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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Bolton Wanderers Banter » If Jaaskelainen has been our best ever keeper who has been the second best?

If Jaaskelainen has been our best ever keeper who has been the second best?

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T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Not a condition, just the basic fact that BWFC was going into admin without new money and if Vince and Doidge's agent hadn't cottoned on to that they were both numpties.

So you blame FGR, because they sold knowing that Bolton were going into admin and would never be able to fulfill the agreed payments?

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

I don't know obviously but there clearly had been some help from Eddie to Anderson in the past and when we signed Doidge they both must have known what the clubs financial position was at the time.

Eddie had continually bailed the club out and I guess the question would have been would he had not done so again?

Clearly his Trust (EDT) and his family have honoured his legacy of the club by simply not liquidating it to get their money back but rather deferring when they are likely to get it back by keeping the club alive and securing the debt on the clubs new owners instead.

Maybe things had gone sour between the two by then but as I say they both would have known what the financial position of the club was and my view fwiw is that I believe Eddie would have put his hand in his pocket once more if he had to do.

The irony of all this though is that Vince would have been paid directly by the EFL themselves from the payment scheduled to all clubs just a week or so after the original settlement between Bolton and FGR was due and as it happens there wasn't actually a need at that time (maybe a few weeks down the line though there might well of been!) for Eddie to put his money in at all!

All water under the bridge now, Anderson has gone, the club still exists thanks largely to FV wanting it to be and Eddie's legacy of the millions he put into it and his family still not taken it all out yet - even though they could and Doidge, through no fault of his own, turning up trumps for himself up in Scotland.

The stink if any was why did Vince do a U-turn (which was quite clearly not necessary - the money was definitely going to be there just a week later) and how and why did the ST's name suddenly crop up for no apparent reason slap bang in the middle of his U-turn?

Time to move on though really.
Eddie putting his hand in his pocket (again) wouldn't have solved the problem of the debt mountain growing at a rate of £100K per week, Sluffy. How much do you expect ED had left after he'd spent every penny he'd gained from selling Strix and more than half as much again on BWFC?

I think Vince was right to call Doidge back but it was the public slanging match with Vince playing the poor innocent victim whilst Iles and the ST stirred up as much trouble as they could muster that was just plain embarrassingly wrong.

Btw how much do you think the club lost last season? Still losing about £100K per week according to Andy Holt after he'd spent an afternoon chatting to Sharon in February.

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
If FGR had been promised payments they never received, does that not make them the victim here?

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:If FGR had been promised payments they never received, does that not make them the victim here?
Wouldn't it be a good idea if every business that didn't get paid everything it was due 'on the nail' called themselves 'victims'  and went running to the media to tell them how truly awfully they had been treated and how they never had and never would do anything like that no matter what the circumstance? Poor poor Mr Vince. He must have thought that nothing like that could ever happen to someone as saintly as him.

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Your point is wafer-thin if we're honest.

You now seem to accept that FGR got shafted (for want of a better word), but your issue is now them kicking off in the press about it.

Originally you said Anderson had made an agreement with FGR which all parties were clear on and that's 'just a statement of the facts'.

Claiming you know something factual when in reality you have a theory of events are not the same thing, not sure why so many on here need to be told that.

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Sometimes I might take a slightly different tack, Sluffy, but you are 100% right about T.R.O.Y.

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Can only imagine what Sluffy has said to you about me in private.

But on the actual topic, you can't describe your theory here as factual can you? We don't know what was agreed.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Can only imagine what Sluffy has said to you about me in private.

I've said nothing, why would I?

If I've got something to say, I'll say it to someone's face - and in the case of a forum like here, in public in a post.

Whatever view Bob has formed of you is from your posts on here and my comments about them.

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

I've said nothing, why would I?

If I've got something to say, I'll say it to someone's face - and in the case of a forum like here, in public in a post.

Whatever view Bob has formed of you is from your posts on here and my comments about them.
Exactly. Deliberately, persistently, annoyingly, frustratingly obtuse seems to sum him/her up. I'll have to put him/her on ignore.



Last edited by Ten Bobsworth on Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:05 pm; edited 2 times in total

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Honestly guys, I don't want to get involved in the playground stuff.

Fact is Bob, you've made a spurious statement and can't back it up.

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
So we are agreed that the former England and BWFC goalie who made more appearances for the Wanderers than any other player in history and is universally loved and admired by anyone who ever saw him play is the winner?

If so, let's move on please.

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:So we are agreed that the former England and BWFC goalie who made more appearances for the Wanderers than any other player in history and is universally loved and admired by anyone who ever saw him play is the winner?

If so, let's move on please.

No i think Juergen Sommer is our greatest ever goalkeeper and i won't have my mind changed by anyone on here  Very Happy

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:So we are agreed that the former England and BWFC goalie who made more appearances for the Wanderers than any other player in history and is universally loved and admired by anyone who ever saw him play is the winner?

If so, let's move on please.
Agreed but second best? Not Jussi for me. He did have a purple patch, in 2006/07 especially, but too many faults in my book.

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

No i think Juergen Sommer is our greatest ever goalkeeper and i won't have my mind changed by anyone on here  Very Happy
John McGinlay has to be in with a shout after that Reading game when he scored what turned out to be the winner, then Branagan was sent off so Superjohn goes in nets and tips one over the bar and protected the lead until full time.

He was only 5'8" you know.
Presumably he was channelling his inner Hoppy Very Happy

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Eddie putting his hand in his pocket (again) wouldn't have solved the problem of the debt mountain growing at a rate of £100K per week, Sluffy. How much do you expect ED had left after he'd spent every penny he'd gained from selling Strix and more than half as much again on BWFC?

I think Vince was right to call Doidge back but it was the public slanging match with Vince playing the poor innocent victim whilst Iles and the ST stirred up as much trouble as they could muster that was just plain embarrassingly wrong.

Btw how much do you think the club lost last season? Still losing about £100K per week according to Andy Holt after he'd spent an afternoon chatting to Sharon in February.

Well I don't doubt Holt was being truthful and at that rate something like £5m.

I agree with you about Eddie having to draw the line somewhere about putting his hand in his pocket but at which point could he do it (and actually stick to it!)?

What I mean is that he informed the club during his ownership that he was stopping funding it leading us to the taxman taking us to court and the sale but clearly he helping bale the club out continually again afterwards under Holdsworth/Anderson.  

It clearly got to the point that I guess he even considered regaining control of the club/forcing Anderson to sell it, by securing the BM loan on ICI in case of default - with ICI's only asset of worth being ownership of the clubs shares.

I tried to show, perhaps very poorly, in my post above, that after Eddie's death that his family clearly didn't simply get back their money and walk off and in doing so almost inevitably put the club into liquidation, but instead deferred repayment (quite clearly for some time in the future) so it obviously meant something to them more than just the money and my guess is that it was more to do with wanting to continue Eddie's legacy rather than them being resentful over what he must have done with a large chunk of their inheritance.

My thinking being that the club meant so much to Eddie that when push came to shove he would still be its benefactor if and when needed - he basically couldn't say no in other words!

Doidge signed a contract which would have been legally enforceable but I clearly don't know the terms and conditions of that.

Thinking about it a bit I would have thought there was a number of issues here - maybe even more than one contract(?) after all there are three party's involved, BWFC, FGR and Doidge.

If you look at it simply their would have been a contract of employment between BWFC and Doidge, which would have included what and when he would be paid.

There would also be a contract between BWFC and FGR in respect of transferring the registration of Doidge from one to the other and terms and conditions of payment.  I would suggest that one of those being FGR paying his wages whilst he was on loan to us?

If this being the case and Doidge was receiving wages as per the contract terms then I don't see any reason why the contract couldn't be enforced by FGR if Anderson told them he thought Doidge was crap and go whistle for their money, when the completion date of 1st January was reached.

Vince had control of the situation if he wanted the sale (and the money direct from the EFL) but instead acted bizarrely after first agreeing to wait a week for the money!

As I've said above clearly something changed in the two/three or so days between happy to wait and going ballistic in public.

Why he linked what he did to the ST can only be speculated on but clearly there is no smoke without fire.

Another thing that struck me as odd at the time was that, as far as I'm aware, no one from the ST travelled down to the match to show their thanks and solidarity to Vince for his stance and public support of him - although plenty Wanderers supporters clearly did.

I would have thought at least one of them would have done so and had several pictures of them wearing a No Ken Do T-shirt - certainly would have been popular with the masses of our fans who by then wanted Anderson out and popularised the ST as being in touch with fans feelings.

Instead they were conspicuous by their absence - almost as though they were too embarrassed to show their face.

Had they done the shit stirring, poisoned Vince's mind even more about Anderson but certainly did not have think Vince would unexpectedly throw the spotlight on them by proclaiming he was giving the process of the T-shirts sales to them specifically?

Wouldn't it have been more normal just to say he would donate them to a local Bolton charity or some national good cause?

As for Iles he nailed his colours to the mast in that he was anti-Anderson and completely pro the ST.

That's not impartial and certainly not what an influencer (and he clearly is with many) should be doing if his day job is to report things fairly and without bias?

It's all water under the bridge now though, Anderson's gone FV and Vince have made up, the ST is irrelevant and we are stuck with Iles even though he's clearly kept at arms length by FV and I'm pleased that thinks seemed to have worked out well for Doidge who was completely blameless in the events that surrounded him.

Roll on the new season though, I can't wait!

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Charlie Wright!!!!

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Charlie Wright!!!!
Joe Dean!!!!!

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Charlie Wright!!!!
Good goalie, rubbish manager.

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Jani Viander. Never conceded a goal.

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Exactly. Deliberately, persistently, annoyingly, frustratingly obtuse seems to sum him/her up. I'll have to put him/her on ignore.

Can see why you like this guy Sluffy, he's a lot like you.

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:So we are agreed that the former England and BWFC goalie who made more appearances for the Wanderers than any other player in history and is universally loved and admired by anyone who ever saw him play is the winner?

If so, let's move on please.

Sticking with Jaaskelainaen me. But I never saw Hoppy play.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Exactly. Deliberately, persistently, annoyingly, frustratingly obtuse seems to sum him/her up. I'll have to put him/her on ignore.

Can see why you like this guy Sluffy, he's a lot like you.

I've never met the gentleman, in fact I've never met anyone from the forum (not knowingly anyway) but I certainly have great respect for his bearing for and professional knowledge which although in a different specialist field to mine certainly tally's with what my knowledge and expertise tells me as to what has happened with the company and which as the weeks turn in to months and no apparent actions have been taken against Anderson despite everything long being looked into, seems to indicate we were both on the right track and virtually everyone else believing completely differently (many of course still believing that and who will never change their minds about it either).

I quite like you fwiw, there doesn't seem to be any malice in what you say and certainly no abuse, and you can and do give credit to where credit is due, unlike one or two on here.

I don't think Bob and I see eye to eye on everything and he's certainly put me right on more than one occasion which I thank him for - isn't that what learning from others who are better informed all about?  Well I think it is anyway.

It's good that we are open to different views and ideas - that's what makes a forum imo.

What breaks it is having closed minds, being unable to accept you may be wrong, abuse and holding grudges.

If we can move on from that we will be fine but unfortunately there are to many who enjoy that as being the best part of the forum and not the worst.

C'est la vie.

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:in fact I've never met anyone from the forum

You bastard, I can't believe you've forgotten Whitley Bay 2009.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:in fact I've never met anyone from the forum

You bastard, I can't believe you've forgotten Whitley Bay 2009.

The magic spell would be broken if we ever met don't you think?

In my first ever job I worked in an accounts section and my duties were to check and process invoices for payment. Well one of the company's I had a lot of dealings with was from the same town and I used often speak to a particular woman about the various queries I had.

I was still in my teens at the time but had a bit of cheek and a laugh about me so much so it was fun for both of us when I had the need to call her. I guess I had charmed her in a way and she suggested we meet up for a lunchtime drink as it was Christmas time.

Well I had no illusions that she was going to be a model or anything and I wasn't looking to get anything out of the meeting other than a friendly chat and just to put a face to the voice but I guess that just about summed up my naivety at the time.

She turned out to be some not so beautiful middle aged woman who clearly must have though with my cheek and confidence, was far older than I actually was and to make matters worse had brought along a group of her workmates to have a look at who I was behind the voice!

I did the decent thing, bought the drinks, chatted nicely and left as soon as I could without being rude but things were never quite the same after that when I had need to call that company.

I guess the moral is that it is better to travel hopefully than to arrive.

True story.



Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

The magic spell would be broken if we ever met don't you think?

In my first ever job I worked in an accounts section and my duties were to check and process invoices for payment.  Well one of the company's I had a lot of dealings with was from the same town and I used often speak to a particular woman about the various queries I had.

I was still in my teens at the time but had a bit of cheek and a laugh about me so much so it was fun for both of us when I had the need to call her.  I guess I had charmed her in a way and she suggested we meet up for a lunchtime drink as it was Christmas time.

Well I had no illusions that she was going to be a model or anything and I wasn't looking to get anything out of the meeting other than a friendly chat and just to put a face to the voice but I guess that just about summed up my naivety at the time.

She turned out to be some not so beautiful middle aged woman who clearly must have though with my cheek and confidence, was far older than I actually was and to make matters worse had brought along a group of her workmates to have a look at who I was behind the voice!

I did the decent thing, bought the drinks, chatted nicely and left as soon as I could without being rude but things were never quite the same after that when I had need to call that company.

I guess the moral is that it is better to travel hopefully than to arrive.

True story.



The good old days, Sluffy. An old friend of mine, living in Spain close to broke and desparately lonely, decided to seek companionship on t'internet a few months ago. He rang me on Sunday to ask if I could lend him £4,500 to help his internet lover out of a hole. She'd told him she was 34 and was longing to see him and look after him. I was worried about him and rang another mutual friend who told me he had given him a £1,000 about a month ago.
 
He still can't accept he's being scammed. Scammers operate by telling folk what they want to believe and, no matter how implausible the story, they fall for it hook, line and sinker, over and over and over again.

True story.

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
Scammers. I had a call from 'HMRC' telling me I had a fraud case against me, and would I press '1' to speak to the officer in charge of my case. Sounded very official, but obviously I ignored it.
Two hours later I had an almost identical call. Both said that if I didn't answer a warrant would be issued and I'd be arrested. I ignored both. Oddly, the first call originated in London, and the second in Liverpool. That was two days ago, and though I decided not to go on the run, nobody has arrived to arrest me.

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Well I don't doubt Holt was being truthful and at that rate something like £5m.

I agree with you about Eddie having to draw the line somewhere about putting his hand in his pocket but at which point could he do it (and actually stick to it!)?

What I mean is that he informed the club during his ownership that he was stopping funding it leading us to the taxman taking us to court and the sale but clearly he helping bale the club out continually again afterwards under Holdsworth/Anderson.  

It clearly got to the point that I guess he even considered regaining control of the club/forcing Anderson to sell it, by securing the BM loan on ICI in case of default - with ICI's only asset of worth being ownership of the clubs shares.

I tried to show, perhaps very poorly, in my post above, that after Eddie's death that his family clearly didn't simply get back their money and walk off and in doing so almost inevitably put the club into liquidation, but instead deferred repayment (quite clearly for some time in the future) so it obviously meant something to them more than just the money and my guess is that it was more to do with wanting to continue Eddie's legacy rather than them being resentful over what he must have done with a large chunk of their inheritance.

My thinking being that the club meant so much to Eddie that when push came to shove he would still be its benefactor if and when needed - he basically couldn't say no in other words!

Doidge signed a contract which would have been legally enforceable but I clearly don't know the terms and conditions of that.

Thinking about it a bit I would have thought there was a number of issues here - maybe even more than one contract(?) after all there are three party's involved, BWFC, FGR and Doidge.

If you look at it simply their would have been a contract of employment between BWFC and Doidge, which would have included what and when he would be paid.

There would also be a contract between BWFC and FGR in respect of transferring the registration of Doidge from one to the other and terms and conditions of payment.  I would suggest that one of those being FGR paying his wages whilst he was on loan to us?

If this being the case and Doidge was receiving wages as per the contract terms then I don't see any reason why the contract couldn't be enforced by FGR if Anderson told them he thought Doidge was crap and go whistle for their money, when the completion date of 1st January was reached.

Vince had control of the situation if he wanted the sale (and the money direct from the EFL) but instead acted bizarrely after first agreeing to wait a week for the money!

As I've said above clearly something changed in the two/three or so days between happy to wait and going ballistic in public.

Why he linked what he did to the ST can only be speculated on but clearly there is no smoke without fire.

Another thing that struck me as odd at the time was that, as far as I'm aware, no one from the ST travelled down to the match to show their thanks and solidarity to Vince for his stance and public support of him - although plenty Wanderers supporters clearly did.

I would have thought at least one of them would have done so and had several pictures of them wearing a No Ken Do T-shirt - certainly would have been popular with the masses of our fans who by then wanted Anderson out and popularised the ST as being in touch with fans feelings.

Instead they were conspicuous by their absence - almost as though they were too embarrassed to show their face.

Had they done the shit stirring, poisoned Vince's mind even more about Anderson but certainly did not have think Vince would unexpectedly throw the spotlight on them by proclaiming he was giving the process of the T-shirts sales to them specifically?

Wouldn't it have been more normal just to say he would donate them to a local Bolton charity or some national good cause?

As for Iles he nailed his colours to the mast in that he was anti-Anderson and completely pro the ST.

That's not impartial and certainly not what an influencer (and he clearly is with many) should be doing if his day job is to report things fairly and without bias?

It's all water under the bridge now though, Anderson's gone FV and Vince have made up, the ST is irrelevant and we are stuck with Iles even though he's clearly kept at arms length by FV and I'm pleased that thinks seemed to have worked out well for Doidge who was completely blameless in the events that surrounded him.

Roll on the new season though, I can't wait!
Nobody would blame Doidge for wanting to improve his prospects but he must have had an agent to advise him and make up for any financial vulnerability on his part. The day he signed for BWFC was the very same day that BWFC was defaulting on the Blumarble loan already overdue by two and a half years and the month after, with a mountain of unpaid bills, it had been unable to pay wages on time.
 
It was owned by someone with a checkered history who'd spent all of 50P of his own money on acquiring the club and there wasn't a cat in hell's chance of completing the season without new money from somewhere. I don't believe for one moment that Vince didn't understand most, if not all, of that when he let Doidge go.
 
I expect Eddie advised the BWFC board of his intentions to withdraw in 2009 when he paid off the debts and it had much to do with his health prospects and avoiding Sue becoming a widow before her time. Sadly that didn't happen and the circumstances of his death could only have been horribly traumatic for Sue. But the decisions he made during his lifetime did eventually result in the club being acquired by FV and able to borrow money on the security of the assets he had paid for.

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
So given the situation you describe was it financially irresponsible/deliberately deceptive of KA to promise payments he knew we weren't in a position to pay?

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Scammers. I had a call from 'HMRC' telling me I had a fraud case against me, and would I press '1' to speak to the officer in charge of my case. Sounded very official, but obviously I ignored it.
Two hours later I had an almost identical call. Both said that if I didn't answer a warrant would be issued and I'd be arrested. I ignored both. Oddly, the first call originated in London, and the second in Liverpool. That was two days ago, and though I decided not to go on the run, nobody has arrived to arrest me.
You don't suppose that Kenneth might have scammed Vanity Vince into believing that there was a foreign billionaire who intended to buy BWFC? Christian Doidge had to be part of the deal but he couldn't complete on it until 2019 because he was superstitious and had a phobia about the number 18.

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Scammers. I had a call from 'HMRC' telling me I had a fraud case against me, and would I press '1' to speak to the officer in charge of my case. Sounded very official, but obviously I ignored it.
Two hours later I had an almost identical call. Both said that if I didn't answer a warrant would be issued and I'd be arrested. I ignored both. Oddly, the first call originated in London, and the second in Liverpool. That was two days ago, and though I decided not to go on the run, nobody has arrived to arrest me.

Staff shortages at HMRC obviously the explanation. No doubt they will be in touch again.

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