Bolton Wanderers Football Club Fan Forum for all BWFC Supporters.

You are not connected. Please login or register

Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » How is the Tory government doing?

How is the Tory government doing?

Go to page : Previous  1 ... 12 ... 21, 22, 23 ... 29 ... 36  Next

Go down  Message [Page 22 of 36]

631How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 29 2020, 12:24

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
"Deemed" wrongly! The new hospitals were built incredibly quickly so could have been built and used in a hurry  to care for old folk just as easily as for covid victims..... at the time when the policy was to dump them from NHS hospitals without testing. 

In practice what happened confirmed that covid patients were "deemed" more important than the elderly and vulnerable. Try telling that to the relatives and carers of those who died in care homes ....

Read what care home staff said at the time. The people at the sharp end weren't even consulted, just as has been the case with so many decisions made by this government....e;g. the travel industry last weekend.

I don't understand why you and Nat continue to try to defend the cold-hearted, unapologetic actions of this blundering government.

632How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 29 2020, 13:10

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@okocha wrote:"Deemed" wrongly! The new hospitals were built incredibly quickly so could have been built and used in a hurry  to care for old folk just as easily as for covid victims..... at the time when the policy was to dump them from NHS hospitals without testing. 

In practice what happened confirmed that covid patients were "deemed" more important than the elderly and vulnerable. Try telling that to the relatives and carers of those who died in care homes ....

Read what care home staff said at the time. The people at the sharp end weren't even consulted, just as has been the case with so many decisions made by this government....e;g. the travel industry last weekend.

I don't understand why you and Nat continue to try to defend the cold-hearted, unapologetic actions of this blundering government.

Eh?

@okocha wrote:About 25,000 patients were discharged between mid-March and mid-April 

London Nightingale was the only one opened during that time (3rd April) and as I've said they were build for overspill Covid patients after the bed spaces freed up from sending the old folk (many terminally ill already) back to the care homes.

Italy's health service been overwhelmed by the virus - see the link below from mid March, hence why the government did what they did at the time in freeing up hospital bed space and building Nightingale hospitals as fast as they possibly could.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-51980665/inside-an-italian-icu

This was a 'war' situation a tsunami was arriving imminently and action HAD to be taken immediately.

There was no time to consult anybody and it became a choice of who to save and who to let die - read this link

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200428-coronavirus-how-doctors-choose-who-lives-and-dies

I'm under no illusions that at my age and state of health I would be one of those not given treatment if there were two patients with Covid and only one could be saved - but what else can you do about it, I've lived my life, isn't it better that someone had the chance to live theirs? (Not that I'd be happy doing it though but I'd have no say in the decision).

This is really frightening stuff and it isn't a thread to be playing games on.

No one wants to die but you've really got to save as many lives as you can and that meant saving the NHS for everyone even if it meant sacrificing the old and end of lifers like me to do so.

There's a saying about sometimes that you simply have to cut off a hand to save the body, this was one of those times.

633How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 29 2020, 13:49

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Sluffy wrote:I'm not Nat but what other choice was there?
Exactly what the report says - test them before they are stuck back in a concentration of highly vulnerable people.

634How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 29 2020, 14:14

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:
@Sluffy wrote:I'm not Nat but what other choice was there?
Exactly what the report says - test them before they are stuck back in a concentration of highly vulnerable people.

Did you not bother reading anymore than my opening line of the post because if you had you would have seen this -

@Sluffy wrote:I'm not Nat but what other choice was there?

I keep trying to explain you can only do the best with what you've got at that time.

Covid was here, the priority was bed space at the NHS, there were always a large number of old people from care homes who in effect had been sent there to die and there was no ability at the time to test anything like the numbers of people to see if they were infected let alone use those tests on people who were only weeks away from dying anyway.

You can't carry out tests if you haven't got sufficient stuff to do the tests with in the first place can you?

QED

635How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 29 2020, 15:49

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Sluffy wrote:

Did you not bother reading anymore than my opening line of the post because if you had you would have seen this -



You can't carry out tests if you haven't got sufficient stuff to do the tests with in the first place can you?

QED
So if you don't know whether or not the old biddies have contracted Covid or not, is better to:
a) keep them in hospital where you know they'll be relatively safe until you do know?
b) move them to a safe "holding environment" until they can be tested?
or c) move them into a care home with 100% vulnerable people?

636How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 29 2020, 16:03

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Well, Sluffy, if you genuinely believe what you write, I have nothing more to say to you.

637How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 29 2020, 16:10

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:
@Sluffy wrote:

Did you not bother reading anymore than my opening line of the post because if you had you would have seen this -



You can't carry out tests if you haven't got sufficient stuff to do the tests with in the first place can you?

QED
So if you don't know whether or not the old biddies have contracted Covid or not, is better to:
a) keep them in hospital where you know they'll be relatively safe until you do know?
b) move them to a safe "holding environment" until they can be tested?
or c) move them into a care home with 100% vulnerable people?

Eh?

a) - the beds are urgently needed for Covid patients, so they can't stay in hospital.
b) - what safe holding environment - the Nightingales weren't built (and they were for Covid anyway) where is this safe holding environment you talk about which has 25,000 beds and support staff that are needed?
c) - where else was there to go - their beds and support staff were still there at their care homes (they hadn't been discharged from there) and if it wasn't for the cross contamination from patient to patient, care home to care homes by asymptomatic carers/agency staff (no ones blaming them by the way as no one knew at that time that the virus worked in that way), then the bulk of the problem in care homes simply would not have occurred.

Stop think political and start thinking reality.

What would Corbyn have done - exactly the same because it was the right thing to do based on everything that was known at that time - it's as simple as that.

638How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Wed Jul 29 2020, 16:14

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@okocha wrote:Well, Sluffy, if you genuinely believe what you write, I have nothing more to say to you.

At least that will stop some of the unnecessary and damaging games that have been going on, on here.

639How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Thu Jul 30 2020, 02:09

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Sluffy wrote:

Eh?

a) - the beds are urgently needed for Covid patients, so they can't stay in hospital.
b) - what safe holding environment - the Nightingales weren't built (and they were for Covid anyway) where is this safe holding environment you talk about which has 25,000 beds and support staff that are needed?
c) - where else was there to go - their beds and support staff were still there at their care homes (they hadn't been discharged from there) and if it wasn't for the cross contamination from patient to patient, care home to care homes by asymptomatic carers/agency staff (no ones blaming them by the way as no one knew at that time that the virus worked in that way), then the bulk of the problem in care homes simply would not have occurred.

Stop think political and start thinking reality.

What would Corbyn have done - exactly the same because it was the right thing to do based on everything that was known at that time - it's as simple as that.

Eh? (sic)

I wouldn't be stupid enough to speculate what Corbyn or anyone else would have done (although I suspect it would have been more humane) but I do know that prior to the 15th April, the Government instructed care homes to test returning patients on arrival - without the care homes necessarily having the required kit - and care homes were instructed to isolate those testing positive in those care homes - regardless of whether they had the staff or kit to do it. see here.

 
The Government had actively cleared out NHS facilities and moved the responsibility for both testing and isolation of the elderly to the ill-equipped private sector.

If the beds were being freed up for covid patients why did the government not instruct the care homes to ship those testing positive straight back to hospital?

Make no mistake - the government instructed care homes to keep known covid patients in care homes regardless of their capacity and not to bring them to hospital.

Point is that where possible prior to April 15th , they actually were tested (by the care homes) and the government itself claims many were. But the same government also denied hospital care to those who did test positive  - and simultaneously put hundreds of thousands of other people at risk as the care home death rates confirm.

IMO they are murdering bastards but that's just my opinion as opposed to the cold hard facts above.

640How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Thu Jul 30 2020, 03:21

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:
@Sluffy wrote:

Eh?

a) - the beds are urgently needed for Covid patients, so they can't stay in hospital.
b) - what safe holding environment - the Nightingales weren't built (and they were for Covid anyway) where is this safe holding environment you talk about which has 25,000 beds and support staff that are needed?
c) - where else was there to go - their beds and support staff were still there at their care homes (they hadn't been discharged from there) and if it wasn't for the cross contamination from patient to patient, care home to care homes by asymptomatic carers/agency staff (no ones blaming them by the way as no one knew at that time that the virus worked in that way), then the bulk of the problem in care homes simply would not have occurred.

Stop think political and start thinking reality.

What would Corbyn have done - exactly the same because it was the right thing to do based on everything that was known at that time - it's as simple as that.

Eh? (sic)

I wouldn't be stupid enough to speculate what Corbyn or anyone else would have done (although I suspect it would have been more humane) but I do know that prior to the 15th April, the Government instructed care homes to test returning patients on arrival - without the care homes necessarily having the required kit - and care homes were instructed to isolate those testing positive in those care homes - regardless of whether they had the staff or kit to do it. see here.

 
The Government had actively cleared out NHS facilities and moved the responsibility for both testing and isolation of the elderly to the ill-equipped private sector.

If the beds were being freed up for covid patients why did the government not instruct the care homes to ship those testing positive straight back to hospital?

Make no mistake - the government instructed care homes to keep known covid patients in care homes regardless of their capacity and not to bring them to hospital.

Point is that where possible prior to April 15th , they actually were tested (by the care homes) and the government itself claims many were. But the same government also denied hospital care to those who did test positive  - and simultaneously put hundreds of thousands of other people at risk as the care home death rates confirm.

IMO they are murdering bastards but that's just my opinion as opposed to the cold hard facts above.

Thank you for the link but did you actually read it before posting - I don't think you did!

What it says is that no tests were being done by the hospitals prior to returning patients to care homes and that care homes were not required to test 'new admissions'.

It doesn't say they HAD to accept Covid positive cases though - indeed this is a quote from your own link -

He told Sky News: "I know that in my particular area, all of the care homeowners have been asked if they will take COVID-19 positive patients.

"And I know that absolutely, everybody said NO, and there would be a very good reason for that. That would be tantamount to importing death into care homes.

This is what the The Public Accounts Committee reported yesterday about it -

The decision to allow hospital patients in England to be discharged to care homes without Covid-19 tests at the start of the pandemic has been described as "reckless" by MPs.

The Public Accounts Committee said there had clearly been an "emerging problem" with official advice before it was "belatedly" changed in April.

It accused ministers of being slow to support social care during the crisis.

The government said it had been "working closely" with the sector.

The committee said around 25,000 patients were discharged into care homes in England between mid-March and mid-April to free up hospital beds.

After initially saying a negative result was not required before discharging patients, the government later said on 15 April all patients would be tested.

In a highly critical report, the cross-party committee said the initial decision to allow untested patients into care homes was an "appalling error".

Speaking to the BBC, committee chair Meg Hillier acknowledged there had been limited data about the virus when early decisions were made; however she said there was also a long-term lack of understanding at the health department about how the care sector works.

"The fact that there are people on low pay not taking sick leave, moving from home to home were things that were risk elements - if you had better understanding of any impact of any disease on a care home you would have understood the implications," she said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53574265

This is exactly what I said yesterday and as you clearly didn't believe me then maybe you will now believe those that have scrutinised the records and investigated what actually went on namely when the decisions were originally being made there was 'limited data' about the virus and a lack of understanding how the care sector worked - ie agency staff moving frequently from care home to care home.

It's there in black and white by those who have scrutinised what actually happened and why.

As for your point about sending positive cases back to hospitals maybe they did after the government advice changed on the 15th April, I'm not aware care homes were prohibited from doing so?

Mistakes were made, I don't think anybody is saying differently but when the decisions were first made they were based on what knowledge was known about the virus at the time, the urgent need to save the NHS from the expect tsunami of cases and the lack of knowledge about the care home working practices of employment of agency staff working in multiple care homes at the same time.

The cold hard facts don't support your view that the government are murdering bastards but I strongly imagine your wellspring of knowledge 'social media' most certainly does!


Oh, and by the way,

Eh
/eɪ/
exclamation
used to represent a sound made in speech, especially one used to express inquiry, surprise, or to elicit agreement.
"‘Eh? What's this?’"

https://www.google.co.uk/search?ei=Li4iX-uMFPiU1fAPu4uCqAQ&q=eh+definition&oq=eh&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgAMgQIABBDMgoIABCxAxCDARBDMgUIABCxAzIHCAAQsQMQQzIICAAQsQMQgwEyBQgAELEDMgIIADIICAAQsQMQgwEyCAguEMcBEKMCMggIABCxAxCDAToHCAAQRxCwAzoFCAAQkQJQptgHWKreB2Dy8QdoAXAAeACAAUqIAZIBkgEBMpgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrAAQE&sclient=psy-ab

641How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Thu Jul 30 2020, 09:26

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
The sensible, cautious, caring approach would have been to build (equally rapidly) more Nightingale Hospitals specifically for the elderly folk discharged from NHS hospitals. 
Alternatively, existing, largely unused Nightingale facilities could have been a safe haven.

What actually happened prioritised Covid patients over the equally deserving elderly sick. That was wicked.

From Thatcher onwards, the Tories have a history of callous attitudes towards such issues as Windrush, welfare, fox-hunting, the creation of the hostile environment, Grenfell, care home residents, herd immunity, the bedroom and poll tax etc...and yet are remarkably generous to Tory donors, tax-dodgers, the wealthy etc.
They are not known as the "nasty party" for nothing.

642How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Thu Jul 30 2020, 10:48

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

643How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Thu Jul 30 2020, 10:54

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

644How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Fri Jul 31 2020, 16:43

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
And now Boris promotes 36 cronies to the Lords making it nearly 830 strong.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53606083

645How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Sun Aug 02 2020, 00:03

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

646How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Sun Aug 02 2020, 11:06

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
In his 50's, ex minister?  How surprised will we be when we learn who it is I wonder ? The journos are hovering.

647How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Thu Aug 06 2020, 13:14

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Interesting financial forecasting coming out today as the Bank of England try to work out what sort of economic stimulus would help.
Initially the Government were predicting a "V" shaped recovery i.e. we'll get hammered but bounce back quickly. Then they realised that wasn't going to happen and suggested a "U" shaped recovery i.e. it would take longer to get started but then we'll rocket back to where we were.
But after one of the worst weeks for job losses in history the forecast is for another million job losses and a "K" shaped recovery i.e. we all go down but then some sectors will start to recover whilst other sectors notably retail and travel will just continue to decline and perhaps cease to exist altogether. 
All of which points to the idea that society and our lifestyles will never be the same again.

648How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Sun Aug 09 2020, 12:05

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
You've got to laugh:- the man with no moral compass whatsoever is telling us that it's a moral duty to get children back to school..... not that I disagree that every effort should be made to make schools as safe as possible for staff and students so that a full return can go ahead with confidence asap. 

An effective test/trace system would be a good idea! Whatever happened to our "world-beating" one?

649How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Sun Aug 09 2020, 12:41

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@okocha wrote:

An effective test/trace system would be a good idea! Whatever happened to our "world-beating" one?
1. Three weeks ago the government admitted that their system was illegal as it contravened the data Protection Act
2. So it became a "voluntary" scheme - so those who don't want to be traced have every right not to be
3. The system itself is predominantly phone -based so large tranches of those identified couldn't be contacted to ask if they would share their data anyway.

All of which adds up to a shit sandwich - so Local Authorities are starting to look at setting up their own independent track and trace systems like this one in Blackburn announced this week.

If the UK is ever to get a functioning and joined-up track and trace system there need to be fundamental changes including:
1. guaranteed data protection
2. recognising that failure to disclose/isolate is a threat to others and therefore criminalising it with fines and if necessary jail time
3. feet on the ground to track down those known to have been in contact with carriers who aren't answering the phone
4. ASBO type bracelets for repeat offenders to ensure they quarantine
5. Police powers to intervene

Sounds draconian but it will get positive results if you'll forgive the pun.

650How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Sun Aug 09 2020, 15:48

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Why do pubs, clubs and restaurants have to shut down for schools to open fully? I don't see the connection, but it seems to have been presented as an either/or. A trade-off. 

If pubs, restaurants, clubs go into lockdown again despite the safety regimens imposed in them, surely parents will assume that there is still danger at large, and will not want to expose their children to risk within educational establishments where little children will find it difficult to observe the rules for long.

Clearer logic, explanation and messaging required, avoiding all rhetoric.

651How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Sun Aug 09 2020, 15:57

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@okocha wrote:If pubs, restaurants, clubs go into lockdown again despite the safety regimens imposed in them

How many pubs have you been in on a Friday or Saturday night since they re-opened?

652How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Sun Aug 09 2020, 17:12

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
The thinking goes something like this I believe.

The virus IS in the community and at 'safe' level (it's not running wild so to speak)

The infection rate as gone higher because a huge chunk of people (largely 40's and under) simply aren't taking it seriously and are not social distancing, wearing masks, keeping in their 'bubbles'.

This is about manageable so far.

When schools go back - and with all the best will in the world - there will be big problems because of non compliance by the kids and/or their parents.

Not necessarily in the schools themselves but on the way to and from.  

There used to be hoards of parents meeting up outside the infant and junior schools, to have pick up/drop off their little ones and have a chat and a gossip with the other mums and dads, when I used to take my daughter some years back and I doubt that's change.  

The older kids will be messing about with their mates on their walk home/ school buses, etc, not social distancing and with loads of kids outside of their family bubbles.

The virus seems to not harm them but it doesn't stop them catching it and passing it on.  There are questions as to how easy/difficult it is for them to catch it/pass it on - but there is clear evidence that they can and do.

I would guess adding this 'new' level of risk to what people have been doing so far will 'tip' the balance away from being 'manageable' to once again getting out of control and triggering another lockdown that nobody wants (apart us oldies and ill who are at risk).

It's hard to say what impact of people going to the pubs/beach has had on spreading the virus as it seems (and I'll say it again) that the spread of the virus is being driven either from workplace spreads or spreads in large family multi generational homes - the Asian communities in general.

Fwiw Bradford report 73 cases alone today and it's been in lock down for a week already, the next highest is Birmingham with 63 who isn't in lockdown, third highest Oldham with 44 and then Leicester with 34 (half the number of Bradford and Leicester total is the fourth worst for new cases today in the entire country). Read those stats as you wish, I only post them as a factual snapshot of todays cases.

It seems as I say that we've reached a sort of acceptable balance with control of the virus in the community and in order is to open the schools then something has to be taken off the table so to speak and that would be closing the pubs - if for no other reason it is one of the few measures that can be policed and enforced effectively.

There's a very long way to go yet and until everyone starts to take it seriously and social distance, etc, the longer it is going to carry on.

Sad but true.

653How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Sun Aug 09 2020, 18:43

T.R.O.Y.


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
@okocha wrote:Why do pubs, clubs and restaurants have to shut down for schools to open fully? I don't see the connection, but it seems to have been presented as an either/or. A trade-off. 

If pubs, restaurants, clubs go into lockdown again despite the safety regimens imposed in them, surely parents will assume that there is still danger at large, and will not want to expose their children to risk within educational establishments where little children will find it difficult to observe the rules for long.

Clearer logic, explanation and messaging required, avoiding all rhetoric.

Ye I think you hit the nail on the head that it’s a trade off to keep the virus in check - and that makes sense on the face of it at least.

The big question remains over why we don’t have a track and trace app sorted still. Without a strong system surely we’re just in the same boat as we were with the first wave?

Behind the scenes I think the government have accepted they were too slow last time and didn’t handle the first wave well. And now seem to be over compensating with caution of the second wave - I prefer the latter attitude to the first.

654How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Mon Aug 10 2020, 11:37

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The Government awarded a PPE contract worth £252 million to Ayanda Capital Limited, a ‘family office’ owned through a tax haven in Mauritius, with connections to Liz Truss. It is the largest PPE contract we have seen to date. 
In response to judicial review proceedings issued by Good Law Project, the Government has admitted that the 50 million FFP2 masks they purchased from Ayanda Capital – for a price that we calculate to be between £156m and £177m –  “will not be used in the NHS” because “there was concern as to whether the[y]… provided an adequate fixing.
So, unless Government finds another use for, or seeks to sell, those unsuitable masks, that money has been wasted. And as for the remaining 150 million Type IIR masks purchased from Ayanda Capital? Government has admitted they also require further testing and have not been released for use in the NHS.
We have also unearthed another absolutely remarkable feature of the £252 million Ayanda contract. Matt Hancock’s lawyers have now admitted they planned to enter into that contract with a £100 company wholly owned by Liz Truss’ adviser Andrew Mills and his wife. Mr Mills asked – and Government agreed – to enter into it with Ayanda instead because the £100 company (Prospermill Limited) didn’t have “international payment infrastructure.” Just how much has this arrangement prospered Mills?

655How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Mon Aug 10 2020, 11:55

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
Typical Tory corruption and of course nobody will be punished.

656How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Mon Aug 10 2020, 12:34

T.R.O.Y.


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Surely contracts this size should be put out to tender? Not agreed through what appears to be nepotism? This just seems to be one of many similar examples subverting due process to pay off friends since Boris and Cummings took office.

657How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Mon Aug 10 2020, 12:36

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:Surely contracts this size should be put out to tender? Not agreed through what appears to be nepotism? This just seems to be one of many similar examples subverting due process to pay off friends since Boris and Cummings took office.
The tracing app for example - which also failed.

658How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Mon Aug 10 2020, 12:54

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I hope you managed to catch last night's Have I Got a Bit More News for You on a fairly recent episode of the programme shown again on Dave, with Victoria Coren Mitchell in the chair. It was blindingly funny....but probably not so much if you are a Tory fan....as it had eye-watering revelations of immorality concerning Boris and his cabinet. Shameful stuff interwoven with very witty asides from Merton, Hislop and, surprisingly perhaps, guest panellist, the old cricket commentator, Henry Blofeld.

Did you know that Henry's dad was the inspiration for Ian Fleming's choice of Blofeld as the villain's name in one of the books? He and Fleming were at school together.

659How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Mon Aug 10 2020, 13:15

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@okocha wrote:I hope you managed to catch last night's Have I Got a Bit More News for You on a fairly recent episode of the programme shown again on Dave, with Victoria Coren Mitchell in the chair. It was blindingly funny....but probably not so much if you are a Tory fan....as it had eye-watering revelations of immorality concerning Boris and his cabinet. Shameful stuff interwoven with very witty asides from Merton, Hislop and, surprisingly perhaps, guest panellist, the old cricket commentator, Henry Blofeld.

Did you know that Henry's dad was the inspiration for Ian Fleming's choice of Blofeld as the villain's name in one of the books? He and Fleming were at school together.
Incidentally, Blofeld would have made a fine cricketer if he hadn't been run over by a bus.

No wonder he was obsessed by them during his commentaries. Very Happy

660How is the Tory government doing? - Page 22 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? on Mon Aug 10 2020, 13:27

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:Surely contracts this size should be put out to tender? Not agreed through what appears to be nepotism? This just seems to be one of many similar examples subverting due process to pay off friends since Boris and Cummings took office.

They are.

Unfortunately due to the urgency with the pandemic the tender process was suspended.

I guess from your question that you've never been involved in a tendering a contract of the size, as if you had you would know the amount of time it would take to draft the tender document, invite offers to tender, deal with questions/queries/clarifications/amendments to, etc, etc from those interested in tendering, await a period of time (weeks/months) for the tenders to be written by the companies, evaluate and compare the returned tenders, question/clarify issues arising, and finally awarding the contract.

Clearly not everything was done properly - but needs must.

The thinking was get things done now and sort out any illegality afterwards.

I don't think they had any other choice but to do what they did if they wanted PPE immediately and in direct competition with all the rest of the world.

Mistakes will/have happened as a consequence.

As for Track and Trace it seems to me the Govt put all its eggs in one basket, the telephone app, and when that failed had to get the current telephone system up and running PDQ.

Back to top  Message [Page 22 of 36]

Go to page : Previous  1 ... 12 ... 21, 22, 23 ... 29 ... 36  Next

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum