Coronavirus - will we survive?

@karlypants wrote:I will ask again...Has anyone on here started to wash their groceries? The meat that comes in the plastic trays, packets of biscuits etc?

I'm curious...

Not me.

Obviously I wash/rinse stuff to get the dirt off them before cooking but not the out packaging.

As far as I'm aware the virus doesn't live long on packaging such as food has, it's the metallic stuff such as door handles and taps, etc, that you need to be wary of.

From the Centres for disease control and Prevention website -

Coronaviruses are generally thought to be spread from person to person through respiratory droplets. Currently, there is no evidence to support transmission of COVID-19 associated with food. Before preparing or eating food it is important to always wash your hands with soap and water for at least 20 seconds for general food safety. Throughout the day use a tissue to cover your coughing or sneezing, and wash your hands after blowing your nose, coughing or sneezing, or going to the bathroom.

It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object, like a packaging container, that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes, but this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads.

In general, because of poor survivability of these coronaviruses on surfaces, there is likely very low risk of spread from food products or packaging.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html

@karlypants wrote:I will ask again...Has anyone on here started to wash their groceries? The meat that comes in the plastic trays, packets of biscuits etc?

I'm curious...

You're taking the piss right? Have you ever tried a Twirl dipped in Fairy Liquid?

@Sluffy wrote:

@karlypants wrote:I will ask again...Has anyone on here started to wash their groceries? The meat that comes in the plastic trays, packets of biscuits etc?

I'm curious...

Not me.

Obviously I wash/rinse stuff to get the dirt off them before cooking but not the out packaging.

As far as I'm aware the virus doesn't live long on packaging such as food has, it's the metallic stuff such as door handles and taps, etc, that you need to be wary of.

From the Centres for disease control and Prevention website -

Coronaviruses are generally thought to be spread from person to person through respiratory droplets. Currently, there is no evidence to support transmission of COVID-19 associated with food. Before preparing or eating food it is important to always wash your hands with soap and water for at least 20 seconds for general food safety. Throughout the day use a tissue to cover your coughing or sneezing, and wash your hands after blowing your nose, coughing or sneezing, or going to the bathroom.

It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object, like a packaging container, that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes, but this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads.

In general, because of poor survivability of these coronaviruses on surfaces, there is likely very low risk of spread from food products or packaging.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html

Well the thing is that in the media they have mentioned that the virus can live on paper for up to 24 hours and hard objects such as copper and plastic for up to 72 hours.

I haven't really gone to this trouble as some where they are doing a full washing up bowl full of liquid and soaking stuff in or simply giving it all a wash.

I get why people clean their door handles and other things people touch on a very regular basis but just wondered as I had seen packets of hobnobs and the like bobbing about in a bowl of soapy water.

@Natasha Whittam wrote:

@karlypants wrote:I will ask again...Has anyone on here started to wash their groceries? The meat that comes in the plastic trays, packets of biscuits etc?

I'm curious...

You're taking the piss right? Have you ever tried a Twirl dipped in Fairy Liquid?

I have yet to try that and it may well give it a twist.

I should try the next time I get a chance to buy one as ASDA home delivery is next to fecking useless now.

@karlypants wrote:I get why people clean their door handles and other things people touch on a very regular basis but just wondered as I had seen packets of hobnobs and the like bobbing about in a bowl of soapy water.  

I've taken to dropping biscuits/choc bars into a jar and throwing away the packaging.

@Natasha Whittam wrote:

@karlypants wrote:I get why people clean their door handles and other things people touch on a very regular basis but just wondered as I had seen packets of hobnobs and the like bobbing about in a bowl of soapy water.  

I've taken to dropping biscuits/choc bars into a jar and throwing away the packaging.

I started opening my bottles of beer in a funny way and pouring it into a pint glass making sure the bottle didn't come into contact and then washing my hand again.

After a couple I thought fuck it.

The advise on my post above is from an American Federal Government Agency, so I thought I'd see what the most current UK advise was - this is the best I could find so far - from the 6th April -


Can I get coronavirus from food packaging?

In theory, yes. But the government says the risk is low.
Scientists are still researching how long the virus can survive in different conditions. But an academic study published in March found that the longest the virus survived on any surface was three days. And certainly, experts suggest, it is very unlikely that a functioning virus could survive after four days.
The amount of time they survive partly depends on what material the surface is made from. For instance, no functional virus was found after 24 hours on cardboard. But it can survive longer on plastic and stainless steel – especially if the virus is encased in water or saliva.
Scientists also believe the amount of “functional” virus decreases on surfaces over time. So even if it’s still present after three days, it’s likely to be less infectious than the surface was to begin with.

So, should you clean food packaging?

The government says the risk of getting coronavirus from packaging is low, particularly if the package has been “moved, travelled, and exposed to different conditions and temperature”.
The Food Standards Agency (FSA) always tells shops and food businesses to clean the packaging, “in line with usual food safety practices”. But this has always been standard advice for the food industry, and is not specifically about coronavirus.
And the FSA does not extend this advice to ordinary consumers. However, it says that people should wash their hands after handling packaging, following the NHS handwashing advice.

https://www.channel4.com/news/coronavirus-everything-you-need-to-know-about-food-shopping

This seems to be the current official government advice - in a guidance to food businesses published 25th March

Food packaging

The World Health Organization (WHO) advises that the likelihood of an infected person contaminating commercial goods is low. The risk of catching the virus that causes COVID-19 from a package that has been moved, travelled, and exposed to different conditions and temperature is also very low.
While food packaging is not known to present a specific risk, efforts should be made to ensure it is cleaned and handled in line with usual food safety practices.
Cleaning should be in line with food hygiene practice and the environmental controls set out in the business’ HACCP. Staff should continue to follow existing risk assessments and safe systems of working. No additional precautions need to be taken.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-for-food-businesses/guidance-for-food-businesses-on-coronavirus-covid-19

The Food Standards Agency - of which my previous post referred links back to this Government advise to their industry.

https://www.food.gov.uk/news-alerts/news/fsa-publishes-guidance-for-food-businesses-on-coronavirus-covid-19

Thanks Sluffy. You seem to get paranoid in a situation like this as I do.

Nobody wants to take a risk with it.

Nice to hear that Boris is out of ICU now!

Some good news at least. Remarkable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-52222315

Just seen that Bonce and it's a nice story for a change.

@karlypants wrote:Just seen that Bonce and it's a nice story for a change.

Certainly is. Don't know about you KP, but this lockdown is sending my internal clock haywire. I sometimes forget if it's eight in the morning or eight at night.

@karlypants wrote:Thanks Sluffy. You seem to get paranoid in a situation like this as I do.

Nobody wants to take a risk with it.

Nice to hear that Boris is out of ICU now!

It does makes some of us think about our mortality that's for sure.

At my age and with my health condition I must be in the at risk category although I've not received any official notification to the effect.

I fairly certain that I'm probably ok if I did get the virus but my worry is that if I did need hospitalisation/ventilation, and demand is so high as to allocate on a priority basis, then my age and health would definitely count against me if say the choice was between myself and say a thirtysomething business woman from Preston - and really I couldn't disagree myself of such a choice.

The thing that annoys me most is when I venture out for a little bit of exercise is that I inevitably nearly get run over by joggers and/or cyclists who clearly are at times very much closer than the recommended 2 meters.

I have in my mind not only that they are frequently too close than they should be but also they are working hard and thus breathing hard and more frequently and 'pumping' out a great deal of breath that I inevitably will breath some of it in.

I don't know if others who are non smokers notice but I can often smell cigarette smoke a fair distance away from the smokers, most of which would have come from their breath.

The same must apply more so to the joggers and cyclists and surprise, surprise I've read this today -

20:27
Runners should be 10m away, says research

Anna Holligan
BBC News reporter cycling in The Hague
With the gyms closed and public transport to be avoided, many of us are running or cycling or simply walking to keep fit, commute or just catch a breath of fresh air. But a group of researchers are warning we should perhaps beware.
While the standard social distancing rule between 1–2 metres may be effective when you are standing still inside, according to a new simulation, people who are in motion should be given a wider berth to avoid passing on the Coronavirus.
In a simulation they found a pedestrian or cyclist sneezes, coughs or even just exhales, the saliva particles are left behind in the air.
Which means the person coming up behind you passes through this cloud of droplets.
By using methods used to enhance athletes performances, the teams from Eindhoven University of Technology and Leuven University found the greatest risk of infection exists in the slipstream.
On the basis of these results - which haven’t yet been published - they advise that those on the move should be given more of a social distance.
Walkers should get at least 4 metres, runners 10 metres and for cyclists at least 20 metres.
Something that’s pretty unrealistic in most cities.
And the teams have jumped the gun a bit, going to press before actually publishing a study, bypassing the normal route.
Jogging during the day has already been banned in Paris, this research may encourage us to think twice before overtaking, to ensure we’re getting a healthy breath of fresh air - rather than one that might include a strangers saliva particles.
Although there is no suggestion that cycling, running or walking is irresponsible during a pandemic. The advice in many places battling the virus is to stay at home as much as possible.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52225173

I've simply move well out their way if I see them coming or just been holding my breath for as long as I can until I'm as far past the joggers/cyclists if I haen't but I still have some of the bastards shouting at me to get out the way as the cycle up behind me.

So much for respecting each others space then.

The selfish pillocks don't even think I could be a carrier myself who hasn't reacted to the virus - but could give it them!  

Obviously I hope I'm not but it just shows how thick many people actually are.

Hope they all get joggers nipple or saddle sores - or both!




Yes good news about Boris, hope he makes a complete recovery.

@boltonbonce wrote:

@karlypants wrote:Just seen that Bonce and it's a nice story for a change.

Certainly is. Don't know about you KP, but this lockdown is sending my internal clock haywire. I sometimes forget if it's eight in the morning or eight at night.

Well in all fairness, I am drinking booze and eating more. My mum sent me a picture of her lunch with a glass of wine and it was only 12pm and it seems everyone is doing the same because there isn't much to do. She joked that we would all become overweight alcoholics by the time this ended!

After popping round with some groceries for my mum, the house further down I know are terrified of getting it. The daughter I think is 69 and the mum is getting on for 90 and they are stuck inside their house like everyone else and we all know it's depressisng.

I popped round to check on them and had quite a long chat with them through the window which helped a lot and help lifttheir spirits a bit due to their loneliness.

It's all just a sad and depressing situation right now.

At the moment my motto is, when in doubt, hit the couch. A little snooze can give you a lift.

@Sluffy wrote:

I fairly certain that I'm probably ok if I did get the virus

I'm picking this bit out of your post because this virus isn't targeting certain people whether it's age, gender or ethnicity, it is targeting everyone and there is no certainty at all with this.

But there was an article somewhere that said most people of a certain age died from this i think over 60?

The reason I am pointing this out is that from what you have said, I wouldn't want you or others to be ignorant to it if that makes sense.

@boltonbonce wrote:At the moment my motto is, when in doubt, hit the couch. A little snooze can give you a lift.

I have noticed that I am sleeping more on the couch.

To be quite honest I can't seen this going away for atleast 12 months.

Everywhere has a high risk of this having a second wave.

Does anyone else think the same?

I would be amazed if there isn't a second wave. It is the normal pattern for viral infections. Until we have a vaccine or herd immunity it won't go away. The bottom line is that more people are going to die and that most of them will be elderly and/or have underlying medical conditions. We can flatten the curve but we can't stop the virus killing people.

@karlypants wrote:

@Sluffy wrote:

I fairly certain that I'm probably ok if I did get the virus

I'm picking this bit out of your post because this virus isn't targeting certain people whether it's age, gender or ethnicity, it is targeting everyone and there is no certainty at all with this.

But there was an article somewhere that said most people of a certain age died from this i think over 60?

The reason I am pointing this out is that from what you have said, I wouldn't want you or others to be ignorant to it if that makes sense.

What I was saying was based on percentages really.

From what we seem to know so far of those we KNOW who had it something like only 3% have gone on to die from it,

However it is suspected that many people have caught it and survived, so many in fact that if the belief is right and added to those who are known to have it then the percentage rate of those going on to die is 1% or even lower.

Some like Wanderlust earlier in this thread believed there was an orchestrated government cover up of those dying from the virus NOT being added to the official total of deaths but that's just bollocks and him believing everything he sees on social media.  In fact any deaths outside those recorded of the virus in hospital (ie the NHS daily totals) ARE retrospectively added to the total by the Office of National Statistics -

Separate figures, published by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) also suggest the number of people dying with coronavirus is higher than the daily totals indicate.

The ONS examined registrations and found deaths in the community not included in the daily hospital deaths figures.

In the week to 27 March, for the 501 deaths recorded in hospitals the ONS also found 38 deaths linked to coronavirus in the community.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52167016

So that roughly a 4% rise on a 3% death total of KNOWN virus deaths - which is  basically 3.12% - so hardly statistically significant and again DOESN'T take into account the unknown number of people who have had the virus unknowingly (I have a nephew whose his father (my brother - who himself is undergoing cancer treatment) and I strongly think is one of them - although we of course don't know for sure - his wife having MS is scared shitless about possibly catching it herself - and my nephew caught whatever he did catch from his son who had it initially - all before lockdown too!  All are still well though.

Moving on we then look at the distribution of the deaths to age, which really starts to take off from 70 and over - I'm not there just yet!

So statistic wise I'm unlikely to catch the virus (who knows I may have had it already unknowingly and never realised it) and if I did the odds of it killing me are still in my favour PROVIDING I get the required hospital treatment/ventilation if I so need it - and that's the point I have worries about.

There's far more people at risk of catching the virus than me - all those doctors and nurses for a start - and I'm fairly sensible and level headed most of the time so I think there is a low risk of catching the virus in the current conditions and a more than decent chance I'd survive if I did.

There's not much point living in fear, you'd never cross a road for fear of getting knocked down if you did.

I'm not reckless, I accept I'm mortal but I may as make the most out of life as long as I'm able to and I'll try my best not to catch the virus whilst doing so.

Thanks for caring about me though - I do appreciate it!

Hope you and your family keep safe too - and despite anything else if you feel it is right to wash your hobnobs or whatever, then carry on doing it - it's your peace of mind and doing whatever you believe is the right thing to protect the ones you love, that counts.

@karlypants wrote:

Nice looking dude. Who is he?

I find the attitude of some police officers a little bit disturbing. What kind of halfwit talks about checking people's supermarket trolleys or telling a family not to play in their own front garden? Whatever happened to common sense?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52245937

I wonder if Twirls and Vimto are 'non essential'?

To some people of course, they're vital.

@xmiles wrote:I find the attitude of some police officers a little bit disturbing. What kind of halfwit talks about checking people's supermarket trolleys or telling a family not to play in their own front garden? Whatever happened to common sense?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52245937

They should be in the back garden.

@xmiles wrote:I find the attitude of some police officers a little bit disturbing. What kind of halfwit talks about checking people's supermarket trolleys or telling a family not to play in their own front garden? Whatever happened to common sense?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52245937

Its rare that the Police have been accused of this particular trait.

@Cajunboy wrote:

@xmiles wrote:I find the attitude of some police officers a little bit disturbing. What kind of halfwit talks about checking people's supermarket trolleys or telling a family not to play in their own front garden? Whatever happened to common sense?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52245937

They should be in the back garden.

Why?

@gloswhite wrote:

@xmiles wrote:I find the attitude of some police officers a little bit disturbing. What kind of halfwit talks about checking people's supermarket trolleys or telling a family not to play in their own front garden? Whatever happened to common sense?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52245937

Its rare that the Police have been accused of this particular trait.

@xmiles wrote:

@Cajunboy wrote:

@xmiles wrote:I find the attitude of some police officers a little bit disturbing. What kind of halfwit talks about checking people's supermarket trolleys or telling a family not to play in their own front garden? Whatever happened to common sense?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52245937

They should be in the back garden.

Why?

You obviously don't get my sense of humour.

The people in the apartment below mine are currently having a party in the communal garden. There are 6 people, of which only two live in the complex. I suspect the others are parents & siblings.

Should I do something?