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Vince Watch

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991Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Tue Apr 27 2021, 07:59

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I've been wondering. Melanie Maynard House is in recognition of what exactly and how much did Saint Marcus actually donate to Fareshare in his kick start to Sainthood?

Fareshare aren't saying and Marcus is ever so modest. 

But the headlines today are about who paid for the £58K redecoration of the Number 10 flat overseen by eco-designer Lulu Lytle. I wouldn't pay Lulu in buttons but I'm still wondering what Lord Rodborough has done with the £millions he's 'borrowed' from Ecotricity. Could Rodborough Fort have had eco-designers in?

992Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Tue Apr 27 2021, 10:01

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Cousin Vinny's discovered LinkedIn. 




Maybe he can now Link In to Ecotricity's former FD, Paul Wheatcroft. He lists these as his 

Key Achievements:

• Stabilised cash and profit levels following a few difficult years before I joined.
• Group turnover increased from under £30m to £140m in 8 years.
• Closely managed growth, created group cash management systems.
• Completed 3 acquisitions, including Forest Green Rovers FC.
• Re-financed all wind and solar farms in 2 tranches, low interest, raising £90m.
• Placed 4 corporate mini-bonds (unsecured debt) with the public, raising £50m.
• Created 5-year strategic business plan.
• Purchased 25% of shares of nearest competitor (Good Energy).
• Built complex model to obtain bank funding for takeover of competitor.
• Obtained (£13m) working capital facilities with HSBC.
• Implemented SAP BPC for Budgeting/Forecasting/Planning/Reporting.
• Recruited new Board of Directors – commercial, retail, technology.
• Built solid contacts with banks, corporate finance bodies, changed from local audit/tax to KPMG.
• Investigated/implemented major SAP changes.
• Chose/begun implementing SAP Success Factors for HR.
• Obtained construction finance to build out numerous wind and solar farms.
Spent 6 years working to bring issues with HMRC relating to earlier years to a satisfactory conclusion.

993Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Tue Apr 27 2021, 19:52

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Come on Barrow

994Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Tue Apr 27 2021, 20:56

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
FGR 0-2 Barrow

995Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Tue Apr 27 2021, 21:45

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@boltonbonce wrote:FGR 0-2 Barrow
That'll do nicely, Boncey.

996Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Wed Apr 28 2021, 08:32

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
The thought for today comes from Warren Buffett:

'What we learn from history is: people don't learn from history.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9518277/HENRY-DEEDES-sees-MPs-vent-fury-Post-Office-scandal.html

997Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Wed Apr 28 2021, 09:48

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker


Still no sign of MUCS Enterprises accounts (no surprise there) but what about the Wanderers?

The last time we saw audited accounts for BWFC was in March 2018 when Ken Anderson signed off and filed the 2017 accounts. He then promptly arranged for notices to be sent to about 6,000 shareholders of the AGM when the accounts of Burnden Leisure were presented for approval.

There was a bit of a shortfall in governance standards, seeing as how there was no-one else willing to take on the responsibilities of being a director, but its hard to fault the communication efforts of Bolton's 'rogue' chairman.

998Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Thu Apr 29 2021, 07:03

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

999Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Fri Apr 30 2021, 07:02

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
The whole shooting match, eh?
Tin pot loss-making football clubs?
Vanity projects?
£millions drawn from loss-making businesses with massive unaffordable debts?
Tax dodges?
COVID loans?
We'll not mention the strides but let me see, what rhymes with Eustice! 

1000Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Sat May 01 2021, 08:30

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Meet Exeter's chairman. The names familiar.

https://www.exetercityfc.co.uk/news/2020/june/board-update-june/

Exeter haven't filed their 2020 accounts yet but at least they aren't overdue like those of Saint Marcus. Nice if you take all the privileges of limited liability status whilst dodging the obligations.

Only Cambridge and Tranmere of the leading nine clubs in League 2 have filed their 2020 accounts so far.

Tranmere have revalued their land and buildings at £28million. How much did FV pay for Bolton's?

1001Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Sat May 01 2021, 10:37

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker

1002Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Sat May 01 2021, 10:38

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Advertising deal? Will we become the pretty little thing stadium? Very Happy

1003Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Sat May 01 2021, 11:23

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@karlypants wrote:Advertising deal? Will we become the pretty little thing stadium? Very Happy

Could be the Boohoo stadium if we don't go up!

Fwiw Kamani was linked to buying the club (or rather the hotel) near the end of the Admin period.



1004Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Sat May 01 2021, 13:10

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@karlypants wrote:Advertising deal? Will we become the pretty little thing stadium? Very Happy

No need to name the stadium after me. A free replacement box will do.

1005Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Sat May 01 2021, 14:01

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Do we really want to sell the Hotel? In normal times it is a good source of money surely?

1006Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Sat May 01 2021, 14:42

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Norpig wrote:Do we really want to sell the Hotel? In normal times it is a good source of money surely?

Depends entirely on the financial position and plans of the owner obviously.

I think Kamani is more interested in property than clothes and maybe he was sniffing around to see if he could get the hotel for cheap from the Administrator at the time.

The hotel (FVWL Hotel Ltd) can't be sold without the security on it of £5m being settled with Michael James (Prescot Business Park - really) first - so I don't really think PBP are under any presure to get their hands on their £5m any time soon, so I can't see any sale of the hotel for now.

Home Bargains shirt sponsorship however was only for this seasonso it could be that Kamani may be looking to sponsor the shirts for next season.

I can't seem to find the duration of the current deal with the Universityfor the stadium sponsorship - although there was a big fuss at the time about it being a big tie up between the club and the community via the university - which Sharron seems to have carried on since her arrival - so I'd be a little surprised if he was here for that - but then again I don't know how badly Covid has dented the University's balance sheet - if at all?

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2018/august/welcome-to-the-university-of-bolton-stadium/

My guess is that Kamani will be sponsoring the shirts for next season and nothing substantially more than that, we'll find out soon enough anyway.

Fwiw Kamani seems to be a City fan judging by a quick look at his twitter account.



Last edited by Sluffy on Sat May 01 2021, 14:49; edited 1 time in total

1007Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Sat May 01 2021, 14:44

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@karlypants wrote:Advertising deal? Will we become the pretty little thing stadium? Very Happy

No need to name the stadium after me. A free replacement box will do.

It doesn't surprise me that you need a new box Nat. Very Happy

1008Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Sun May 02 2021, 07:20

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Norpig wrote:Do we really want to sell the Hotel? In normal times it is a good source of money surely?
You'll never pass GCSE Business Studies at this rate, Norpig.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03674979/filing-history

1009Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Sun May 02 2021, 17:51

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Instead is just sneering at me just explain it because i honestly don't understand any of the documents.

Has the Hotel been put into liquidation now and why does Kenocchio's name keep appearing?

1010Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Sun May 02 2021, 19:09

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Norpig wrote:Instead is just sneering at me just explain it because i honestly don't understand any of the documents.

Has the Hotel been put into liquidation now and why does Kenocchio's name keep appearing?

The hotel is a business.

The business is a limited company, which means the ownership of it is by those who hold shares in it.  It is called a limited company because the liability of those who own the shares for any debt the business builds up and can't pay off is 'limited' to the face value of the issued shares.

So if say I had a company and took it to the 'Dragons' Den' on TV and one of the dragons wanted to invest in it for 50% of the company, then I would issue another share in the company so that there were now two shares (I would have needed to create one for myself when setting up the company) and although the Dragon might have invested say £100k in my business the share he would receive would normally have a face value of just £1.

He (or I) could always sell our share at some later date for hundreds or even thousands of pounds but the face value of the share would always be a pound - and if the business ever did go bust, whoever owned the share at the time would be liable from his own personal wealth up to the value of the amount of that share.

This is done so you don't lose your house, car, or even the shirt off your back if things do turn out bad - and gives people the confidence to build and invest in companies knowing their risk is ultimately limited.

When Eddie Davies bought the club and hotel he basically ended up by having three seperate (but interrelated) companies to do so - one for the football club (Bolton Wanderers Football and Athletic Club), one for the hotel (Bolton Whites Hotel) and the 'head' company they both answered to (Burnden Leisure) but operated independently from it.

Ken Anderson and Dean Holdsworth bought the shares in Burnden Leisure and the other companies through their own companys - Inner Circle Investments and Sports Shield BWFC - and thus became the new owners of everything.

To cut a long story short, the football club couldn't cut its expenditure enough to match the income it was bringing in and without Eddie plugging the gap from his own pocket anymore it basically went bust, dragging down the other two company's with it.

The Administrator decided that the company's were not worth saving but their assets (the stadium, car parks, land and hotel, etc), could be sold off to someone else as they would receive more money from a sale than a liquidation - and that's what happened with Sharon and Mike James /PBP forming (well Parminder Basran initially) Football Ventures (Whites) to basically take the place of Burnden Leisure, FVWL Football Ltd to take on the club and FVWL Hotel Limited to take on the hotel.

So as far as most people (including yourself - no disrespect intended of you - or them) are concerned nothing has changed - but in law, in fact a great deal has.

Once the assets from Burnden Leisure, Bolton Whites Hotel and BWFAC had been sold on to Sharon, the remaining shell's of those company's had to be wound up by being liquidated - which is what you are basically viewing in the link Bob posted.

Anderson has long gone, the hotel is still very much alive (but now owned under a different company name) and the club also.

(The 'old' name of Bolton Wanderers Football and Athletic Club has been 'transfered' from the Administrator to FV, in order that the clubs 'history' lives on and isn't lost through liquidation).

It really is complexed stuff understanding Company Law and company accounts and those of us who do, have been trained in a professional capacity and have many years work experience behind us in those specialisms - so there's no need to feel as though you aren't understanding things - most people simply don't (and never will!).

As for the hotel it hasn't really paid for itself since it was built, iirc it did make some profits for a few years but also showed losses in other years too.

No doubt part of FV plan on buying the club with the hotel is to increase revenue from that business but unfortunately they've not really had enough time to do so before Covid hit.

Hopefully things will improve for the hotel in the coming years.

Hope that makes things a bit clearer for you?



Last edited by Sluffy on Sun May 02 2021, 20:57; edited 1 time in total

1011Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Sun May 02 2021, 20:53

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Thanks Sluffy  :good:

1012Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Sun May 02 2021, 21:25

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Norpig wrote:Thanks Sluffy  :good:

That's ok mate.

Funnily enough I was just editing my post to make it easier to understand as you posted - so I guess you must have got the gist of it from what I initially put down.

If you or anyone else want's to ask anything about all this just ask and I try to explain things as simply as I can.

The bottom line though is that BWFC (like all other professional clubs) is/are a business first and foremost and is/are required to act within the laws the governs companies - whereas most fans see it as some sort of 'thing' that only exists on the pitch and everything else doesn't matter/ is irrelevant.

That's why there was such a big mismatch recently when the owners of the 'big six' clubs wanted to set up the ESL - and the fans didn't - the owners viewed what was right for the business whilst the fans viewed what was best for the game - hence the huge disparity.

The same could be said of Anderson's actions in keeping the club which was basically insolvent going for so long whilst the fans (such as Wanderlust) believed he had robbed the club blind for his own benefit and didn't pay the players (or others) on time because he was immoral.

He might well have been immoral but the audit of the books have shown he didn't rob the club and more or less kept it alive (after Eddie's death) just long enough for a buyer to be found and the club to be sold to FV - even though that meant not paying the players and bills on time!

Ultimately the company dictates what happens on the pitch and not the other way around as most fans seem to think it does (if they even think about the company that owns the club at all!).

1013Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Sun May 02 2021, 22:04

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Norpig wrote:Instead is just sneering at me just explain it because i honestly don't understand any of the documents.

Has the Hotel been put into liquidation now and why does Kenocchio's name keep appearing?
Don't take it personally, Norpig. Its just a bit of lampooning at the absurdity of ill-informed commentary on BWFC's finances. Its been going on for years and is just the same with Vince (and Rashford). That's why Vince Watch exists.

Ken Anderson's record, with the help of Eddie Davies, was actually quite good but most folk preferred to believe media mindlessness, Supporters Trust tripe and Beeno balderdash. They still do.

1014Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Sun May 02 2021, 22:45

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Ten Bobsworth wrote:
Don't take it personally, Norpig. Its just a bit of lampooning at the absurdity of ill-informed commentary on BWFC's finances. Its been going on for years and is just the same with Vince (and Rashford). That's why Vince Watch exists.

Ken Anderson's record, with the help of Eddie Davies, was actually quite good but most folk preferred to believe media mindlessness, Supporters Trust tripe and Beeno balderdash. They still do.
Have a care. Spelling it with a double e was clever, but doesn't let you off the hook. As a proud member of the Dennis & Gnasher Fan Club, I take great exception to your associating The Beano with balderdash.
For future reference, I'm also a member of The Desperate Dan Pie Eaters Club, The Famous Five Club, and The Outlaws Club. The last being the most dangerous due to its weapons stash. Don't mess with us Bob.

Vince Watch - Page 34 Img_1510

1015Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Sun May 02 2021, 23:53

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
The only club I used to be in was the Odeon club.

Anybody else in it too?

We used to sing this (although the words were still the same as this, the tune was a bit more modern than this older version - and there was a 'bouncing ball' type think that used to tell you when to sing the words - if you get what I mean).



Happy days!

1016Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon May 03 2021, 07:10

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@boltonbonce wrote:
Have a care. Spelling it with a double e was clever, but doesn't let you off the hook. As a proud member of the Dennis & Gnasher Fan Club, I take great exception to your associating The Beano with balderdash.
For future reference, I'm also a member of The Desperate Dan Pie Eaters Club, The Famous Five Club, and The Outlaws Club. The last being the most dangerous due to its weapons stash. Don't mess with us Bob.

Vince Watch - Page 34 Img_1510
Have you told the committee of The Desperate Dan Pie Eaters Club that you've turned to veganism, Boncey? Just wait till Boris (or Carrie Antoinette) find out.

1017Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon May 03 2021, 07:17

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Dan's cow pies are the vegan option. We've kept it quiet to avoid any fuss. I'm still trying to get him to stop smoking.
A dustbin on the end of a drainpipe is less than ideal, as pipes go.
Vince Watch - Page 34 JpzXfPnpwkXb3JdVwVM6Q9s4WLbdZHWuBxED3Q48ydnRSHs7Y4Oj7RytWv_WNv_52bpuVyZCsXKYXYLctyWgPbZhwDDFiEu-C-wF

1018Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon May 03 2021, 07:23

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@boltonbonce wrote:Dan's cow pies are the vegan option. We've kept it quiet to avoid any fuss. I'm still trying to get him to stop smoking.
A dustbin on the end of a drainpipe is less than ideal, as pipes go.
Vince Watch - Page 34 JpzXfPnpwkXb3JdVwVM6Q9s4WLbdZHWuBxED3Q48ydnRSHs7Y4Oj7RytWv_WNv_52bpuVyZCsXKYXYLctyWgPbZhwDDFiEu-C-wF
Dan's cow pies vegan? Is there nothing sacred anymore?

1019Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon May 03 2021, 12:45

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
This is what every Bolton fan should be remembering on 3 May:




Nowt about it in the Beeno from the looks of it.

1020Vince Watch - Page 34 Empty Re: Vince Watch Mon May 03 2021, 12:49

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
He made Boys Own in 1953 though.
Vince Watch - Page 34 Tilleysvintagemagazinessheffield28072018_0001

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