we'd finally seen the back of her but she just won't crawl away...

@wanderlust wrote:

@xmiles wrote:

@wanderlust wrote:

@gloswhite wrote:how do you know there has been Russian subversion? tell me what evidence you have. (Sorry, I sound like TROY now   )
Surmising doesn't make anything true.

Fact is we don't know 100% however the Intelligence report was leaked to the Sunday Times and there have been several private sector investigations and investigative journalism TV programmes all of which provide considerable evidence that there has been interference both in the 2016 Brexit referendum and the last general election and other reports that claim to have evidence that the right wing political establishment has been infiltrated by agents acting for Russia including key Tory sponsors. Furthermore the Electoral commission pointed out that our electoral system is not able to withstand interference from malign foreign forces and is not fit for purpose.

So the real question is that if Borat/Cummings truly believe that this is a load of bollocks why don't they just publish the report and provide the other evidence to nip it in the bud? 

Surely that's the obvious course of action that someone with nothing to hide would take?

The excuses given are as thin as those against electoral reform which would mean that every person's vote counts as much as the next person's vote but sadly we are tied into a system wherein we are not equal in that respect.

It will be interesting to see if glos responds. He normally doesn't when facts undermine his contentions.

Will you stop being antagonistic towards him? I'm just trying to be rational about it and would be interested if Glos had a rational response.

Unfortunately Wander, XM, and TROY are now so embedded in their dislike and distrust of anything Brexit, Tory, or Boris, that there is no hope of a balanced response to anything they do not agree with. They also seem to think that anything they say, usually backed up by others of the same ilk, is 100% correct. I gave up trying to talk sensibly to them a year or more ago as I was so tired of the abuse, not necessarily to me, but to leavers in general. 
It seems strange to me that for people that are so convinced the country is going to fall to pieces if we leave the EU, that so many will vote for the Tory party, knowing that Brexit will shortly follow. According to the political polls, still the majority of the country take this view. I believe, and I've said this before, that the Leavers haven't reacted to the Remainers barrage of abuse to the government, and leavers, as, once we had won, we expected MP's and Parliament to carry out the wishes of the people. Why should we protest and argue when we were getting what we had voted for?
People on here who continually harp on about what is rapidly become old or insignificant news are, to me, no longer worth listening to. When I'm bored I will come on here for the odd comment, throw a pebble into the pond as it were, and watch the most predictable responses come back. 
I'm beginning to worry about those two, as I think they have become so entrenched in their thinking that they will suffer greatly when they don't get all the things they have been expecting or asking for. If it doesn't go my way, I won't be happy, but I won't rant and rave or abuse anyone, Ill just get on with life.
As stated previously, the main reason I want to leave the EU is to be able to govern ourselves, making our own decisions rather than becoming an even more insignificant cog, in a vast, mainly rudderless machine. I'm not a rabid racist who lives up North, nor am I financially incompetent, and am aware of the penalties we will pay in the shorter term. I believe the shake up, in all areas, is what this country now needs, (politically, financially, legally, and socially), and hopefully we'll come out the other side with a much better future than we have now.
If nothing else, Brexit has shown what a mess this country is in, and it hasn't happened just because of the Brexit referendum.

Yay free broadband for all !!! What a fucking useless cunt corbyn and the rest of them are they face a wipeout at the election which they won't recover from, it is the end of the labour party and not a moment too soon.

Yes Glos you're famously balanced in relation remain, Corbyn and Labour aren't you?

As I've told you umpteen times, I support leaving the EU but with a deal that doesn't break our economy. 

Clearly you don't bother reading other posts, you just pigeon hole them all into the same polarised category - if it's not exactly what you think it must be remainer nonsense.

Take a breath and accept other people have valuable input and shouldn't be dismissed.

Glos you keep going on about abuse but I have never abused you and as far as I know neither have any other posters on this site. However I have been abused by brexit fans on this site several times (see karly's post at 147 for a recent example).

You also ignore all the abuse remain supporters and neutrals have received including judges being called enemies of the people for simply upholding the law.

I don't think the election result can be directly equated to the last EU referendum result though. Currently the Tories are predicted across a wide range of polls to get a huge working majority - but that is more to do with the electoral system than leave or remain opinions as the same polls predict that more people will vote for the combined remain parties (if Labour can be counted as a leave party) than the combined leave parties. 
It's just that the first past the post system will mean their votes count for less. 

Glos - I don't want to labour the point (no pun intended) but you write about "a much better future than we have now" and I'm wondering how you think that's even possible if we leave the EU? Surely all the evidence points to an economic disaster? Is there anything I can realistically look at that would give me any hope for a better future outside the EU?

Here is another example of the kind of abuse people who oppose brexit receive:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50436203

Oh lord:

https://twitter.com/stevebarclay/status/1194966699621208064?s=21

Just when you think these idiots can’t get any worse, another who shouldn’t be anywhere near power yet has been propelled to its inner circle simply for being ‘on side’.

T.R.O.Y wrote:Oh lord:

https://twitter.com/stevebarclay/status/1194966699621208064?s=21

Just when you think these idiots can’t get any worse, another who shouldn’t be anywhere near power yet has been propelled to its inner circle simply for being ‘on side’.

And this moron is the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union!

@xmiles wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:Oh lord:

https://twitter.com/stevebarclay/status/1194966699621208064?s=21

Just when you think these idiots can’t get any worse, another who shouldn’t be anywhere near power yet has been propelled to its inner circle simply for being ‘on side’.

And this moron is the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union!  

I would have argued that this is the funniest post of 2019. Sadly it's not meant to be and the idiot actually believes he's telling the truth. Dear God, please can we get rid of the gurning twerp in no: 10 and all his idiotic followers while there is still a Britain left?

@xmiles wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:Oh lord:

https://twitter.com/stevebarclay/status/1194966699621208064?s=21

Just when you think these idiots can’t get any worse, another who shouldn’t be anywhere near power yet has been propelled to its inner circle simply for being ‘on side’.

And this moron is the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union!  

Have to agree, this is absurd. Its an old argument, but how he thinks Brexit will improve things I don't know.

Troy, I do listen to, and read, both sides of the argument. I would like to say that both sides have some good points, but find it increasingly difficult to say they have. We are now going through the Brexit equivalent of the General election, where politicians are trying to outdo each other, forgetting that there real people have to pick up the pieces. In all honesty I believe that Labour have some points, but the cost is too high or impractical, and the Tories don't seem to be able to deliver their points too well. They are now both in a bidding war, with the cost for the whole country getting out of hand. I'm sure that if Sluffy asked for money for the forum, he'd get a million or two. I tend not to get too involved with the minor details of either process as I don't think it will have too much effect on what will be the final outcome, (and I have a rubbish memory  )

XM, there has been plenty of abuse on here, both directly and indirectly, and from all of us to everyone else. Its not a very nice legacy for us, but thats how I see it on here, and I think that is why fewer people are posting nowadays, . I very much believe that if we were in a pub, then things would be far more amicable. I would suggest this should we meet, but of course its your round first 

Wander, I'm not sure there is anything for you to focus on, and I say this because the vast majority of your arguments are about the financial aspect of Brexit. Mine has been more on the 'management' of the country, although I accept that both are reliant on the other. As I've said all along, for me its not all about the money, more about the law-making side of things.

@gloswhite wrote:Wander, I'm not sure there is anything for you to focus on, and I say this because the vast majority of your arguments are about the financial aspect of Brexit. Mine has been more on the 'management' of the country, although I accept that both are reliant on the other. As I've said all along, for me its not all about the money, more about the law-making side of things.

Understand where you're coming from, don't understand your perspective.

How many of us trust Johnson to tell the truth, especially in this phase just before the election? Do we believe what he says? Is he at all trustworthy? Surely this should matter....

What's noticeable is that the other Tories that face the cameras also have a remarkable capacity for looking straight down the lens to lie and parrot the Tory message verbatim, even when the interviewer exposes the falsehoods and evasions.

Is that Swinson?

@okocha wrote:How many of us trust Johnson to tell the truth, especially in this phase just before the election? Do we believe what he says? Is he at all trustworthy? Surely this should matter....

What's noticeable is that the other Tories that face the cameras also have a remarkable capacity for looking straight down the lens to lie and parrot the Tory message verbatim, even when the interviewer exposes the falsehoods and evasions.

Do you prefer a Tony Blair veneer?

@Cajunboy wrote:

@okocha wrote:How many of us trust Johnson to tell the truth, especially in this phase just before the election? Do we believe what he says? Is he at all trustworthy? Surely this should matter....

What's noticeable is that the other Tories that face the cameras also have a remarkable capacity for looking straight down the lens to lie and parrot the Tory message verbatim, even when the interviewer exposes the falsehoods and evasions.

Do you prefer a Tony Blair veneer?

I prefer policies over people. As for Tony Blair he did actually deliver a lot including the National Minimum Wage Act, The Freedom of Information Act, the Human Rights Act and a huge reduction of relative poverty which are things we now take for granted. As a pseudo Thatcherite however, he was far too supportive of American foreign policy and the development of "the special relationship" with the USA - pretty much what Boris is hanging his hat on now - which led to us getting dragged into two wars.
I don't like Corbyn but at least he's relatively transparent and there's no way he'll ever be Trump's bitch.

@wanderlust wrote:

@Cajunboy wrote:

@okocha wrote:How many of us trust Johnson to tell the truth, especially in this phase just before the election? Do we believe what he says? Is he at all trustworthy? Surely this should matter....

What's noticeable is that the other Tories that face the cameras also have a remarkable capacity for looking straight down the lens to lie and parrot the Tory message verbatim, even when the interviewer exposes the falsehoods and evasions.

Do you prefer a Tony Blair veneer?

I prefer policies over people. As for Tony Blair he did actually deliver a lot including the National Minimum Wage Act, The Freedom of Information Act, the Human Rights Act and a huge reduction of relative poverty which are things we now take for granted. As a pseudo Thatcherite however, he was far too supportive of American foreign policy and the development of "the special relationship" with the USA - pretty much what Boris is hanging his hat on now - which led to us getting dragged into two wars.
I don't like Corbyn but at least he's relatively transparent and there's no way he'll ever be Trump's bitch.

Ironically, given Iraq, many of Blair's policies were hugely civilising influences:- banning fox-hunting and smoking in public places....He led the  regeneration of so many of our major cities.....amazing transformations from the previous squalour.

@okocha wrote:

@wanderlust wrote:

@Cajunboy wrote:

@okocha wrote:How many of us trust Johnson to tell the truth, especially in this phase just before the election? Do we believe what he says? Is he at all trustworthy? Surely this should matter....

What's noticeable is that the other Tories that face the cameras also have a remarkable capacity for looking straight down the lens to lie and parrot the Tory message verbatim, even when the interviewer exposes the falsehoods and evasions.

Do you prefer a Tony Blair veneer?

I prefer policies over people. As for Tony Blair he did actually deliver a lot including the National Minimum Wage Act, The Freedom of Information Act, the Human Rights Act and a huge reduction of relative poverty which are things we now take for granted. As a pseudo Thatcherite however, he was far too supportive of American foreign policy and the development of "the special relationship" with the USA - pretty much what Boris is hanging his hat on now - which led to us getting dragged into two wars.
I don't like Corbyn but at least he's relatively transparent and there's no way he'll ever be Trump's bitch.

Ironically, given Iraq, many of Blair's policies were hugely civilising influences:- banning fox-hunting and smoking in public places....He led the  regeneration of so many of our major cities.....amazing transformations from the previous squalour.

And, according to a bloke I used to know back in the day who worked for Blair on his campaign - and not many people know this - Blair is hung like a horse. No wonder his missus always looked like her eyes were popping out.

Alexander Borat de Pfeiffel Johnson has just told the CBI that he will be shelving the promised cut to corporation tax:

Unsurprising that he has gone back on his promise, but interesting that he is now reacting to Labour having shifted the battle ground away from Brexit and on to education, health and technology.

That said, Jeremy Bernard Corbyn has just told the CBI that Labour will get a better deal from Europe done quicker than the Tories can:


It's all games.