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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » Keir Starmer - new Labour leader

Keir Starmer - new Labour leader

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61Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:44 pm

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Spoken to a few others who have quit Labour over this issue. Hope they (and you Bonce) reconsider, I still think the Labour Party is our only real option for change in this country and can be a vehicle for progressive politics. Right now there is plenty I disagree with, but the left is broad if we don’t unite it’s even more Tory rule.

62Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:51 pm

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:Spoken to a few others who have quit Labour over this issue. Hope they (and you Bonce) reconsider, I still think the Labour Party is our only real option for change in this country and can be a vehicle for progressive politics. Right now there is plenty I disagree with, but the left is broad if we don’t unite it’s even more Tory rule.
The phone calls/emails started early this morning, most of them urging me not to make a rash decision. Although it's been on my mind for a few weeks, I pondered long and hard about jacking it in. I have 60 days to reconsider, and, after a call from a friend inside Momentum urging me to fight from the inside, I've probably been swayed to retain my membership. As I've said, it's easier to join than leave.

63Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:35 pm

sunlight

sunlight
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Starmer is just having a cleanout. He was waiting for an excuse to sack her and he used that one to kill two with one stone.  She was a rival during the voting. Parties often have a cleanout when they reorganise and this excuse gave them a chance to sort out the anti-semitism stigma.

64Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:45 pm

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Ye fair point, the only positive I’ve seen is the positive media reaction. This sort of action will at least mean the vilification of Labour as anti-Semitic can come to an end.

65Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:45 pm

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
Sluffy, what the hell is going on?
Sorry my friend, but lately you've been extremely touchy. Whats brought all this to a head?
We know TROY is a pain in the bum, but he genuinely can't see it at times. As for XM being a troll, I don't think so, he's too busy with red buses and putting down everything the government does.  Very Happy
I also saw there was no response from XM, which is most unusual, does that mean you've cut him off in his prime? I hope not.

66Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:14 pm

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Quite agree glos. He's been like a sore with a bear head. XM is back by the way. Cool

67Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:45 pm

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Natasha Whittam wrote:

When did the Bumchums start recruiting outsiders?
Nuts will always be my number 1, yes i've been on ww lately but don;t get the same vibe i get on here. Its a larger site but still feel like an outsider on there, very cliquey (more so than on here)

68Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:52 pm

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:
@Natasha Whittam wrote:

When did the Bumchums start recruiting outsiders?
Nuts will always be my number 1, yes i've been on ww lately but don;t get the same vibe i get on here. Its a larger site but still feel like an outsider on there, very cliquey (more so than on here)

Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 2Q==

69Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:53 pm

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Sluffy please for the good of this site can you count to ten before you type and ban people like xmiles?

I've said this before but here goes again, you need yo take responsibility for how the site is now. You ban people on a whim and will not listen to anyone else's point of view. Please chill out and let the site get back to some kind of normality. 

I thought we were getting back to normal with Lusty and Boggers back but then you go and ban xmiles for no good reason.

70Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:54 pm

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
sorry love  Very Happy

71Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:55 pm

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:
sorry love  Very Happy

Very Happy Very Happy

72Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:10 pm

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Norpig's back safe. I've aborted my mission.
Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 94

73Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:37 pm

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Norpig wrote:
@Natasha Whittam wrote:

When did the Bumchums start recruiting outsiders?
Nuts will always be my number 1, yes i've been on ww lately but don;t get the same vibe i get on here. Its a larger site but still feel like an outsider on there, very cliquey (more so than on here)

It's extremely cliquey, the site is born out of a group of blokes who used to call themselves the Ant Hill Mob and seemed to consider themselves to be the 'boot boy' supporters of the club dating back to the early 1980's.

Obviously they are all a lot older and several have done very well for themselves but there is always a 'romanticised' belief by them that they still themselves as 'hard core' and the real 'protectors' of the club when needed!

As I posted above the threats and abuse from several of them to a poster known to be about 80 years of age, just because he didn't agree with the consensus of opinion (which was factually wrong anyway) and told/inferred that several of them were not the smartest (true as well but better not to have been said) was utterly appalling.

I posted to say that such behaviour was out of order and was banned without warning sometime later without posting much if anything on there in the interim.

I know the elderly gentleman was banned, so assumed my ban was for simply speaking out to stick up for him against the needless threats and abuse.

The good points about that site - and there are plenty, are that it is the first and biggest BWFC forum around, many of the posters do attend games (home and away) on a regular basis - so they see the players and managers close up and give an alternative narrative to listen to than that by the club or Iles, and they often are the first to hear what is going on within the club.

The bad points are the abuse and threats, their 'pack' mentality and the hounding off the site of anyone they take against.

There are a number of smart people who post on there and their knowledge, views and opinions are well worth listening to but unfortunately many tend just to behave in a loutish/laddish manner and don't appear to be tolerant to any view that doesn't match their own.

It will always be the biggest and busiest forum simply because it is the most well known and first usually with BWFC news but unless you like taking chemical substances, getting pissed, calling folk cunts and offering people out for a 'straightener', then perhaps it isn't the forum for you.

Another forum that has lost it's humour and warmth since Brexit, Anderson and how well/shockingly (delete as appropriate) the government is doing.

74Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:10 pm

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
KS very impressive on TV this morning. No Tories prepared to turn up for interviews on ITV...Scrutiny avoidance. The dismissal of our top civil servant has all the hallmarks of Cummings' machinations to overhaul Whitehall!

75Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:39 pm

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Starmer told to leave pub over Covid lockdown policies

Starmer told to leave pub over Covid lockdown policies
Close
The Labour leader is told he has "failed this country" for not opposing government lockdown policies.

Sir Keir Starmer was confronted by pub landlord Rod Humphris who angrily ordered him off the premises.

Sir Keir said he “profoundly disagreed” with Mr Humphris, who then got in to an altercation with a security guard as he told Sir Keir: "Get out of my pub".

Sir Keir later said “nobody wants a lockdown, but it was necessary”.

76Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:13 am

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Doesn't this idiot realise that even if Starmer and all the Labour MP's opposed it then it would have still gone through due to the 80+ majority? Looked like a set up to me.

77Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Wed May 05, 2021 12:12 am

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Labour set for huge election defeat in Hartlepool, internal polling suggests

Exclusive: Party’s own figures show only 40% of previous supporters pledge to back its candidate this time

Fewer than half of recent Labour voters in Hartlepool say they will back the party in Thursday’s crucial byelection, according to internal data based on the canvassing of more than 10,000 people, leading activists to fear a historic Conservative victory.

Labour insiders said polling from its ground campaign in the town showed only about 40% of the party’s previous supporters had pledged to vote for its candidate, Paul Williams.

Such an outcome would deal a significant blow to Keir Starmer’s leadership and a decisive Conservative win in a north-east England seat that has elected a Labour MP at every parliamentary election since 1964.

Labour sources said they were in “huge trouble” in Hartlepool and also in danger of losing control of Sunderland and Durham councils for the first time in half a century.

More here -

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/04/internal-polling-suggests-labour-heading-for-defeat-in-hartlepool-byelection

Fwiw - Labour is defending a narrow 3,595-vote majority in a town it has held since Harold Wilson was in Downing Street nearly 60 years ago. In 2019, its candidate Mike Hill crept to victory after the Brexit party took 25% of the vote and split the pro-leave electorate. Hill is standing down over sexual harassment allegations, which he denies.

A generational shift in political allegiances has seen neighbouring constituencies fall one by one to the Conservatives – six in the last general election alone – and post-industrial areas across England now form the bedrock of Johnson’s 80-seat majority in the Commons.

Williams, a local GP and former MP for neighbouring Stockton South, has sought to convince Hartlepudlians to give Labour another chance, arguing that the party is under new leadership both locally and nationally. He told the Guardian last month that its challenge was to convince people to trust Labour.

Rolling Eyes

78Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri May 07, 2021 9:57 am

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Well, getting rid of JC seems to have done the trick.

79Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri May 07, 2021 10:53 am

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The party is in turmoil as far as i can see. Working class people now see labour as a load of champagne socialists and that the party has been taken over by left wing middle class people who pander to immigrants and ignore their old voting base.

Not sure what Starmer can do to change those perceptions but the party are just not trusted at the moment.

80Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri May 07, 2021 11:18 am

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:The party is in turmoil as far as i can see. Working class people now see labour as a load of champagne socialists and that the party has been taken over by left wing middle class people who pander to immigrants and ignore their old voting base.

Not sure what Starmer can do to change those perceptions but the party are just not trusted at the moment.
I've been out and about talking to people over the past week, and what has worried me about a large number of ex Labour voters, is that they're spouting opinions that could have come straight from the mouth of Tommy Robinson.

81Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri May 07, 2021 11:19 am

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:The party is in turmoil as far as i can see. Working class people now see labour as a load of champagne socialists and that the party has been taken over by left wing middle class people who pander to immigrants and ignore their old voting base.

Not sure what Starmer can do to change those perceptions but the party are just not trusted at the moment.
Not sure that is entirely the case. I think the traditional working class vote has simply dried up. Kids of working class families no longer see social injustice on the same scale as in the post industrial and post war periods and have become consumerist generations with even the poorest families having TVs, phones and other luxuries even if they're unemployed.
Whilst Starmer may be more representative of the middle classes, I just don't think there's any appetite for socialism any more - as demonstrated by Corbyn's failure to get traction.
Add to that the cultural shift towards self-interest and there's not much left (pardon the pun)
For Labour to survive with a view to thriving in the future it's not a matter of  centre v left of the party as neither will succeed, but rather finding a way to become a credible opposition to the government based on policies and strategies that highlight inequity in society rather than trotting out (again apologies) old cliches. Repackage and relaunch.
Problem is they'll be moving in on Libdem territory.

82Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri May 07, 2021 11:48 am

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Trust me Lusty i know plenty of working class men in Bolton who regularly talk about all the things i've mentioned in my previous post. My facebook page has plenty of evidence!

83Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Fri May 07, 2021 3:58 pm

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
It looks as though the Labour party are struggling with Long Corbyn.

84Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Yesterday at 5:49 pm

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker

85Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Yesterday at 5:55 pm

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Labour hold Warrington.

86Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Yesterday at 8:30 pm

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Seems Starmer is going to deal with sorting out 'long Corbyn' as left winger Rayner get's the chop behind the scenes.

Angela Rayner removed from party chair role - Labour sources

Labour sources have confirmed that the deputy leader of the Labour Party, Angela Rayner, has been removed from her roles as party chair and campaign co-ordinator.

This isn't expected to affect her role as deputy leader of the party, which is an elected position.

87Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Yesterday at 8:48 pm

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Sluffy wrote:Seems Starmer is going to deal with sorting out 'long Corbyn' as left winger Rayner get's the chop behind the scenes.

Angela Rayner removed from party chair role - Labour sources

Labour sources have confirmed that the deputy leader of the Labour Party, Angela Rayner, has been removed from her roles as party chair and campaign co-ordinator.

This isn't expected to affect her role as deputy leader of the party, which is an elected position.
Looking for an easy scapegoat. It wasn't that long ago he was berating Boris for blaming everyone but himself for the failing Brexit negotiations.
Have a look at yourself, Keir.

88Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Yesterday at 9:00 pm

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Elections 2021: Labour insiders on Starmer, what went wrong and how to fix it

Full article here -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57024995

Extracts -

While the pandemic has blunted Starmer's ability to oppose the government outright, some who supported his leadership are wondering why he is stumbling in much more favourable political weather when it should have been the government that was on the back foot, over "sleaze".

One of them told us that Starmer's task now, is "to incinerate the politics of the far left". Meanwhile some on the left are calling for "radical change".



A prominent politician who spent some time campaigning in Hartlepool blamed the hollowing out of the party during the Corbyn era, with strong organisational, as much as political expertise and experience, lost. Another, who spent a lot of time on the town's doorsteps, said the party was afflicted by the phenomenon of "long Corbyn".


One frontbencher said at least people weren't angry with Labour any more. They just weren't particularly inspired either.

This, he assessed, was a weird election where people were interested in vaccines and the lifting of restrictions. "People ask me 'Is the Tory sleaze stuff cutting through?' The honest answer is virtually nothing is cutting through."

(As I stated in my amatuer analysis a week or so back, Labour simply is no longer seeing things through the electorates eyes, they still hold dear values that most people no longer share because their mindset is different then peoples were twenty, thirty or even more years ago.

They simply are not connecting to many of the electorate anymore).

"The party nationally is just saying to people 'I'm on your side'. We are not bringing stuff forward to help really transform the lives of people in the North. The party still looks and sounds like a metropolitan, middle class party."



"People get a sense of who Boris is and what he's about," said one Yorkshire MP. "You know they've got the measure of him. The problem with Keir is that people don't have the measure of him yet."


Steve Reed was sent round the broadcast studios on Friday morning to assert the problem wasn't Starmer, but the party. And the leader will "push harder" to change the party, not vice versa.

Insiders say as a reaction to the election results, two things are likely to happen. First, changes in staffing at the Labour HQ, including a strengthening of the communications team. Second, a reshuffle of the shadow cabinet.

(Rayner's sacking confirms the first element and and inevitable Shadow Cabinet reshuffle will clearly soon follow).



89Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Yesterday at 9:18 pm

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@boltonbonce wrote:
@Sluffy wrote:Seems Starmer is going to deal with sorting out 'long Corbyn' as left winger Rayner get's the chop behind the scenes.

Angela Rayner removed from party chair role - Labour sources

Labour sources have confirmed that the deputy leader of the Labour Party, Angela Rayner, has been removed from her roles as party chair and campaign co-ordinator.

This isn't expected to affect her role as deputy leader of the party, which is an elected position.
Looking for an easy scapegoat. It wasn't that long ago he was berating Boris for blaming everyone but himself for the failing Brexit negotiations.
Have a look at yourself, Keir.

Fwiw my view is that Starmer has been hamstrung with taking on the polices of Corbyn (partly in order to get himself elected as leader in the first place) and has not been able to deliver a different vision of the party because of it - and thus if you like - the same outcome as the 2019 General Election.

Think of it as the first half of our season when we had Phoenix team but under the leadership of Evatt who clearly didn't like what he took on and could not do anything about it until the January window.

Thursday's elections was if you like, when Sharon realised Phoenix plan was utter rubbish and she acted to do something about it by ditching them and allowing Evatt to build his own team and give it a new revamp, to become more relevant and more successful.

I guess it is up to the Labour Party to stand behind Starmer and back him to succeed as Sharon did with Evatt - and that means dumping 'Corbynism' like Sharon dumped Phoenix.

It's not saying that Labour should sell its soul but rather bring its soul into relevance with the current times and becoming relevant once again to the people who cast their votes.

There's a reason why dinosaurs died out and that is because they didn't adapt to change.

If you get my drift...?

90Keir Starmer - new Labour leader - Page 3 Empty Re: Keir Starmer - new Labour leader Yesterday at 9:37 pm

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Dinosaurs couldn't adapt to change. I'm probably a dinosaur myself, but what can I do?

If you're a believer in God, when others think you're a fool for doing so, do you 'adapt' by going with the flow?

I'm a socialist. Like I'm a Wanderer. I won't be dying out. If people don't want us, so be it. I've already left the party, so I've no dog in this fight.

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