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Vince Watch

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31Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 11:20

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
signed as well  :like:

32Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 11:28

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Ten Bobsworth wrote:
M called round the other day. One of nature's real gems, is M.  She calls every couple of months or so and we have a chat and  a cup of tea. COVID says she can't come in at the moment so she sat on the front wall whilst we talked at a safe distance. Her son's murderer had been released from prison and was back living round the corner from M's house. He'd served two years of a four-year sentence for the murder.
Four years for murder?  ..dunno..

33Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 12:11

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@boltonbonce wrote:
Four years for murder?  ..dunno..
He admitted to the killing but pleaded guilty to manslaughter. Two blows to the head apparently. M's son was a bright lad at school and a talented footballer but he suffered from mental health problems later. When he started to sink into his depressive moods, M would  try, unsuccessfully, to get him some in-patient treatment. It was hard to find and he'd take to drinking heavily. He was killed by somebody he drank with.

34Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 12:33

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I suggest Boris gets Rishi to bring in an Image Rights Tax (IRT) that stops vastly overpaid Premiership footballers from getting away with paying only 19% (or less) on exploiting their 'image'.
It'd help towards the extra food costs and shouldn't IRT too much. Saint Marcus would surely support that.



Last edited by Ten Bobsworth on Mon Oct 26 2020, 14:04; edited 2 times in total

35Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 13:59

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Government should be ensuring kids can eat not footballers. Rashford has done a fantastic job and deserves nothing but credit.

We're all in this together eh Boris?  Rolling Eyes

36Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 14:05

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Kevin De Bruyne's got an image rights company. So has Vince's buddy, Hector Bellerin, but Saint Marcus seems to be something of a frontrunner.

37Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 14:12

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Norpig wrote:Government should be ensuring kids can eat not footballers. Rashford has done a fantastic job and deserves nothing but credit.

We're all in this together eh Boris?  Rolling Eyes
Who made sure you ate? Government or parents?
Governments should make sure there are satisfactory safety nets.

38Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 14:47

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Ten Bobsworth wrote:
@Norpig wrote:Government should be ensuring kids can eat not footballers. Rashford has done a fantastic job and deserves nothing but credit.

We're all in this together eh Boris?  Rolling Eyes
Who made sure you ate? Government or parents?
Governments should make sure there are satisfactory safety nets.

I also think back to when I was little and how my parents did without to make sure that my brother and I were fed, clothed and sheltered from them working hard for a living and going without themselves if need be.

It used to get right up my nose when I paid for my daughter and her older half-sister for meals when I knew plenty that were playing the system and getting free school meals for their kids.

No kids should have to go hungry in this country, the state already provides for them, you need to ask what the parents are doing with the money they get if they are using it first and foremost to feed and keep safe their own children.

A local school has a traveler's site in their catchment area, kids arrive at the school (and are picked up afterwards) in their parents BMW 4x4's, all on free school meals.

If they can find money to have new BMW's they have money to feed their kids.

The government isn't the problem it's all those who rip it off who are.

And don't lose sight that it's the government's money in the first place - it's not - it's the money from the taxes hardworking decent people like you and I pay.

People like us who go out to work. pay our taxes, and if need be go without so our children can have what they need, not the countless numbers who think the country owes them a free living.

I can't understand how any parent would let their child go hungry, I'd starve first rather than let my child do without, not go out a get myself the latest iPhone or buy little Johnny a new escooter!

The parent has the responsibility not the state and for you and I to pay for them - as well as our own!

39Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 14:55

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Ten Bobsworth wrote:
Who made sure you ate? Government or parents?
Governments should make sure there are satisfactory safety nets.
Growing up in a one parent family when my Mum was sometimes out of work then both.

40Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 14:59

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
You are both missing the point. A lot of the parents struggling now and even before Covid are in work but still can't make ends meet.

Would you rather they packed in work and relied solely on the Government?

I have to say i find both your attitudes on this quite sad and depressing.

41Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 15:00

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Sluffy wrote:If they can find money to have new BMW's they have money to feed their kids.

Are you suggesting everyone on benefits has a brand new BMW?

42Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 15:23

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@Sluffy wrote:If they can find money to have new BMW's they have money to feed their kids.

Are you suggesting everyone on benefits has a brand new BMW?

I'm suggesting plenty play the system - in fact I know a fair few that do - it's widespread and been going on for years and years.

It's more how you choose to live your life to me, I just prefer to be generally honesty, many take that as me being generally stupid.

Maybe they are right.

After all I'm paying my way and contributing in paying theirs too.

That's not very bright of me is it?

I still do it though, I can't think and behave like them whether I'm stupid or not.



Last edited by Sluffy on Mon Oct 26 2020, 15:41; edited 1 time in total

43Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 15:39

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Norpig wrote:You are both missing the point. A lot of the parents struggling now and even before Covid are in work but still can't make ends meet.

Would you rather they packed in work and relied solely on the Government?

I have to say i find both your attitudes on this quite sad and depressing.

Ask yourself why are a lot of parents struggling, is it because they spend more than they earn or get in benefits?

What have they spend their money on, foreign holidays, new phones for everyone, e-scooters, ipads, large screen tv's, tattoos, fags, booze, drugs and a million and one other things that they could cut back on to feed their kids.

If your kid is starving then sell your phone, tv, e-scooter, or whatever but don't just stop feeding them ffs!

I find your acceptance of people not putting their child's needs before their own and sending their kids out hungry for someone else to feed them to be far more sad and depressing - basically inhuman of them in fact.

44Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 15:55

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Such compassion Sluffy  Rolling Eyes

As i said before there are lots of people out there struggling even with jobs, Yes there may be people playing the system but if you'd rather the kids of those people went hungry then that's where we differ.

Do you think most of the people struggling really are splashing all their cash on phones. fags and the rest? Seems to me to be an argument or statement straight out of the Daily Mail and one that is not strictly true.

Do you really imagine the people struggling really want to have to go to foodbanks and get vouchers for food to feed their kids and put up with the shame they must feel? 

I grew up in one parent family with a Mum who was often out of work and when she did have a job was usually a low paid factory job or waitressing. I only now can appreciate the lengths she went to to keep me and my Brother fed. If there had been foodbanks i'm pretty sure  we would have been using them at certain points of my childhood.

45Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 16:14

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Oh dear, Sluffy.

46Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 16:43

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Norpig wrote:Such compassion Sluffy  Rolling Eyes

As i said before there are lots of people out there struggling even with jobs, Yes there may be people playing the system but if you'd rather the kids of those people went hungry then that's where we differ.

Do you think most of the people struggling really are splashing all their cash on phones. fags and the rest? Seems to me to be an argument or statement straight out of the Daily Mail and one that is not strictly true.

Do you really imagine the people struggling really want to have to go to foodbanks and get vouchers for food to feed their kids and put up with the shame they must feel? 

I grew up in one parent family with a Mum who was often out of work and when she did have a job was usually a low paid factory job or waitressing. I only now can appreciate the lengths she went to to keep me and my Brother fed. If there had been foodbanks i'm pretty sure  we would have been using them at certain points of my childhood.

Nah I never said the state shouldn't feed a starving child what I did say though was that a parent should not send a child out who is starving - a completely different thing entirely.

I bet your mum never sent you or your brother out hungry - ever - am I right?  In fact no need to answer because I know that will be the case, we are from the same part of town and that was how things were when we were growing up even though you are a generation younger than me, things would still have been the same.

Exactly the same with my parents, my father was in the building trade and my mother in the mills so neither well paid and both often out of work, my brother and I came first always.  As a kid you don't realise at the time but when you have a family of your own and money is tight you KNOW what you have to do - and that isn't sending your child out on to the streets to school, hungry.

Part of my career has been dealing with family's in the community, so yes I can speak from experience of seeing first hand how they play the system and at times USE their children to get what they want.

I don't need the Daily Mail or anyone else to do my thinking for me, thank you very much.

There's simply too many people who think they are 'entitled' that they can do what they want without consequences - and by and large they are correct, someone WILL feed their kids, the state WILL provide a home and benefits for them (even if they've never contributed anything into the pot in their lives) - why should they worry or be responsible?

Doesn't how people behave during the virus - and I'm talking about everyone from the rich and famous to the dumb and ignorant - show us all that most people only care about themselves and fuck the rest of us?

We get what we deserve and that's why a well meaning young man is doing what he believes to be right but what the likes of you and me will ultimately pay for because too many people simply don't seem to have an issue about not feeding their own kids?

Something's gone badly wrong with society to get to that point don't you think?

I do.

It just seems to be acceptable these days though and the governments seen to be the ones that are failing.

Why is it the governments fault if a parent is happy to send his kid to school hungry - unheard of in my time - and yours too!

Where's the community, the family, friends and neighbours rallying around to help, even teach the parents, how to live and look after their kids?

Nah, it's the governments fault.

Always the government's fault, never the parents.

47Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 16:45

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I've known M through the voluntary work she did for over 30 years for a young peoples charity. She has no status or possessions and is still volunteering. But no-one will know much about her. She has no celebrity status, she's not feted by the media, she just gets on with helping people in need of help and she's been doing it week after week, year after year.

48Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 16:51

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
If you really believe any parent would be happy to send their kids to school hungry whatever the circumstances then you are very wrong.

There are good people out there doing all they can to feed their kids so being lumped in with the skivers is one more ignominy they need to put up with, good work Sluffy.

As for the community helping out, unless you've had your head up your arse for the last few days then you can see what's happening all across the country. The Government, who by the way won lots of seats up North and promised we were all in this together now decide to wash their hands of the issue and accuse Rashford of virtue signalling.

49Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 17:02

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Life simply isn’t just black and white.

50Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 17:16

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Norpig wrote:If you really believe any parent would be happy to send their kids to school hungry whatever the circumstances then you are very wrong.

There are good people out there doing all they can to feed their kids so being lumped in with the skivers is one more ignominy they need to put up with, good work Sluffy.

As for the community helping out, unless you've had your head up your arse for the last few days then you can see what's happening all across the country. The Government, who by the way won lots of seats up North and promised we were all in this together now decide to wash their hands of the issue and accuse Rashford of virtue signalling.

Next time you go to your kids school ask them if they have pupils arriving there hungry - it certainly happens where I live, many even hold unofficial breakfast clubs to feed them.

I doubt where I live is much difference to anywhere else in the country in that respect?

The 'good' people you talk about WON'T be sending their kids out hungry in the first place so I'm not lumping them in with anybody.

Oh and don't give me this north and south divide shit - I live in Royal Berkshire and can see the Queen's home from my windows but there's plenty of kids arriving at schools around here having not been fed by their loving and caring mums and dads.

It's not hard to put your children first and I fear for the child if they can't.

But you have it your way, it's all the governments fault.

I'm sure parent's won't be sending their children out hungry under a Labour government will they...?

The issue isn't a political one, it is a social one, one where it as become an acceptable thing to do.

How can sending a child out hungry, in this country in the twenty-first century, be seen to be something that is acceptable by the community in which these people live?

Beyond my comprehension?

But clearly it is, or they wouldn't be doing it.



51Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 17:31

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I've never said it's all the Governments fault but they should be there to help out if needed and not rely on the good people of this country to do their job for them. 

And for the record a Labour Government would have done an awful lot more about this than the current Government.

52Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 17:51

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Norpig wrote:I've never said it's all the Governments fault but they should be there to help out if needed and not rely on the good people of this country to do their job for them. 

What job?

It is the parents responsibility to look after their child - not feeding them is neglect!

What I've been saying when it gets to that stage surely, grandparents, freind and neighbours of the family should naturally be stepping in to teach the parent/s better, how to cope, how to budget, how to look after their kids - that is what society is about isn't it, helping one another?

At least that's how it was when I was brought up and that's how I act and behave in my community.

@Norpig wrote:And for the record a Labour Government would have done an awful lot more about this than the current Government.

It's a shame then that a overwhelming chunk of the country, including so many northern Labour lifelong held constituencies, believed that Labour was simply not fit for purpose under Corbyn and the hated and derided tory party was seen to be a less worse option!

Maybe they remember the note Labour left when they were voted out of power saying they had spent all the country's money?

Vince Watch - Page 2 David-Cameron-brandishes--008

‘I’m afraid there is no money.’ The letter I will regret for ever

Liam Byrne

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election

53Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 19:57

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
It could of course be a coincidence that the Beeb and selected media just happened to arrive at a food bank at the same time as Saint Marcus but it’s the kids that count.

54Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 22:12

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I had a long and interesting chat with a housing benefits manager from a large East Midlands local authority about a month ago. He told me how much he enjoyed his job helping out those in genuine need of help. He estimated they were about 30% of the people he dealt with.

It wasn't a scientific estimation and I've no idea whether it was accurate or not but, whatever the percentage, it cannot be right to turn your back on those in genuine need because there are charlatans and scroungers out there.

But even though I accept that more can be done (there always can), there's something suspect about the emergence of a massively overpaid footballer as the champion, the conscience and the spokesperson of the needy and deserving.

55Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 22:16

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
He grew up in Wythenshawe which is a massive council estate and he comes from a poor background. I would say he deserves massive praise for at least trying to do something. He could quite as easily done nothing and ignored it and lived the usual rich footballer life.

56Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 22:19

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Ten Bobsworth wrote:there's something suspect about the emergence of a massively overpaid footballer as the champion, the conscience and the spokesperson of the needy and deserving.

I think it's quite refreshing, he is definitely a great role model for the kids of today.

57Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 23:47

Hip Priest

Hip Priest
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
It's a good job that it's only these dreadful, scrounging, BMW driving slappers of mothers who play the system and cheat the government innit Sluff. I mean, if massive companies like Google, Starbucks, Amazon, Apple etc were allowed to start fiddling their figures and avoiding paying taxes then this country and it's Government really would be in a right mess wouldn't it. 

I know some people are dead cynical and go as far as to suggest that the Tories always look after the interests of their mates in big business but I think that's just a heap of hooey, don't you?

58Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon Oct 26 2020, 23:55

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
There are a number of issues here.
Obviously Rashford is doing the decent thing.
Whether or not using the money to bolster the existing networks, schemes and charities already in situ is the better strategy to achieve the same end as Rashford's proposal is debatable but I thought a constructive talk of partnership would be in order - Rashford would make a great campaign front man and increase the chances of the public match-funding+ any Government investment.
As regards parents taking responsibility for their feeding their own kids, I agree that they should but the reality is that some folk can't, either through delinquency e.g. the kids of parents with a dependency/illness or from poverty due to misfortune - or simply not having access to the excellent guide to household budgeting above Smile 
There has to be a safety net for kids in trouble.

59Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Tue Oct 27 2020, 07:30

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I expect Saint Marcus will have advisers that ensure that he pays pay lower rates of tax on his image rights than the man who cleans his windows but I can't help wondering who it is that's tipping off the media that the great man is going to be paying a visit to the local foodbank with his mother.

Is it Marcus himself or does he have an agent to do that sort of thing for him? And what about the  regular volunteers? Are they told in advance that they are going to get the closest thing to a royal visit  and have the place prepared as if it was one?

Great for the image though. Kerching. And if there's an anti-government angle too, what's not to like if you are a Guardian reader?

But hasn't Man U always been synonymous with self-interest first? Read Wartime Wanderers if you don't know.

60Vince Watch - Page 2 Empty Re: Vince Watch Tue Oct 27 2020, 08:29

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Hip Priest wrote:It's a good job that it's only these dreadful, scrounging, BMW driving slappers of mothers who play the system and cheat the government innit Sluff. I mean, if massive companies like Google, Starbucks, Amazon, Apple etc were allowed to start fiddling their figures and avoiding paying taxes then this country and it's Government really would be in a right mess wouldn't it. 

I know some people are dead cynical and go as far as to suggest that the Tories always look after the interests of their mates in big business but I think that's just a heap of hooey, don't you?

Clearly you have not troubled yourself to read what I've said on here a number of times in the past before you posted that as I've said plenty times that there is massive abuse at the system from both ends namely dodging paying tax at the top end and screwing the social benefit/welfare/housing systems at the other.

Both are wrong.

And if you've got some cock-eyed idea that if the Tories think it is alright for their 'mates' to rip the system off with paying insufficient taxes then it is only fair game for the 'poor'(and presumably in your mind Labour voters?) to rip the benefit system off to even things up a bit, then you've got your wires crossed because 'two wrongs don't make a right'.

Cut away all the bullshit and the bottom line is simply if people want to send their kids out on to the street hungry then that is deliberate neglect of them.

There is simply no need for it and the safety nets are already there to help prevent this.

Nobody will let a child starve in this country and if the kids parents asks for help from anyone at all - family, friends, neighbours, social services, charities, the church/mosque, absolutely anyone, they will get it.

I'd rather go out and beg on the streets if I had to rather than let my child starve, wouldn't you???

There is absolutely no need for any caring parent/guardian to send any child out of their home to school (or anywhere else for that matter) unfed and hungry.

This is not a political issue it is clearly a social one - it is basic care of your own child/children and if the parent isn't doing that then clearly the child is at risk in that environment and something more than giving the kid a free school meal is urgently required to ensure their safety.



Last edited by Sluffy on Tue Oct 27 2020, 10:23; edited 2 times in total

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