How is the Tory government doing?

The Government is being a little murky. I have been staring into the ball to see if the mist will clear. Scrying may bring more clarity and information than the Government is. I am hoping my Spirit Guide might help me out knowing what the Export Tariffs are going to be.

Carrie Symonds has announced the new Tory Treasurer in her latest reshuffle to take effect in January.

Good to hear a politician apologise sincerely and admit she was in the wrong with no excuses, ifs or buts.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-55419564

As the Brexit negotiations stagger towards a conclusion there are rumours that Bozo has sold out the Brexiteers in order to get a deal - presumably the details will come out over the next few days but the Daily Fail claims they know a bit about what's been agreed - including accepting 25% of the current EU fishing quota in British waters as opposed to the 60% originally demanded and agreed limitations on government support for businesses.

If this is true, we may still be able to trade with the EU without tariffs and we may even retain some of our travel rights - great news.

I have always thought that Cummings would have insisted on a no deal exit, but with him gone and public opinion showing a majority disapproving of Brexit anyway it's clear that the PM will do whatever public opinion dictates. However, I imagine the Brexiteers will label it as a sellout, and of course europhiles will point to all the rights and privileges we have lost so I'm struggling to see how Boris will survive more than a few months, but politics is a strange business so you never know.

Assuming there is a deal, whatever the terms, it will be portrayed as a great triumph for Boris personally. So I expect him to be PM for some time. Whether he leads the Tories into the next election is I think more unlikely.

Cue the return of the smirk! 

Some of the recent headlines and articles in the Sun, Express and Mail have been vile and utter distortions of events, so you can imagine how they'll read now....

Thank goodness there'll still be no raucous cheeering and infantile behaviour in the HoC for the present.....

But a very happy Christmas to all, especially BWFC fans! I have a feeling that 2021 will be more cheery all round, particularly if those who are determined to pick and prolong arguments on here desist!

Still waiting on the details of the deal but at least it seems like the economy won't be sacrificed completely. I was listening to the prick from the Brexit party who coined the phrase "no deal is better than a bad deal" doing a u-turn on the radio so it seems some degree of common sense has filtered through to even them. Huge sigh of relief if we come out of this with at least some of the things we had especially zero tariffs on trade - still it's a shame about the mountains of additional red tape business will be taking on. But it's clear that a shit deal is better than no deal given the mess we've got ourselves into.
Apparently they're still discussing fishing rights - despite the fact that the entire UK fishing industry contributes less to the economy than Harrod's store in London.

@okocha wrote:Cue the return of the smirk! 

Some of the recent headlines and articles in the Sun, Express and Mail have been vile and utter distortions of events, so you can imagine how they'll read now....

The Express made me laugh last week - one day they were belligerently crowing about deploying navy patrol boats against French fishermen - and the next day they were blaming the bad attitude of the French as being responsible for the lorry queues on the M20.

Confirmed officially now

— Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) December 24, 2020

Here is the government's statement: "Everything that the British public was promised during the 2016 referendum and in the general election last year is delivered by this deal."

"We have taken back control of our money, borders, laws, trade and our fishing waters

"The deal is fantastic news for families and businesses in every part of the UK.

"We have signed the first free trade agreement based on zero tariffs and zero quotas that has ever been achieved with the EU.

"The deal is the biggest bilateral trade deal signed by either side, covering trade worth £668bn in 2019.

"The deal also guarantees that we are no longer in the lunar pull of the EU, we are not bound by EU rules, there is no role for the European Court of Justice and all of our key red lines about returning sovereignty have been achieved.

"It means that we will have full political and economic independence on 1st January 2021."

"A points-based immigration system will put us in full control of who enters the UK and free movement will end.

"We have delivered this great deal for the entire United Kingdom in record time, and under extremely challenging conditions, which protects the integrity of our internal market and Northern Ireland’s place within it.

"We have got Brexit done and we can now take full advantage of the fantastic opportunities available to us as an independent trading nation, striking trade deals with other partners around the world."


Almost as though I actually knew what I was talking about...

@Sluffy wrote:Haven't you got it yet, it's all just a big game.

Both sides KNOW there has to be a deal because it is the BEST for both sides.

So it's always been a dance as to who can sell the final 'compromise' outcome to their respective country's electorate - neither side wants to appear to have had their pants pulled down over the outcome.

It was always going to be ending with a stage where the big chiefs of each side had to step in and save the day.

In the end nobody will get what they ideally wanted but both sides will sell it as them achieving a great deal for their respective sides.

I honestly doubt most of us will even notice the difference to our daily lives and even if we did, the change would be blamed because of 'Covid'

If idiots like you hadn't voted for Brexit in the first place then non of this would have even happened.

https://boltonnuts.forumotion.co.uk/t21530p300-how-is-the-tory-government-doing#418228

And here is the EU graphic outlining the deal showing how worse off we are.
Weird that the government didn't mention the concessions they made

Why don't we look at what we have gained rather than keep harping on about what we have lost? (just a thought) 
We paid for what we had before, and we will now pay again, but for a different product. Nothing is free I'm afraid.
I forgot that I had only dropped in to wish you all a Merry Christmas, so will scoot now. 
Best wishes to you all.

@gloswhite wrote:Why don't we look at what we have gained rather than keep harping on about what we have lost? (just a thought) 
We paid for what we had before, and we will now pay again, but for a different product. Nothing is free I'm afraid.
I forgot that I had only dropped in to wish you all a Merry Christmas, so will scoot now. 
Best wishes to you all.

Merry Xmas Glos!

BTW I'm not aware of anything that we've "gained" as we had all that and a lot more before, but I must say I'm relieved that we still have access to the Single Market even though it's created an absolute mountain of red tape for UK PLC that I thought we'd managed to get rid of 40 years ago, but...
The upside is that it could have been a helluva lot worse.

Anyhoo, hope you and yours are all well and best wishes for the festive period.

Its a while since I read Das Kapital.

@gloswhite wrote:Why don't we look at what we have gained rather than keep harping on about what we have lost? (just a thought) 
We paid for what we had before, and we will now pay again, but for a different product. Nothing is free I'm afraid.
I forgot that I had only dropped in to wish you all a Merry Christmas, so will scoot now. 
Best wishes to you all.

Hi glos good to see you back!

Belated seasonal greetings!

Feel free to post a list of the things we gain but just don't start it with £350m for the NHS.

On first reading the deal seems a bit thin and full of anomalies.
For example: we now have the right to cut workers rights, conditions and standards in order to be more competitive - and the right to question those decisions in the ECJ has been removed.
However the deal also says that if we do that, the EU has the right to impose tariffs and sanctions or even pull out of the whole agreement. So what's different and how does it help?

Let Winston Smith read through it.

@sunlight wrote:Let Winston Smith read through it.

He'd probably just repeat his famous line....
"In this game that we’re playing, we can’t win. Some kinds of failure are better than other kinds, that’s all."

@wanderlust wrote:
He'd probably just repeat his famous line....
"In this game that we’re playing, we can’t win. Some kinds of failure are better than other kinds, that’s all."

Forsooth!

If I have to be serious for a moment, as I sometimes cant be very serious and post for comedy effect. I always said that a NO DEAL Brexit was very bad for Britain and was against it. However, I havent read through the deal yet as I have been reading more important books, but as long as Britain has got a business deal with the EU that is free of tarrifs and on an even level with the other 27 countries ( 26?) then I find that agreeable. We are better off out of the EU but need the EU equally as much. The highest Judiciary will be our Supreme Court in Westminster which is agreeable. Britain has the mindset of an Island. For me, fishing isnt a particularly lucrative business, why the outrage over it, other than base Gammonry over territory. As I say I havent read through the deal yet, so this is isnt even Academic. I am not Partisan in any way with any Party. I am left-wing, however that doesnt make me object to everything that isnt from a left-wing manifesto, as that would be absurd. On the other hand, if they hadnt got a deal, that would have been very very bad.
If we had got a no deal it would have been disastrous.

@sunlight wrote:If I have to be serious for a moment, as I sometimes cant be very serious and post for comedy effect. I always said that a NO DEAL Brexit was very bad for Britain and was against it. However, I havent read through the deal yet as I have been reading more important books, but as long as Britain has got a business deal with the EU that is free of tarrifs and on an even level with the other 27 countries ( 26?) then I find that agreeable. We are better off out of the EU but need the EU equally as much. The highest Judiciary will be our Supreme Court in Westminster which is agreeable. Britain has the mindset of an Island. For me, fishing isnt a particularly lucrative business, why the outrage over it, other than base Gammonry over territory. As I say I havent read through the deal yet, so this is isnt even Academic. I am not Partisan in any way with any Party. I am left-wing, however that doesnt make me object to everything that isnt from a left-wing manifesto, as that would be absurd. On the other hand, if they hadnt got a deal, that would have been very very bad.
If we had got a no deal it would have been disastrous.

...and a lot of people will agree with you. My concerns are that there appear to be a load of clauses which suggest any agreement can be withdrawn at the drop of a hat. And there are questions about major sectors like financial services which was 7% of our GDP. We'll see.

At last, an article that picks out the salient points in the deal.

...both good and bad.

OK I know it's from a Conservative publication so it doesn't examine the potential impact on working people and the poor, but it does cover the headline issues.

The EU has the right to switch off the UK's gas and electricity supplies small print reveals.
Approx 8% of our power comes from the EU apparently.

Another aspect of the deal that has come to light in e.g. this article is that not only do British exporters have do a load more paperwork to sell into the EU, but their customers in the EU will have to do a load of paperwork to receive it - so, as the guy in this article points out, why would they buy from the UK when they can buy from an EU supplier without having to do any paperwork?

Something else has emerged on the additional paperwork front. Apparently the gov have put the onus of VAT collection on businesses that export to the UK.
This Dutch bike parts exporter seems to be the first to refuse to trade with the UK as a result.

An interesting observation at the weekend from columnist Marina Hyde, pointing out something that was clearly illustrated during Johnson's cringeworthy performance on Marr this morning:-

Time and again, Boris Johnson has so deeply regretted even the prospect of having to do difficult things that he hasn’t done them , meaning he has had to do even more regrettable things later. He seems most comfortable casting himself as forever the passive victim of events as opposed to someone who should be out in front of them, shaping them as decisively as possible.

[size=17]Johnson's first thought seems always to be for his own emotions. “I hate having to take these decisions …”, “I deeply regret having to do this …”, “I do this with a heavy heart …” 

Once you’ve noticed the tic you can’t stop hearing it. If only he’d take back control of himself!

I can no longer remember any Boris Johnson podium address that wasn’t riven with subconscious invitations to consider the real victim in all this: him. 

We are forever being subjected to self-dramatising speeches about the latest virus measures he hates . I couldn’t care less how it all makes you feel, Boris. You’re the prime minister. The people listening are the ones you’re supposed to lead, not your psychotherapist.
[/size]

@okocha wrote:An interesting observation at the weekend from columnist Marina Hyde, pointing out something that was clearly illustrated during Johnson's cringeworthy performance on Marr this morning:-

Time and again, Boris Johnson has so deeply regretted even the prospect of having to do difficult things that he hasn’t done them , meaning he has had to do even more regrettable things later. He seems most comfortable casting himself as forever the passive victim of events as opposed to someone who should be out in front of them, shaping them as decisively as possible.

[size=17]Johnson's first thought seems always to be for his own emotions. “I hate having to take these decisions …”, “I deeply regret having to do this …”, “I do this with a heavy heart …” 

Once you’ve noticed the tic you can’t stop hearing it. If only he’d take back control of himself!

I can no longer remember any Boris Johnson podium address that wasn’t riven with subconscious invitations to consider the real victim in all this: him. 

We are forever being subjected to self-dramatising speeches about the latest virus measures he hates . I couldn’t care less how it all makes you feel, Boris. You’re the prime minister. The people listening are the ones you’re supposed to lead, not your psychotherapist.
[/size]

This Marina Hyde person wouldn't be a Guardian journalist by any chance, would she? The unbiasedfulness is terrific but who exactly does Okocha think he's preaching to?

Probably an obvious comment and maybe repeating someone else but I wasn't aware that there is a government in this country atm. A collection of lying, self serving incompetent tosspots do not constitute a government in any way and that is what currently inhabits the Palace of Westminster in my opinion.

Problem is the government are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Put restrictions in place swiftly they’re going over the top or the alternative is they’re too slow to act.

@BoltonTillIDie wrote:Problem is the government are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.  Put restrictions in place swiftly they’re going over the top or the alternative is they’re too slow to act.

BTID I'm not just talking about covid although I think they screwed that up from the beginning. The main problem here is Boris Johnson is the same sort of populist plank that Don Trump is. They both make these big promises and say how it's all going to be wonderful without having a clue about how they're going to achieve any of it. The so-called 'Oven Ready' Brexit deal immediately springs to mind here. Boris has been caught out in lie after lie, not mistakes, not misreading the reality, just outright lying for his own ends and to keep the far right happy.

Frankly he's got nothing of substance in his repertoire only soundbites that mean nothing and accomplish less. I agree Co-vid would have caught any Government on the hop but his idiocy was in full view just this week. On Sunday schools were 'completely safe' and every parent should send their children back on Monday. As late as 8 am on January 4th he was still insisting this was the case in absolute disregard to what the experts were telling him and us. By Monday night we were suddenly in another national lockdown and schools were closed as they were 'high risk' places. Worse yet Boris refused to accept any responsibility at all for totally screwing up and tried to blame the scientists for his own failures.

He's made it clear international law means nothing to him and that he's more than willing to violate treaties he himself signed while trying to blame 'Remainers' for the fact his 'deal' was actually worse than the one Theresa May negotiated and that he personally knew it would be from the start. For a man who claims to be a staunch unionist he's done more to destroy the UK in one year than the SNP,Sinn Fein and Plaid Cwmru could have accomplished in a generation.

I used to be a dyed in the wool moderate Conservative but that party no longer exists. In much the same way the Tea Party and MAGA have destroyed the Republicans from within so the 'Brexiteers' and the likes of UKIP have destroyed the Tory party. The far right has managed to totally subvert what it means to be a conservative and now sell nothing but ignorance, fear and hate. We will all pay the price for that, most especially our children and grandchildren unless our generation wakes up and takes the party back to where it belongs, the centre-right.

Of course that's only my opinion but I honestly believe that what we saw in Washington just two days ago wasn't the end or even close to it. As the late, great Winston Churchill said 'this is the end of the beginning'. What happens next and how our country moves forward in the post Brexit and post Covid era will depend entirely on us the voters and our ability to see past the smoke, mirrors and outright lies that have been propogated without true challenge for far too long already.