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Vince Watch

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151Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 10:37

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Ten Bobsworth wrote:Had another chat with my son yesterday. He was brought up as the only Bolton supporter in his school but he's had his own business since soon after he left school.

Times though are hard. One of his  main suppliers went to the wall last month and most of his other suppliers are really struggling because they cannot get the materials they need through the pandemic. Its looking like his business will have to close too.

Hopefully your lads business will manage to get through this.

My daughter was furloughed and went through a companywide redundancy process but she was one of the lucky ones to keep her job - for now at least.

Times are clearly hard and I hope we can all get through it as unscathed as we can but everyday I still read about folk who just continually flout the 'rules' and help perpetuate Covid to spread and get worse for the people who end up sick through catching it, the NHS who is again becoming swamped with cases, those who have had their other medical issues postponed indefinitely because of the growing number of beds taken up by Covid patients and the economy itself.

Still no doubt they think as long as they do what they please who gives a fig about anybody else!

England v Barbarians: Thirteen Barbarians players charged by RFU after coronavirus protocol breached

The players left their hotel bubble - contrary to team protocols - to have dinner, and a number of players also went to a central London pub.

BBC Sport understands former England captain Chris Robshaw, who was among the players who apologised for the breach, is one of the players charged.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/54732478


I highlight this in particular.

Now I'm not a big rugby fan but plenty are and no doubt can easily recognise the faces of star players like an England captain. These days everyone has a phone with a camera and everyone is on social media so isn't it obvious to Robshaw and the other players that going out in public that there is more than a fair chance that someone or other will take a snap of them and tweet it/post it on Facebook, etc and sooner or later it will get to the knowledge of those at the RFU?

Of course it will!

Yet he and his mates still went outside their bubble wilfully and deliberately.

It's not as though they would not have known there were consequences - Archer was fined and dropped for breaching the cricket 'bubble', Fodden and Greenwood again fined and dropped for breaching the football one.

You just despair (well I do) at the continued selfishness and self entitlement belief of some/many people to do what the like and don't give a fuck about everyone else.

We get what we deserve I suppose.

As I say hope your son (and everyone else) manages to come through this despite of everything and everyone who put themselves before everyone else.



152Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 10:53

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Thanks, Sluffy. If he can't get the supplies, the business will have to close and its looking unavoidable.

But he has no overdue creditors and has always kept bang up to date with HMRC. He could have taken advantage of VAT deferral but hasn't, so he doesn't have anything like that lurking in the background.

VAT deferral will have been a lifeline for many small businesses struggling to survive but I gather the good folks at Old Trafford have taken advantage of the deferral opportunity whilst paying £millions to shareholders.

153Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 11:03

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:
@Ten Bobsworth wrote:Best thing to do, Sluffy, is ignore him.

Anyway our hero's back in the news today with his diamonds from the sky. Its all in the Guardian so it must be kosher.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/oct/30/ecotricity-founder-to-grow-diamonds-made-entirely-from-the-sky

Does Sluffy want to remove FSMs or keep them? That’s all I’m trying to understand.

FSM are part of the welfare system.

I've never advocated their abolishment.

But that isn't what the discussion is about, it is in respect of Rashford's campaign to provide FSM out of term time.

I have pointed out at FSM don't actually cover weekend provision either in or out of term time, so doesn't there appear to be a gaping hole in its universal provision if indeed that is Rashford's aim?

My issue is and has always been about individual child welfare.

The government report I flagged up states the same, namely it isn't the system about feeding children that identity's neglect it is why isn't the parent isn't feeding the child at home in the first place?

Schools identifying such neglect are key in this respect.

Feeding children from school canteens out of term time when there are no teachers there can't identifying such neglect and as such are simply just a system to fill a perceived need (by Rashford and others of the general public but not by the government) but not to identify child neglect and abuse.

If you can't or deliberately don't want to grasp that, then that's down to you.

154Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 11:19

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
So you believe FSM’s shouldn’t be extended outside of term time - because it inhibits the identification of child neglect?

155Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 11:37

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:So you believe FSM’s shouldn’t be extended outside of term time - because it inhibits the identification of child neglect?

No, I never said that.

I've constantly said that any child who is hungry should be fed.

What I have also been saying is that a FSM system outside of term time (where no teachers are dealing with the children throughout the day) will not detect neglect of a child and that identification of child neglect is the prime concern to be identified as quickly as it possibly can and be dealt with.

It really isn't difficult to understand what I've been saying so I can only conclude you are (and have been for a little while now) just arguing for arguing sake to simply amuse yourself.

I thought we might have moved on from that by now, seems not though.


156Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 11:47

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
You said you don’t believe in the cause. All I’ve been trying to understand is what you mean by that, the cause is to feed kids - which you clearly believe in. 

I completely agree with the notion that kids going hungry can be an indicator of neglect and feeding them is not a resolution to that wider issue. I’d say that’s painfully obvious unfortunately but it is not the purpose of FSM or of Rashford’s campaign. Hence my confusion over what it is you’ve been getting at.

So don’t start this nonsense about arguing for the sake of it, you haven’t been clear and I’m allowed to try and find out what your point is.

157Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 11:50

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@wanderlust wrote:
Think I mentioned it a year or two ago, but a senior Jewish Council whose name eludes me defined anti-semitism in order to provide clarity and included in that definition were criticisms of the State of Israel - effectively stating that the State and the religion are inseparable.
Accordingly any criticism of Israel, the Israeli Government, their actions etc etc are deemed as anti-semitic under their definition.

I think you will find that in 2018 the Labour party adopted (despite the objections of Corbyn) the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's definition of anti-Semitism. Although it includes drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis and holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel there is no restriction on criticising either Israeli policies or politicians.

158Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 12:18

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:You said you don’t believe in the cause. All I’ve been trying to understand is what you mean by that, the cause is to feed kids - which you clearly believe in. 

I completely agree with the notion that kids going hungry can be an indicator of neglect and feeding them is not a resolution to that wider issue. I’d say that’s painfully obvious unfortunately but it is not the purpose of FSM or of Rashford’s campaign. Hence my confusion over what it is you’ve been getting at.

So don’t start this nonsense about arguing for the sake of it, you haven’t been clear and I’m allowed to try and find out what your point is.

Of course I've been clear about what I've been saying I've spelt it out to you several times already.

Don't come blaming me that you've clearly not read what I've written!

I've had to correct you a number of times that I hadn't said the things to which you obviously thought I had after you skim read or even didn't bother to read what I wrote.

Either that or you were just playing your normal games again.

And I know which I believe it to be!

159Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 12:25

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
I don't think you've been clear in any way, 'I don't believe in the cause' apparently relates to the cause of using FSM to identify neglect - something that hadn't even been discussed up to that point.

160Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 12:26

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Silly me. I thought the debate on this thread was all about individuals holding themselves out to be public-spirited, caring and sharing souls yet, when you scratch off the veneer, they appear to be self-serving, egocentric, nest-feathering tax dodgers.

161Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 12:29

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
@Ten Bobsworth wrote:Silly me. I thought the debate on this thread was all about individuals holding themselves out to be public-spirited, caring and sharing souls yet, when you scratch off the veneer, they appear to be self-serving, egocentric, nest-feathering tax dodgers.

Laughing

162Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 13:05

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:I don't think you've been clear in any way, 'I don't believe in the cause' apparently relates to the cause of using FSM to identify neglect - something that hadn't even been discussed up to that point.

You what???

Look back to post 43 where I was calling parents 'inhuman' sending their kids out hungry!

I've been talking about the issue of neglect long before you decided to chip in!

FSM DOESN'T identify neglect, it is simply a mechanism of feeding children irrespective if they've been neglected or not.

I've been saying that the issue of FSM is masking what the actual of causes for the need are in the first place and how those cause can be satisfactorily addressed - maybe even eventually do way with the need for FSM at all (or alternatively give FSM to all).

Simply introducing a system that perpetuates itself, is open to abuse by some/many parents and is open ended and presumably a permanent cost burden to the tax payer, is not an objective I support.

Isn't it far better to deal with kids not being fed - ie neglected - and dealt with at source than provide a perpetuating system at open ended cost to the state, that feeds the kids of people who are capable of feeding their own and not identify the ones who actually are being neglected at home?

I believe so.

And before we go full circle once again I'm not against feeding children who aren't being fed but the issue clearly should be WHY aren't they being fed in the first place and dealing with the cause at source and FSM is simply not designed to do that.

163Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 13:08

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Look, I agree with you that it doesn't resolve the cause - but that's not what it's intended to do - and i think I've said that multiple times now.

So let's just draw a line under it given we both know the others position now.

164Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 13:25

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Did anyone on here actually have free school meals when they were kids? I did and i always felt slightly ashamed by it.

We were a one parent low income family and the stigma is hard to shake off.

165Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 13:28

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:Did anyone on here actually have free school meals when they were kids? I did and i always felt slightly ashamed by it.

We were a one parent low income family and the stigma is hard to shake off.
What I hated at our school was that they had the FSM kids line up in a separate queue, thus marking them out for ridicule.
Unforgivable in my opinion.

166Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 13:31

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@boltonbonce wrote:
What I hated at our school was that they had the FSM kids line up in a separate queue, thus marking them out for ridicule.
Unforgivable in my opinion.
Sounds familiar  Crying or Very sad

167Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 13:56

BoltonTillIDie

BoltonTillIDie
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:
@boltonbonce wrote:
What I hated at our school was that they had the FSM kids line up in a separate queue, thus marking them out for ridicule.
Unforgivable in my opinion.
Sounds familiar  Crying or Very sad
Yes, I was on free school meals. I also hated the fact they had to check my name against a list to show I was entitled to free school meals. So much so the money I earned from babysitting. I used to use to buy my own lunch.

168Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 14:29

Natasha Whittam


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@BoltonTillIDie wrote:So much so the money I earned from babysitting. I used to use to buy my own lunch.

Full marks to you, your folks must have been proud.

Shame you spoilt it by becoming a mod Very Happy

169Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 14:33

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:Did anyone on here actually have free school meals when they were kids? I did and i always felt slightly ashamed by it.

We were a one parent low income family and the stigma is hard to shake off.
Perhaps it would be better to just give all kids free school meals.

They do currently do this for the first couple of years at Primary school.

170Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 14:50

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Vince Watch - Page 6 1_AG-Fitness

171Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 14:52

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Norpig wrote:Did anyone on here actually have free school meals when they were kids? I did and i always felt slightly ashamed by it.

We were a one parent low income family and the stigma is hard to shake off.

I qualified for them but my parents would not claim.

As I grew a bit older I could start to see and understand how they would do without themselves rather to be seen to need help from the 'social' or 'school boards' back then - it was seen as a mark of failure with a stigma attached to them and their children and they weren't having that for me and my brother.

As I got older still I could also begin to see and understand that as they both worked (when there was work - they never signed on the dole ever to my knowledge) that they had also been contributing to the state and it was their right/entitlement to claim state assistance - but they never would (apart from their state pensions and bus pass on their retirement).

Similar to BTID, when I was old enough to get a Saturday job/work through the holidays, etc, I paid for my own school meals but that was really only my 'A' level years.

I did however eventually convince them to apply for a free bus pass for me which I was entitled to and I did this by walking to school and back, which was over three miles away, everyday and in all weathers, just to make my point until they accepted I meant it.

The point is you do the best for your child in the way you believe is right.

I dare say non of us who have contributed to this thread have ever been sent out of the house starved of food nor have ever done it to our own children either.

There is no longer any stigma in claiming benefits unlike in our parents time, which obviously is a good thing.

The bad thing though is plenty now see the system as a way of life and there to be exploited rather than its intended use as a safety net until people were able to get back into work again.

172Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Fri Oct 30 2020, 21:39

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
The bad thing though is plenty now see the system as a way of life and there to be exploited. Can't  we just concentrate for a moment? Who in the world of footie is exploiting the system the most?

173Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Sat Oct 31 2020, 01:27

Hip Priest

Hip Priest
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
@Norpig wrote:Did anyone on here actually have free school meals when they were kids? I did and i always felt slightly ashamed by it.

We were a one parent low income family and the stigma is hard to shake off.
Yes, I had free school meals. My dad died when I was 8 and my mum who was then 50 years old had chronic asthma and was in and out of hospital on a regular basis. Out of a class of 32 there were 2 of us on free school meals and I used to dread every Monday morning when dinner money was collected. It was so embarrassing.

174Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Sat Oct 31 2020, 01:30

Hip Priest

Hip Priest
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
@Ten Bobsworth wrote:The bad thing though is plenty now see the system as a way of life and there to be exploited. Can't  we just concentrate for a moment? Who in the world of footie is exploiting the system the most?
How much longer do we have to put up with this shite. Get a life man.

175Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Sat Oct 31 2020, 06:59

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Hip Priest wrote:
How much longer do we have to put up with this shite. Get a life man.
Getting to you, is it? Have you been swallowing shite for years without knowing it was shite and don't like having it pointed out that it was all shite after all?

And having a life is posting shite on a footie forum at half-past one in the morning, is it?

I haven't got where I am today by posting shite on a footie forum at half-past one in the morning.



Last edited by Ten Bobsworth on Sat Oct 31 2020, 09:37; edited 1 time in total

176Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Sat Oct 31 2020, 08:51

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
We used to DREAM of living in the corridor!


Ronnie Barker recorded summat similar once. I had it on tape but can't find it now. It was better than this. Maybe Boncey will have it. Over to you Boncey.



Last edited by Ten Bobsworth on Sat Oct 31 2020, 09:35; edited 1 time in total

177Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Sat Oct 31 2020, 09:29

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@karlypants wrote:
Perhaps it would be better to just give all kids free school meals.

They do currently do this for the first couple of years at Primary school.
I'd vote for that and help pay for it with an Image Rights Tax that stops the 'gilded elite' dodging their fare share. Might have to do a few other things  too.

178Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Sat Oct 31 2020, 14:10

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Another document arrived at Companies House yesterday, only five and a half years late.

What does it say?

It says 20 shares of 1p each have been cancelled in the Ecotricity Group.

What does it mean? 

It means that Cousin Vinnie now owns 180 x 1P shares instead of 200. He still owns 100% so it makes no difference except that Cousin Vinnie gets £7million of somebody else's money for 20P.

Read all about it in the Guardian. That Conn geezer's as hot as mustard in holding 'the games gilded elite to account'. Won awards for it, he has.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03521776/filing-history

179Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Sat Oct 31 2020, 14:25

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Ten Bobsworth wrote:Another document arrived at Companies House yesterday, only five and a half years late.

What does it say?

It says 20 shares of 1p each have been cancelled in the Ecotricity Group.

What does it mean? 

It means that Cousin Vinnie now owns 180 x 1P shares instead of 200. He still owns 100% so it makes no difference except that Cousin Vinnie gets £7million of somebody else's money for 20P.

Read all about it in the Guardian. That Conn geezer's as hot as mustard in holding 'the games gilded elite to account'. Won awards for it, he has.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03521776/filing-history
Vince Watch - Page 6 21cbfac999a468002505b2ac1520b75b758de915286e7da37fcf5bbf5d2ab395

180Vince Watch - Page 6 Empty Re: Vince Watch on Sat Oct 31 2020, 14:45

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Norpig wrote:
Vince Watch - Page 6 21cbfac999a468002505b2ac1520b75b758de915286e7da37fcf5bbf5d2ab395
Vince Watch - Page 6 Z

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