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How is the Tory government doing?

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Cajunboy
gloswhite
xmiles
wanderlust
Natasha Whittam
okocha
Norpig
boltonbonce
Sluffy
sunlight
wessy
Ten Bobsworth
Angry Dad
Hipster_Nebula
18 posters

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571How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jul 21 2020, 16:16

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Rory Bremner brilliance.......watch right to the end when the spotlight turns briefly on our friend, Donald J Trump

572How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jul 21 2020, 16:29

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

Laughing

573How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jul 21 2020, 17:41

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

gloswhite wrote:Apparently, some of the information put into this report comes from as far back as 2017. I didn't expect any great revelation, nor was I disappointed.
Further than that - it alludes to Russians messing with the Scottish Independence referendum which I think was 2014 and of course the EU referendum of 2016.
I didn't expect Boris to recommend an enquiry into the EU referendum despite the damning evidence, nor was I disappointed.

Tory chap I heard on the radio accepted that the Russians influenced public opinions but then claimed it didn't affect the outcome of the EU referendum. What an idiot! Surely people's opinions determine the way they vote and the way they vote determines the outcome?

574How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jul 21 2020, 20:15

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

We've been battling away with the Russians since WW2, in many guises. As times and technologies change, so do the tactics, and often the targets. I genuinely can't understand how people are surprised at this. The report tells us nothing other than the government cocked up, took their eye off the ball, (for  whatever reason), and are now expecting the Security Services to own up to the Governments errors of judgement. Not a very good idea. Thank God Failing Grayling didn't get the post, otherwise nobody would hear of anything that went wrong.

575How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jul 21 2020, 20:27

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

We've been interfering in other countries for over 200 years.

576How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jul 22 2020, 01:45

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

gloswhite wrote:We've been battling away with the Russians since WW2, in many guises. As times and technologies change, so do the tactics, and often the targets. I genuinely can't understand how people are surprised at this. The report tells us nothing other than the government cocked up, took their eye off the ball, (for  whatever reason), and are now expecting the Security Services to own up to the Governments errors of judgement. Not a very good idea. Thank God Failing Grayling didn't get the post, otherwise nobody would hear of anything that went wrong.
Not so much the "taking the eye off the ball" bit but the "letting a foreign power undermine our democracy and change the course of our history despite being fully aware that they were doing it" bit that gets me.

Noticed that they tried to ameliorate the impact by suggesting Labour were also culpable in the dim and distant past by allowing Russian oligarchs to enter the country, even though it clearly says "recent Governments" were at fault for the electoral fraud bit.

577How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jul 22 2020, 08:38

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

578How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jul 22 2020, 13:12

Hip Priest

Hip Priest
Andy Walker
Andy Walker

I notice also that,unsurprisingly, Bolton's two Tory MP's voted against the amendment raised to protect the future of our NHS. Our Labour MP voted in favour.

579How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jul 22 2020, 13:19

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

boltonbonce wrote:We've been interfering in other countries for over 200 years.
I read in the local paper about a year or so ago, (and I believe it was also mentioned on the TV), that GCHQ was changing their stance to include an offensive role where necessary. I think it was at the time they were given the go ahead to the new Cyber Park they are going to build. About time too I think.
The world of cyber warfare is indeed getting more complicated by the day.

580How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jul 22 2020, 16:39

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Warning: Grumpy rant below:

The main platform and slogan used by the Tories in the run up to the election was "Get Brexit Done" wasn't it?
Well then..
...the fifth round of talks ends tomorrow and they are no nearer getting it done than the day they took office by the looks of things, with both the left and right wing media reporting that there is now little or no chance of a deal (as predicted). Moreover, according to the Telegraph it is now the Government's "central working assumption" that there will be no deal with the EU.
Which of course means we'll lose all the favourable trade deals with countries around the world that are currently in place thanks to the EU and absolutely f*** all to replace them.

Who'd have thunk it? well pretty much everyone who knows the first thing about world trade.
Was it Putin's the Tory's plan all along? We'll probably never know for sure.

But what we do know for sure is that we are going to be well and truly f****d, selling off the NHS is more likely than not, we are saddled with more debt than ever before and we won't have the means to service it.

I just hope the people the voted for this debacle are feeling proud of themselves.

581How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jul 22 2020, 17:14

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

Hard core brexiteers will never admit they were wrong.

They will fall back on 3 big lies, namely it is all the fault of:

1. the EU
2. corona virus
3. remain voters

582How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jul 22 2020, 17:41

sunlight

sunlight
Andy Walker
Andy Walker

Someone at work said that after Brexit there will be no more of that funny food over here. He dreams of sitting in wetherspoons talking about brick laying.

583How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jul 22 2020, 17:42

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

I'm now reading (Daily Fail) that hopes are fading for getting a UK/USA trade deal in place before the US elections - and the Tories who initially talked it up are backtracking and claiming they never set out a timescale - which is untrue.

That means that they have painted us into a corner inasmuch that the election is on the 3rd of November and if Trump is ousted the new administration will need time to get their feet under the table before being in a position to start negotiations again from scratch.
Without an EU deal it looks like UK business will be left in limbo.

Alternatively, if Trump retains power Liz Truss will continue to lead us down the rocky road we are on - but there will be another delay.

584How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Jul 23 2020, 00:54

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

wanderlust wrote:Warning: Grumpy rant below:

The main platform and slogan used by the Tories in the run up to the election was "Get Brexit Done" wasn't it?
Well then..
...the fifth round of talks ends tomorrow and they are no nearer getting it done than the day they took office by the looks of things, with both the left and right wing media reporting that there is now little or no chance of a deal (as predicted). Moreover, according to the Telegraph it is now the Government's "central working assumption" that there will be no deal with the EU.
Which of course means we'll lose all the favourable trade deals with countries around the world that are currently in place thanks to the EU and absolutely f*** all to replace them.

Who'd have thunk it? well pretty much everyone who knows the first thing about world trade.
Was it Putin's the Tory's plan all along? We'll probably never know for sure.

But what we do know for sure is that we are going to be well and truly f****d, selling off the NHS is more likely than not, we are saddled with more debt than ever before and we won't have the means to service it.

I just hope the people the voted for this debacle are feeling proud of themselves.

Are you serious because YOU voted for BREXIT yourself!!!!

"I, like half the Leave voters voted to Leave the EU but to stay in the Single Market and Customs Union which is what all the Leave campaign leaders promised during the referendum campaign. Norway and Switzerland etc"

http://www.wanderersways.com/forum/topic/88073-in-or-out-again/page/598/?tab=comments#comment-1866787

The vote was simple REMAIN or LEAVE, no if's or buts.

How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 800px-2016_EU_Referendum_Ballot_Paper

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2016_EU_Referendum_Ballot_Paper.jpg

You voted LEAVE - you voted for BREXIT.

Your choice, nobody forced you to vote that way or even vote at all.

Nobodies fault but your own if you didn't understand what you were voting for.

You made your decision now you have to live with it.

585How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Jul 23 2020, 01:13

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Thought I'd post this here!

The U.K.’s Response to Covid-19 Has Been World-Class
One country has done more than any other to stop the spread of the coronavirus.

When the discussion turns to which countries have responded best to Covid-19 — and if nothing else, the pandemic frees up a lot of time for this debate — those most often mentioned are Taiwan, New Zealand and Vietnam. I would like to make a more surprising nomination: the U.K. Covid-19 is a potential scourge to billions around the globe, so the pertinent question is which country has done the most to stop it.

At first glance, the U.K.’s performance doesn’t look great. It has one of the highest death rates per million, and the government’s initial response to Covid-19 was halting and contradictory. Its prime minister, Boris Johnson, contracted Covid-19 and was disabled for weeks. Nor are the British renowned for their love of mask-wearing.

That said, the most important factor in the global response to Covid-19 has to be progress on the biomedical front, and on that score the U.K. receives stellar marks. In fact, I would argue, it is tops in the world, and certainly No. 1 on a per capita basis.

First, a cheap steroid known as dexamethasone was the first drug shown to reduce death in Covid-19 patients, and the trials proving its effectiveness came from the U.K., with Oxford University playing a prominent role. In one sample, the drug reduced deaths among a vulnerable group by one-third (it is less effective for milder cases). Dexamethasone is now a part of treatment regimens around the world, and even poor countries can afford it.

It is fair to call this achievement a home run, or at least a triple (or must I say, “a six”?). And while Spain also had a role in proving the beneficial use of this drug, the U.K. clinched the path-breaking research.

The world is also in the midst of a race to find a safe and effective vaccine against Covid-19. And so far the leading contender comes from the U.K. Results published on Monday indicate that the vaccine generated an immune response in a group of about 1,000 patients. To develop this vaccine, the British-Swedish drug company AstraZeneca has been working with Oxford, and the company has inked a major deal for widespread distribution to poorer countries.

The side effects have been “mild or moderate,” according to the results, and the vaccine is moving more quickly than other major contenders into large-scale studies. That’s not the same as proof, much less finished results, but still: The U.K. deserves high marks for this progress. There is talk of a million doses or more being ready by this fall, though it was commonly claimed earlier in the year that a good vaccine might be many years away.

You might wonder how the Oxford vaccine got so far so soon. The answer lies in preparation and investment in a diverse research portfolio. Oxford’s Jenner Institute, which has played a key role in development of the vaccine, already was working on other coronavirus issues and had a stock of knowledge about which potential coronavirus vaccines might prove harmless to humans. The researchers were able to scale up their efforts relatively quickly.

In sum, the best life-saving medicine and the best candidate vaccine both come from the U.K. For sure, there might be some elements of coincidence here, but the same can be said for the more effective public-health responses as well.

By the way, if you are looking for the second leading candidate in the race to fight Covid-19, the most plausible answer is the U.S., which has produced the useful antiviral remdesivir and is working on a broad array of vaccine candidates, with generally promising results, even if none of them is as far along as the work at Oxford. The U.S. may yet pass the U.K. for overall contributions, but as of mid-July in per capita terms the British are the winners by a landslide.

It is fine and even correct to lecture the British (and the Americans) for their poorly conceived messaging and public health measures. But it is interesting how few people lecture the Australians or the South Koreans for not having a better biomedical research establishment. It is yet another sign of how societies tend to undervalue innovation — which makes the U.K.’s contribution all the more important.

Critics of Brexit like to say that it will leave the U.K. as a small country of minor import. Maybe so. In the meantime, the Brits are on track to save the world.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-07-22/british-response-to-covid-19-has-been-world-class

:uk:

586How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Jul 23 2020, 01:36

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sluffy wrote:Thought I'd post this here!

The U.K.’s Response to Covid-19 Has Been World-Class
One country has done more than any other to stop the spread of the coronavirus.

When the discussion turns to which countries have responded best to Covid-19 — and if nothing else, the pandemic frees up a lot of time for this debate — those most often mentioned are Taiwan, New Zealand and Vietnam. I would like to make a more surprising nomination: the U.K. Covid-19 is a potential scourge to billions around the globe, so the pertinent question is which country has done the most to stop it.

At first glance, the U.K.’s performance doesn’t look great. It has one of the highest death rates per million, and the government’s initial response to Covid-19 was halting and contradictory. Its prime minister, Boris Johnson, contracted Covid-19 and was disabled for weeks. Nor are the British renowned for their love of mask-wearing.

That said, the most important factor in the global response to Covid-19 has to be progress on the biomedical front, and on that score the U.K. receives stellar marks. In fact, I would argue, it is tops in the world, and certainly No. 1 on a per capita basis.

First, a cheap steroid known as dexamethasone was the first drug shown to reduce death in Covid-19 patients, and the trials proving its effectiveness came from the U.K., with Oxford University playing a prominent role. In one sample, the drug reduced deaths among a vulnerable group by one-third (it is less effective for milder cases). Dexamethasone is now a part of treatment regimens around the world, and even poor countries can afford it.

It is fair to call this achievement a home run, or at least a triple (or must I say, “a six”?). And while Spain also had a role in proving the beneficial use of this drug, the U.K. clinched the path-breaking research.

The world is also in the midst of a race to find a safe and effective vaccine against Covid-19. And so far the leading contender comes from the U.K. Results published on Monday indicate that the vaccine generated an immune response in a group of about 1,000 patients. To develop this vaccine, the British-Swedish drug company AstraZeneca has been working with Oxford, and the company has inked a major deal for widespread distribution to poorer countries.

The side effects have been “mild or moderate,” according to the results, and the vaccine is moving more quickly than other major contenders into large-scale studies. That’s not the same as proof, much less finished results, but still: The U.K. deserves high marks for this progress. There is talk of a million doses or more being ready by this fall, though it was commonly claimed earlier in the year that a good vaccine might be many years away.

You might wonder how the Oxford vaccine got so far so soon. The answer lies in preparation and investment in a diverse research portfolio. Oxford’s Jenner Institute, which has played a key role in development of the vaccine, already was working on other coronavirus issues and had a stock of knowledge about which potential coronavirus vaccines might prove harmless to humans. The researchers were able to scale up their efforts relatively quickly.

In sum, the best life-saving medicine and the best candidate vaccine both come from the U.K. For sure, there might be some elements of coincidence here, but the same can be said for the more effective public-health responses as well.

By the way, if you are looking for the second leading candidate in the race to fight Covid-19, the most plausible answer is the U.S., which has produced the useful antiviral remdesivir and is working on a broad array of vaccine candidates, with generally promising results, even if none of them is as far along as the work at Oxford. The U.S. may yet pass the U.K. for overall contributions, but as of mid-July in per capita terms the British are the winners by a landslide.

It is fine and even correct to lecture the British (and the Americans) for their poorly conceived messaging and public health measures. But it is interesting how few people lecture the Australians or the South Koreans for not having a better biomedical research establishment. It is yet another sign of how societies tend to undervalue innovation — which makes the U.K.’s contribution all the more important.

Critics of Brexit like to say that it will leave the U.K. as a small country of minor import. Maybe so. In the meantime, the Brits are on track to save the world.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-07-22/british-response-to-covid-19-has-been-world-class

:uk:
Cowen is an interesting read as he expounds his own brand of hyper-meritocracism whilst claiming to be liberal in his views, which is presumably why he receives so much criticism. Unfortunately he doesn't always do the research to support his arguments as in this case.
The Jenner Institute at Oxford that he makes such a fuss about is a multinational venture involving scientists from many nations and is entirely funded by an Indian steel magnate*.

But it doesn't suit his argument to mention such details.

Although I do agree with his assessment that Brexit will leave the UK as a "a small country of minor import".

* who also has a share in QPR by the way.

587How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Jul 23 2020, 01:47

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

wanderlust wrote:Cowen is an interesting read as he expounds his own brand of hyper-meritocracism whilst claiming to be liberal in his views, which is presumably why he receives so much criticism. Unfortunately he doesn't always do the research to support his arguments as in this case.
The Jenner Institute at Oxford that he makes such a fuss about is a multinational venture involving scientists from many nations and is entirely funded by an Indian steel magnate.

But it doesn't suit his argument to mention such details.

Although I do agree with his assessment that Brexit will leave the UK as a "a small country of minor import".

Is that what you read on social media then?

Wonder why their site lists all these then - and no Indian steel magnate?

FUNDERS
Funding agencies who currently support the work of the Jenner Institute:

CEPI

Wellcome Trust

Medical Research Council UK

European Commission

Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation

US National Institutes of Health

Foundation for the National Institutes of Health

International AIDS Vaccine Initiative

UK Department of Health

National Institute for Health Research

Malaria Vaccine Initiative at PATH

European Virtual Institute of Malaria Research

Wolfson Foundation

European Vaccine Initiative

Lister Institute

University of Oxford

Gates Foundation Malaria Programme at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine

Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council

Department for Environment & Rural Affairs

PARTNERS
The Pirbright Institute

Animal and Plant Health Agency

Veterinary Vaccinology Network

https://www.jenner.ac.uk/about/funders-partners

Rolling Eyes

Probably why he didn't mention it then!

Very Happy

PS - Didn't you vote for Brexit!?!

588How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Jul 23 2020, 02:14

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

The Jenner Institute does a wide range of work including vaccines for humans and as you point out above it is funded by international organisations as well as getting around £74 million per annum from the EU although I think that has now stopped. The post of the Director of the Jenner Oxford Institute is funded by the Indian Steel Magnate - so I apologise for that confusion.
Nonetheless the other points stand i.e. it is a multinational effort by scientists from around the world and funded by organisations across the world. Much of the research was actually carried out in Montana USA (Rocky Mountain Labs) and of course there's the Astra Zeneca connection who have labs all over the shop.

And Brexit will leave us screwed. Smile

How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 9k=

589How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Jul 23 2020, 02:38

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

wanderlust wrote:The Jenner Institute does a wide range of work including vaccines for humans and as you point out above it is funded by international organisations as well as getting around £74 million per annum from the EU although I think that has now stopped. The post of the Director of the Jenner Oxford Institute is funded by the Indian Steel Magnate - so I apologise for that confusion.
Nonetheless the other points stand i.e. it is a multinational effort by scientists from around the world and funded by organisations across the world. Much of the research was actually carried out in Montana USA (Rocky Mountain Labs) and of course there's the Astra Zeneca connection who have labs all over the shop.

And Brexit will leave us screwed. Smile

How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 9k=

So it's NOT 'entirely' funded by an Indian Steel Magnate, it's basically got employees from various county's - just like any other business has and accepts foreign investment and partnerships again just like any other business does!

It's competed with all other country's across the world including the USA (who bought up all the future drug manufactured from a company for its own consumption) China and Russia (who are trying to hack what the west is doing because they are behind them in development) and medicinal super league giants like the Swiss and the Germans and all you can do is rubbish the article???

Credit where credit is due they (WE!!!) seem to lead the world right now and on the biggest single thing that matters for all of humankind these days.



Cat got your tongue about you voting for BREXIT???

:biggrin:

590How is the Tory government doing? - Page 30 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Jul 23 2020, 07:48

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

Hardly a "world class" response:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53484998

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