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Wigan in Administration

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Ten Bobsworth
Hip Priest
Banks of the Croal
Natasha Whittam
karlypants
sunlight
gloswhite
MartinBWFC
luckyPeterpiper
BoltonTillIDie
Sluffy
wessy
boltonbonce
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wanderlust
observer
Whitesince63
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691Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 7:59

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Thanks Sluffy. Wigan plainly have a few TWERPS as fans but I suspect we've got more if only on the law of averages but, whatever Howard's game was, he was using inside info in a way that was unprofessional in my book.

You will also remember that someone else, who was likely to have inside info, leaked that the BWFC/FV deal had been done BEFORE it was agreed and signed off by Ken Anderson's lawyers. I expect they and KA were not overly impressed.

The Bahraini connection may or may not be a coincidence. The reports don't suggest any 'big bucks' deal but I feel sure Wigan fans will be content for the club to survive.

Is this btw the same Malachy Brannigan that's previously been involved with Hull City, Sheffield United, Derby County, Coventry City the EFL and a host of other companies? Gets about a bit, doesn't he?

692Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 13:29

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Ten Bobsworth wrote:Thanks Sluffy. Wigan plainly have a few TWERPS as fans but I suspect we've got more if only on the law of averages but, whatever Howard's game was, he was using inside info in a way that was unprofessional in my book.

You will also remember that someone else, who was likely to have inside info, leaked that the BWFC/FV deal had been done BEFORE it was agreed and signed off by Ken Anderson's lawyers. I expect they and KA were not overly impressed.

The Bahraini connection may or may not be a coincidence. The reports don't suggest any 'big bucks' deal but I feel sure Wigan fans will be content for the club to survive.

Is this btw the same Malachy Brannigan that's previously been involved with Hull City, Sheffield United, Derby County, Coventry City the EFL and a host of other companies? Gets about a bit, doesn't he?

He's been at Dundee United, Derby and Sheffield United from the quick search I did on him, before posting above, so no doubt he's the same bloke that you've tracked down too - used to be the Finance Officer before progressing to MD level at the clubs.

It seems from what the Wigan forum posters are saying that the Baharani owner is Al Jasmi and it is his son/son-in-law Talal, who is the bloke who will run the club with Brannigan the CEO, the ex-Wigan director Bramwell the accountant, Markham the 'Moneyball' expert (he's ex-Liverpool uni, football finance degee graduate, so I'm wondering if he has any links to our old friend Kieran Maguire??) with presumably Gottmann being the 'fixer' for the deal being the link to Gibralter where the company is from(?).

The article below is from the young lad who did all those videos - seems to have got work for the MEN on the back of them too - good for him, hope he does well for himself -

A Bahrain-based investor is closing in on an imminent deal to buy Wigan Athletic.
The Latics, who currently sit at the bottom of Sky Bet League One, have been in administration for the last nine months.
And while it looked as though the takeover saga was going to continue to drag on further after talks had hit a standstill, it is understood that a deal could be just around the corner.
The Begbies Traynor administrators have lowered their asking price in order to agree to a deal, but it would still involve the investor paying the non-football creditors 25p in the pound, meaning that Latics would avoid the mandatory 15-point deduction.
The Bahrain-based investor is in a position to seal the takeover quickly, having already had their proposed directors passed and their proof of funds verified by the English Football League.
The first step is for both parties to sign the sales and purchase agreement, while the second step would be to provide a deposit.
As the Wigan Council has already agreed on the transfer of the lease to the DW Stadium and Christopher Park, the final step would be to sign the membership agreement to transfer the football share, along with the agreement to pay the non-football creditors 25p in a pound.
Following the promising developments, it looks like there is finally light at the end of the tunnel for everyone associated with Wigan Athletic.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/bahrain-based-investor-close-imminent-19982353

Oh and there are plenty of TWERPS everywhere, not just following football clubs, maybe I'm even one at times for somethings but you've just got to steer your way through them the best you can.

Ignorance and naivety 'can' be fixed through education and experience (although you can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink) but negative traits such as hatred, anger, bitterness and revenge, can't.

Going back to Wigan, it seems to me that it could well be some sort of vanity purchase for the 'son' to play with by becoming a sort of 'football manager video game player' in real life.

Seems with them 'squeezing' the Admins fees downwards that they are looking to do it within budgets, so may be on a similar path as Sharron is taking us on, whatever that is?

Can't see them (or Sharron) getting their money back any time soon though?

693Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 13:58

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Sluffy wrote:

He's been at Dundee United, Derby and Sheffield United from the quick search I did on him, before posting above, so no doubt he's the same bloke that you've tracked down too - used to be the Finance Officer before progressing to MD level at the clubs.

It seems from what the Wigan forum posters are saying that the Baharani owner is Al Jasmi and it is his son/son-in-law Talal, who is the bloke who will run the club with Brannigan the CEO, the ex-Wigan director Bramwell the accountant, Markham the 'Moneyball' expert (he's ex-Liverpool uni, football finance degee graduate, so I'm wondering if he has any links to our old friend Kieran Maguire??) with presumably Gottmann being the 'fixer' for the deal being the link to Gibralter where the company is from(?).

The article below is from the young lad who did all those videos - seems to have got work for the MEN on the back of them too - good for him, hope he does well for himself -

A Bahrain-based investor is closing in on an imminent deal to buy Wigan Athletic.
The Latics, who currently sit at the bottom of Sky Bet League One, have been in administration for the last nine months.
And while it looked as though the takeover saga was going to continue to drag on further after talks had hit a standstill, it is understood that a deal could be just around the corner.
The Begbies Traynor administrators have lowered their asking price in order to agree to a deal, but it would still involve the investor paying the non-football creditors 25p in the pound, meaning that Latics would avoid the mandatory 15-point deduction.
The Bahrain-based investor is in a position to seal the takeover quickly, having already had their proposed directors passed and their proof of funds verified by the English Football League.
The first step is for both parties to sign the sales and purchase agreement, while the second step would be to provide a deposit.
As the Wigan Council has already agreed on the transfer of the lease to the DW Stadium and Christopher Park, the final step would be to sign the membership agreement to transfer the football share, along with the agreement to pay the non-football creditors 25p in a pound.
Following the promising developments, it looks like there is finally light at the end of the tunnel for everyone associated with Wigan Athletic.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/bahrain-based-investor-close-imminent-19982353

Oh and there are plenty of TWERPS everywhere, not just following football clubs, maybe I'm even one at times for somethings but you've just got to steer your way through them the best you can.

Ignorance and naivety 'can' be fixed through education and experience (although you can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink) but negative traits such as hatred, anger, bitterness and revenge, can't.

Going back to Wigan, it seems to me that it could well be some sort of vanity purchase for the 'son' to play with by becoming a sort of 'football manager video game player' in real life.

Seems with them 'squeezing' the Admins fees downwards that they are looking to do it within budgets, so may be on a similar path as Sharron is taking us on, whatever that is?

Can't see them (or Sharron) getting their money back any time soon though?
Hasn't Sharon got some of her money back already and Jeff Thomas all of his? Yes I know that's only the shares and they were only part paid to start with but don't you think some money must have come in from somewhere to pay off Eddie's widow and splash a bit more cash on the team.

Loan notes or summat else? I wouldn't rush to rule out the 'summat else' alternative but we'll have to wait and see.

Did you notice that Dale Vince didn't use up all the Fergietime allowed under COVID? I can't see that he would have done that out of any commitment to openness and transparency.

694Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 14:22

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Ten Bobsworth wrote:Hasn't Sharon got some of her money back already and Jeff Thomas all of his? Yes I know that's only the shares and they were only part paid to start with but don't you think some money must have come in from somewhere to pay off Eddie's widow and splash a bit more cash on the team.

Loan notes or summat else? I wouldn't rush to rule out the 'summat else' alternative but we'll have to wait and see.

Did you notice that Dale Vince didn't use up all the Fergietime allowed under COVID? I can't see that he would have done that out of any commitment to openness and transparency.

I've no idea how EDT was settled - and for what amount?

Maybe it was waived even?

I've not bothered to read the CH documents on the secured loan but unless it had a specified payment date, then I can't understand why it was prioritised and settled (in full) than say the Administrators debt?

I can only assume that some deal was struck that freed up some budgeted funds to buy back the shares from Thomas 9and some of Sharron's) and which also allowed greater cash flow flexibility for wages to bring in players to improve the team?

As for Vince, sorry, I don't follow him so don't know what he's been up to.

FGR seem to be flying high this season, it will be a shame for their fans if it all does come crashing down on them though if sooner or later Vince is found to have had his hands in the cookie jar - as I can't see how they can ever be seen to be a financially sustainable club with the fan base they have to exist on.

695Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 14:58

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Let me explain it to you this way, Sluffy. 

Dale Vince invested all of £2 in the Ecotricity Group which over the last ten years has had reported losses aggregating £27.6m. During the same period, in addition to his salary, Vince has been drawing c.£1m p.a. for himself in interest free loans and spent c. £m13 on Forest Green Rovers. 

Where's the money come from? Well its come from borrowing (or debt in other words) and eventually debts have to be repaid, don't they? Well they usually do.

So what's happened in this case? Some of the money was owed to banks and some of it to Eco-bond holders and due for repayment or further extension this year until along comes COVID and not long afterwards Coronavirus Loans.

The loans are, of course, intended to help out businesses suffering from the pandemic not to bale out lame ducks in debt because of over-borrowing, personal spending of owners and vanity projects like tin pot football teams projected into the EFL without regard to whose money is actually funding it.

Nevertheless it seems that Ecotricity has already managed to snaffle £15m in Coronavirus loans and is in the process of trying to get another £25m. 

Will it succeed? It might just but who do you think will be picking up the tab?

696Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 15:09

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Thanks Bob.

When I said I've not been following Vince, I probably should have said that I'd not been following him outside of your thread - which I do read - so I did know some of your explanation already, so my apologies for you having to set it out for me again.

I suspect that Vince will one day have to 'pay the piper' and his house of cards will tumble but I doubt us taxpayers will ever get our full money back.

C'est la vie I supose.

697Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 15:15

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sluffy wrote:Thanks Bob.

When I said I've not been following Vince, I probably should have said that I'd not been following him outside of your thread - which I do read - so I did know some of your explanation already, so my apologies for you having to set it out for me again.

I suspect that Vince will one day have to 'pay the piper' and his house of cards will tumble but I doubt us taxpayers will ever get our full money back.

C'est la vie I supose.
The house of cards HAS to fall. You don't want to look like a pair of TWERPS. Very Happy

698Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 15:16

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Sluffy wrote:Thanks Bob.

When I said I've not been following Vince, I probably should have said that I'd not been following him outside of your thread - which I do read - so I did know some of your explanation already, so my apologies for you having to set it out for me again.

I suspect that Vince will one day have to 'pay the piper' and his house of cards will tumble but I doubt us taxpayers will ever get our full money back.

C'est la vie I supose.
Do you think that BWFC might have applied for a Coronavirus loan? Do you think it might have got one and, if so, who do you think has got the most, the owners of BWFC or the owners of tin pot FGR?

Why not ask your MP? No point me asking mine.

699Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 15:45

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Ten Bobsworth wrote:Why not ask your MP? No point me asking mine.

He's blocked you?

700Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 15:51

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Natasha Whittam wrote:

He's blocked you?
TWERP

P.S. And so is she I'm afraid.



Last edited by Ten Bobsworth on Mon 8 Mar - 15:58; edited 1 time in total

701Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 15:54

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

boltonbonce wrote:The house of cards HAS to fall. You don't want to look like a pair of TWERPS. Very Happy

Have we agreed on what the definition of a TWERP is, if so I must have missed it?

What I am getting at is that maybe I'm in that category already, maybe the definition is that it is 'someone who thinks differently to others'?

If so isn't the prerequisite of even being a forum poster at some point or other necessitate holding a different position than others (sometimes the majority of others) - if so we can all be classed as TWERPS depending on the view point we hold.

Fwiw I tend to be a far more analytical person than an emotional one - just how I am I guess, so I simply don't follow the crowd without having a little 'think' about things first.

I don't know how to describe it but I sort of like ask myself questions immeadiately, like 'is that true', 'why would that have happened', 'what's caused that', 'why would that have been the outcome and not something different', and a million and one other things too - I guess I'm trying to 'understand' the position rather than 'accept' the position as gospel as stated.

That's why I don't really hold any allegiance to anyone, I'm not biased politically, religiously or morally, I know everyone can be wrong sooner or later, including myself - I simply try by not taking everything as gospel right from the start, to limit my chances of being so.

If people want to believe whatever they want, then that's up to them, I simply like to be on a bit more firmer ground to make my decissions that's all.

702Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 16:03

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

I won't ask which constituency you are in, Sluffy, but you may as well forget it if you have a Labour MP.

There are precious few that will reply if you are not a constituent. Frank Field used to be one of the few but sadly an MP no longer.

703Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 16:15

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Ten Bobsworth wrote:Do you think that BWFC might have applied for a Coronavirus loan? Do you think it might have got one and, if so, who do you think has got the most, the owners of BWFC or the owners of tin pot FGR?

Why not ask your MP? No point me asking mine.

Well we've been told that FV furloughed staff so it would make sense that they availed themselves of other government aid as well.

I've not looked into the criteria for awarding the amount of the loans (I guess it related to historical turnover?) so I don't know who did the best between FV and FGR but if they are 'loans' which I understand them to be, they still need to be paid back sooner or later - maybe even a decision was taken NOT to apply for one, or not to apply for the maximum available perhaps???

As for my MP, I've met more than a few in my time and whilst some/many have been fairly genuine people they are tainted with a political bias and all play their political cards accordingly - all to appeal to their constituents in order to stay in power at their next election.

It's all a game, which I've tried (and failed) to explain to others on here.

I liked your quote the other day about the three 'Fred's' and there is more than an element of truth in what you say too!

Such is life I guess!

Onwards and upwards though.

704Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 16:30

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sluffy wrote:

Have we agreed on what the definition of a TWERP is, if so I must have missed it?

What I am getting at is that maybe I'm in that category already, maybe the definition is that it is 'someone who thinks differently to others'?

If so isn't the prerequisite of even being a forum poster at some point or other necessitate holding a different position than others (sometimes the majority of others) - if so we can all be classed as TWERPS depending on the view point we hold.

Fwiw I tend to be a far more analytical person than an emotional one - just how I am I guess, so I simply don't follow the crowd without having a little 'think' about things first.

I don't know how to describe it but I sort of like ask myself questions immeadiately, like 'is that true', 'why would that have happened', 'what's caused that', 'why would that have been the outcome and not something different', and a million and one other things too - I guess I'm trying to 'understand' the position rather than 'accept' the position as gospel as stated.

That's why I don't really hold any allegiance to anyone, I'm not biased politically, religiously or morally, I know everyone can be wrong sooner or later, including myself - I simply try by not taking everything as gospel right from the start, to limit my chances of being so.

If people want to believe whatever they want, then that's up to them, I simply like to be on a bit more firmer ground to make my decissions that's all.


https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/twerp

705Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 17:03

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin


Thanks, yes I know what 'twerp' means in normal usage but Bob has a habit of using words as an acronym to spell out something else - for instance Those Who Even Rate Politicians, for instance, so as the man who knows his onions once said 'are we all on the same page' as each other?

Very Happy

706Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 17:09

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Sluffy wrote:

Well we've been told that FV furloughed staff so it would make sense that they availed themselves of other government aid as well.

I've not looked into the criteria for awarding the amount of the loans (I guess it related to historical turnover?) so I don't know who did the best between FV and FGR but if they are 'loans' which I understand them to be, they still need to be paid back sooner or later - maybe even a decision was taken NOT to apply for one, or not to apply for the maximum available perhaps???

As for my MP, I've met more than a few in my time and whilst some/many have been fairly genuine people they are tainted with a political bias and all play their political cards accordingly - all to appeal to their constituents in order to stay in power at their next election.

It's all a game, which I've tried (and failed) to explain to others on here.

I liked your quote the other day about the three 'Fred's' and there is more than an element of truth in what you say too!

Such is life I guess!

Onwards and upwards though.
Last MP I met spent an hour and a half with Lady B and me discussing 'blatant' (his word not mine) financial irregularities involving the chairman and the third wife of our local NHS Trust. 

He said he'd make further enquiries. I never heard from him again but four weeks later the chairman was re-appointed for a further four-year term. I'd been on the case for two years by then.

A year later the chairman was quietly removed from office seemingly on the same day that the Trust had to hand over 154 pages of evidence I'd pursued under the Freedom of Information Act.  But it was only tip o' th' iceberg really.



Last edited by Ten Bobsworth on Tue 9 Mar - 7:49; edited 1 time in total

707Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 20:59

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

What do you do to relax, Bob?

708Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Mon 8 Mar - 22:37

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

boltonbonce wrote:What do you do to relax, Bob?
I know most folks turn a blind eye to charlatans and shysters but, each to their own, it doesn't quite suit me and I do like figuring things out for myself.

And btw the ex-chairman got a lovely write up in the Guardian not long after his removal from office. All complete hogwash, of course. He'd been a charlatan for the whole of his working life but that's another story.

709Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Tue 9 Mar - 7:40

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Sorry Boncey, but I forgot to mention that no case was ever taken by anyone in relation to the 'blatant insider dealing' and no money was ever recovered. But there was a nice big pot of ex-NHS cash for his widow to inherit when he died shortly after his removal from office.

Now where were we? Ah yes I remember Coronavirus Loans, have FV managed to get some? Possibly but not nearly as much as the owner of tin pot FGR, I'd wager.

710Wigan in Administration - Page 36 Empty Re: Wigan in Administration Tue 9 Mar - 14:05

Ten Bobsworth


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Pleased you like the 'three Fred's' quote, Sluffy. It wasn't plagiarised but have you had chance to think a bit more about EDT being paid off? 

I have provided a few clues but I'd rather not spell out what I think has happened. I could be wrong and I do like to avoid being wrong.

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