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Orient 4-0 Bolton

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1Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Orient 4-0 Bolton Thu Oct 29 2020, 00:01

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
So what do we think? They're 3 points above us in a cluster of teams on 12. Do we close in on the chasing pack or fall back into the quicksand?
This is a game for Evatt's men to show us what they've been working towards.
Orient are no mugs. They've got a couple of nippy players and 38 year old Jobi McNuff who knows his way around a football pitch running their midfield.
To me it seems a big game for our season - bring on the quality.

Orient 0 - 2 BWFC

2Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Thu Oct 29 2020, 19:07

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Its the hope that kills, the first signs of form are there to see, 1 loss in 6,a great performance at Cambridge robbed of the win, and our first win at home, players returning from injury all positives.
BUT despite the penalty save Young Billy the Kid is still an accident waiting to happen. One mistake and we are back to square one and needing two goals to win.

My vote goes to another positive win and further progress.

3Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Thu Oct 29 2020, 20:28

BoltonTillIDie

BoltonTillIDie
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
If no major mistakes are made then we’ll win.  Hopefully Crellin has been told he needs to command his area more and stop opting for punching instead of going for the catch.

Sarcevic is improving and can see him only getting better.  Players returning from injury is another positive too.  Another win here and can see the teams above us looking over their shoulder.

4Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Thu Oct 29 2020, 21:46

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

5Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sat Oct 31 2020, 11:50

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Preview: Leyton Orient vs. Bolton Wanderers


Bolton Wanderers travel to the capital this Saturday afternoon when they take on Leyton Orient at the Breyer Group Stadium (kick off 3pm).

Ian Evatt’s men will be looking to build on their recent form having picked up an impressive draw against then league leaders Cambridge United last Saturday and Tuesday’s midweek victory over Bradford City.

Pre-Match Quotes:

Ian Evatt: “It’s another difficult match and another opportunity for us to go out and perform and give ourselves an opportunity of winning three points again and that has to come from our own performance and our own consistency.

"I must say I think on Tuesday, the first half was excellent and the way we battled. The GPS data, the running data was excellent, so they’re getting that side of the game better and they’re improving.

"Football’s a simple game and sometimes it’s how hard you work and how much you want to win will define what you get out of games and I think the last couple of games especially the effort and commitment we’ve put in has warranted taking maximum points."

Ross Embleton: ‘It is a huge club and it has really suffered. We have been looking at their video footage this week and every time you look at the screen you expect to see Jay-Jay Okocha, Kevin Nolan or someone that’s had a top, top career.

“Some top players in the world have played at that club in the not-too-distant past.

“It’s very important to remember what a massive club it is even though it has gone through setbacks.

“They have signed some really good players for our level, maybe not got off to the start they wanted, but they are starting to find themselves now.”


How to watch:

Wanderers supporters can watch the this game by purchasing an iFollow BWFC video match pass for just £10, meaning despite not being able to make the trip to London, you don’t have to miss a kick.

An iFollow BWFC video match pass will ensure supporters do not miss a minute of the action, with the entire match streamed through any compatible laptop, computer, tablet or mobile device in the United Kingdom.


Team News:

There are no fresh injury concerns for Wanderers after Tuesday night’s win against the Bantams.

Ian Evatt confirmed that Gethin Jones, Lloyd Isgrove and Shaun Miller are all making good progress as they return to fitness, while Eoin Doyle is also recovering well after being sidelined with a hamstring problem.

Former Wanderers striker Connor Wilkinson will be the one to watch as the frontman has already matched his goals tally for last season. He’s netted six goals in his first nine games in all competitions for Orient this season.


Bookies Odds:

Leyton Orient win: 11/8

Draw: 23/10

Bolton Wanderers win: 9/5

Correct as of 30/10/2020 (11am) on skybet.com


Form:

Wanderers go into the game high in confidence following a run of just one defeat in their last six games.

A midweek victory against Bradford City followed an impressive 1-1 draw at Cambridge United last weekend.

Orient are currently in 13th spot in Sky Bet League Two and are three points ahead of Bolton.

They have yet to win at home this season and have drawn two and lost two on their own patch.


Last time out:

Wanderers’ last league fixture against Orient came in 1993 when Andy Walker netted the only goal of the game at Burnden Park for Bruce Rioch’s men.

Earlier in that campaign, Wanderers suffered a 1-0 reverse at Brisbane Road.


Match Officials:

Referee: Brett Huxtable

Assistant Referees: Louis Marks and Scott Williams

Fourth Official: Stephen Brown

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

6Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sat Oct 31 2020, 14:13

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

7Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sat Oct 31 2020, 14:24

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Radio Nuts is live and kicking in the Portal!

8Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sat Oct 31 2020, 17:09

bryan458

bryan458
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Poorest BWFC team EVER !!!!!

9Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sat Oct 31 2020, 17:09

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Watch and weep, The once mighty whites reduced to that.

We may as well start with 9 men, we have no goalkeeper on the pitch or on the bensch, Crellin is a kid learning his trade and should be nowhere near a first team slot. Yes he saved another penalty but he cant punch, his positioning is non existant, He can't line up a wall and he can't get in the right place to save the free kick. That's 3 now this season, he comes out when he should stay put, he needs to be dropped, same for Baptiste.

For me Brockbank is a utilty player at best but to play him out wide? scratches head. Gordon offers little and even the stand out performers today failed to turn up, time for a can or two.

10Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sat Oct 31 2020, 17:15

MartinBWFC

MartinBWFC
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Thought Tutte was the only player to come out of the first half with any credit, Santos is a monster, and dare I say it, too good for us, Darcy did a job second half, other than that we were shite, Baptiste and Crellin should be gone for good.

11Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sat Oct 31 2020, 17:26

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Very poor from the first minute when we gave away a penalty. We should have woken up when Crellin saved it but we got worse!

As said Baptiste is hopeless and Crellin even though he saved a penalty, was at fault for the second goal as he left a massive space which he could never cover. He also doesn't have the physique to handle balls in to the box when seasoned league 2 players are coming at him.

Delfouneso went off injured so we now have only one striker left who doesn't looks like he will score either so we are in real trouble now.

One step forward followed by 3 steps backwards.

12Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sat Oct 31 2020, 17:33

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
The own goal Crellin scored the other week was nearly replicated with the ball scrambled off the line, the kid can't handle high crosses. The defence can't have any confidence with him behind them, add no fit strikers and we start to worry.

13Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sat Oct 31 2020, 17:59

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
You have to question the judgement of Evans regarding the goalkeeping situation.

It's an absolute joke Crellin is still our number one, but not having a sub goalie on the bench is just bollocks.

I have absolutely no doubt Crellin will start on Tuesday, the guy must have the safest position in the whole league.

I'd rather bring young Alexander into the team - he's only played once but kept a clean sheet so what have we got to lose?

Evans out.

14Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sat Oct 31 2020, 18:17

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:You have to question the judgement of Evans regarding the goalkeeping situation.

It's an absolute joke Crellin is still our number one, but not having a sub goalie on the bench is just bollocks.

I have absolutely no doubt Crellin will start on Tuesday, the guy must have the safest position in the whole league.

I'd rather bring young Alexander into the team - he's only played once but kept a clean sheet so what have we got to lose?

Evans out.
Agree with your first statement, it was bloody obvious we needed an experienced keeper.

Alexander is not the solution, he may have one blinder but his inexperience would put him exactly were Crellin is now, Gilks till January or more of the same.

15Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sat Oct 31 2020, 18:53

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Alexander is not the solution, he may have one blinder but his inexperience would put him exactly were Crellin is now, Gilks till January or more of the same.

I take your point about Gilks, but just because Alexander is inexperienced doesn't mean he's going to punch the ball into his own net or cause chaos in the back 4/5.

But what an absolute kick in the teeth for the young lad - Evans would rather go with no keeper on the bench.

I don't for one minute think Evans will get the boot, but so far his signings have been desperately poor. If fans were in the ground it would be just as toxic as under Parky.

16Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sat Oct 31 2020, 19:30

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

I take your point about Gilks, but just because Alexander is inexperienced doesn't mean he's going to punch the ball into his own net or cause chaos in the back 4/5.

But what an absolute kick in the teeth for the young lad - Evans would rather go with no keeper on the bench.

I don't for one minute think Evans will get the boot, but so far his signings have been desperately poor. If fans were in the ground it would be just as toxic as under Parky.
Again agree with most of what you are saying. But ask anyone who knows football and they will say GK mature later and reach there best later.

 Alexander is a baby in GK terms, he may not make the same mistakes as Crellin but in time he will make mistakes that's how you learn, Let him learn at somebody elses expense just like Fleetwood are doing with us. Not sure if you can sign a keeper who is out of contract before January? but if so i would be on the phone tonight.

17Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sat Oct 31 2020, 20:59

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

I take your point about Gilks, but just because Alexander is inexperienced doesn't mean he's going to punch the ball into his own net or cause chaos in the back 4/5.

But what an absolute kick in the teeth for the young lad - Evans would rather go with no keeper on the bench.

I don't for one minute think Evans will get the boot, but so far his signings have been desperately poor. If fans were in the ground it would be just as toxic as under Parky.
Again agree with most of what you are saying. But ask anyone who knows football and they will say GK mature later and reach there best later.

 Alexander is a baby in GK terms, he may not make the same mistakes as Crellin but in time he will make mistakes that's how you learn, Let him learn at somebody elses expense just like Fleetwood are doing with us. Not sure if you can sign a keeper who is out of contract before January? but if so i would be on the phone tonight.

You can sign free agents at anytime BUT there's two things WE have to take into consideration, first have we a fully named squad of players already and if so we can't sign anymore until the January window (wasn't that the reason why Zuma was never re-signed after his recent trial with us - and since then we got the lad in from Luton on load at wing back)) and secondly are we up to the £1.5m wage cap already - if so, even if we have a spare squad place we still couldn't sign anyone else.

I guess even if we do have a squad place, have money left under the wage cap and even find a keeper who is a free agent - does Sharon want to pay yet another salary (can we even send Crellin back haven't we contracted him on loan for the season?)

The only obvious solution is to play Gilks in goal.

This 'Moneyball' thing is certainly not working is it!

What I would do fwiw, is throw out all this Barcelona stuff - clearly we haven't got the players who can do it well (if at all!). We have quality players at this level as in Doyle and Sarcevic so we simply revert back to 4-4-2 style in which they excel at, the defence know what they are doing and I reckon even with the start we've had we could still make automatic promotion.

We've clearly signed a number of players who can't play Evatt's system as it takes too long to get the ball up to the strikers and the defenders are all over the place not knowing who is picking up which opposition players.

The keeper has no defence to rely on and has clearly lost confidence - even Evatt's lost confidence in him as per his outburst the other day.

I don't blame the kid he's not asked to be put in such a position but clearly he can't cope and it looks as though the opposition are picking up on that by shooting at goal every chance they get - as the clearly think he's a weak link.

I've no idea what the set up is with Phoenix and Evatt is but again it isn't working.

What is Phoenix job exactly?

Is it really a full-time 39 hours a week, 52 weeks a year job because he must have some responsibility with shambles we have on the pitch now but all the blame seems to be heading Evatt's way and IF Evatt had little or no say in the signings and only 'coaches' them it is a little bit unfair on Evatt to shoulder all the blame.

Back to 4-4-2 with Gilks in the net and let the players play the game they know how to.

Simple.

18Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sat Oct 31 2020, 21:58

MartinBWFC

MartinBWFC
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
There are numerous experienced goalkeepers without a club, yet Evatt is determined to keep Crellin in the team, he has cost us so many points already this season, and we've only played 10 games, stick with him for the other 36 and we could be relegated.

19Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sat Oct 31 2020, 23:56

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:There are numerous experienced goalkeepers without a club, yet Evatt is determined to keep Crellin in the team, he has cost us so many points already this season, and we've only played 10 games, stick with him for the other 36 and we could be relegated.
But it surely won't come to that. I want Crellin to succeed but he's had such a nightmare so far - some brilliant bits but still very much a nightmare especially high crosses which every team will do against him for the rest of the season assuming they've done their research. I would like to forgive him if the rest of his game was OK but his distribution is pants - as demonstrated by the Orient keeper who could put it on a sixpence as opposed to straight into the stands.
And whilst certain players have had good games, not all the players have played well in every game or at the right time.
That said - and wait for it folks - I agree with Sluffy on this inasmuch that a change of system in order to protect ourselves better at the expense of the Evatt dream of outpassing everything before us may be prudent at this stage.
Egos may play a big role in our immediate future but if it doesn't go well, surely things will change given the obvious options?

It's about time Reiss and Taft showed their class and they might in a different system - would love to see big Reiss superfit and dominating midfields (but he clearly isn't Viera) and a solid back 4. Too many left sided players perhaps?
We bought giants but haven't played them together because Moneyball focuses on the individual and takes no account of balance in the team?

Please advise.

20Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sun Nov 01 2020, 10:46

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Bad result yesterday, and it's obvious both Crellin and Baptiste need to be changed or shaken up as they're clear weaknesses. 

Firstly, I was out yesterday so haven't watched the game so this is a more of a question for those who did - but from what I've read and seen the scoreline appears a bit flattering to Orient? Three of their four goals were from outside the area and you could make the argument that Crellin should do better with both free kicks?

From Whoscored we had plenty of possession in their third, had more shots and put in more crosses but couldn't get anything on target to actually work the keeper - does it show our lack of proper cutting edge without Delfouneso and particularly Doyle? Or were Orient more dominant than the stats suggest?

Sluffy, you mention 442 as being a solution because Sarc and Doyle both excel in it, is that what Plymouth and Swindon played last year?

Personally wouldn't trust our centre backs in a 2, and I think a 2 of Tutte/Crawford or Sarc would get overrun in midfield. 

I'd stick with the system, there have been positive signs in recent weeks. However, I would like to see Baptiste out next game with Brockbank dropped into the back 3 and Mascoll at LWB.

21Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sun Nov 01 2020, 11:38

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
First of all if we stick with this keeper we can't progress, i have watched every game (Excluding Bradford) Consistantly he flaps at high balls, beaten easily from distance and three times beaten (twice yesterday) because he can't organise a wall or position himself properly.

We have conceded 3 at Barrow after comic cut start 2 down in 4 minutes, and yesterday concede 4 after yet another comic start. These two teams are not going to figure any where near top six, so for me i would be happy to see a resetting on Tuesday, with a change of keeper and any system that says protect the keeper even if it compromises going forward, if you concede Nil you don't lose. if you pinch a goal you win, and that's a start.

The other end is a problem with injuries and no cover up top but one calamity at a time.

22Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sun Nov 01 2020, 12:33

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Sluffy, you mention 442 as being a solution because Sarc and Doyle both excel in it, is that what Plymouth and Swindon played last year?

Personally wouldn't trust our centre backs in a 2, and I think a 2 of Tutte/Crawford or Sarc would get overrun in midfield. 

I'd stick with the system, there have been positive signs in recent weeks. However, I would like to see Baptiste out next game with Brockbank dropped into the back 3 and Mascoll at LWB.

I would not know as I didn't follow them or League 2 but they certainly weren't playing slow patient possession football trying to walk the ball in the net that's for certain.

I suspect at this tier of football most teams keep it simple and build around what strengths they had so I wouldn't think either teams were root one and we've brought in Doyle 'winger' so obviously his team were not playing with wing backs (which suggests a back four to me). Sarcevic seemed to be the heartbeat of his team so I guess he was given a freer role to play and if so would suggest a style of more through the middle type play than attacking down both wings which again suggests to me a traditional back four behind him.

That's what I'd do with players who are obviously the best in their roles at this level as proved by their performances last season.

If we've paid top money to sign the best then why not play to THEIR strengths rather than play them in a system that (up to now at least) isn't suiting them?

What do I know though, just my opinion.

Just seems common sense to me.

23Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sun Nov 01 2020, 13:04

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Baptiste can be replaced easily enough as we have plenty of CB's but GK is a massive problem. Evatt put all his eggs in one basket with Crellin as back up is an 18 year old and a 38 year old who is also the GK coach.
Personally i'd take Crellin out of the firing line and play Gilks. If we leave him in it's going to ruin his confidence if things keep going the way they are and a short spell out would do him good i think.

24Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sun Nov 01 2020, 17:24

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Baptiste can be replaced easily enough as we have plenty of CB's but GK is a massive problem. Evatt put all his eggs in one basket with Crellin as back up is an 18 year old and a 38 year old who is also the GK coach.
Personally i'd take Crellin out of the firing line and play Gilks. If we leave him in it's going to ruin his confidence if things keep going the way they are and a short spell out would do him good i think.
A short spell really ? period

25Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sun Nov 01 2020, 17:40

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
A short spell really ? period
Couldn't really blame him for the pen, but he has to look at himself for the free kicks. All these decision making problems can be ironed out with experience, but the fact is, in our position, we can't afford a keeper who's learning on the job.

26Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sun Nov 01 2020, 18:05

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

I would not know as I didn't follow them or League 2 but they certainly weren't playing slow patient possession football trying to walk the ball in the net that's for certain.

I suspect at this tier of football most teams keep it simple and build around what strengths they had so I wouldn't think either teams were rout one and we've brought in Doyle 'winger' so obviously his team were not playing with wing backs (which suggests a back four to me).  Sarcevic seemed to be the heartbeat of his team so I guess he was given a freer role to play and if so would suggest a style of more through the middle type play than attacking down both wings which again suggests to me a traditional back four behind him.

That's what I'd do with players who are obviously the best in their roles at this level as proved by their performances last season.

If we've paid top money to sign the best then why not play to THEIR strengths rather than play them in a system that (up to now at least) isn't suiting them?

What do I know though, just my opinion.

Just seems common sense to me.


Fair enough. Personally I like the system for the reasons mentioned in my earlier post, suspect Evatt will stick with it.

27Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sun Nov 01 2020, 19:10

sunlight

sunlight
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
As per above posts. A team has to have a good goalkeeper. He is the most important man in the team. Without a good goalie you will not do well. The defence will have no confience.
Bolton teams that have done well have all had good goalies. My fave was Jim Mcdonagh, a very brave and competent goalkeeper that helped get us promoted to the top division.
Sort the Goaly or forget it.

28Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Sun Nov 01 2020, 23:20

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Marc Iles "Big Match Verdict" was thought-provoking this week. He hypothesised about "why we are where we are" in some detail, but sadly that is little consolation.

29Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Mon Nov 02 2020, 11:43

terenceanne

terenceanne
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
I was traveling so didn't see or hear it.  Sounds like the same as usual though.....laughable goal keeper situation with brockbank out of position and Baps as per normal.
Looks like Ian is going to be pig headed about this so the only solution is as with all recent Bolton Managers......Ian Out ! Smile

30Orient 4-0 Bolton Empty Re: Orient 4-0 Bolton Mon Nov 02 2020, 13:46

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I was traveling so didn't see or hear it.  Sounds like the same as usual though.....laughable goal keeper situation with brockbank out of position and Baps as per normal.
Looks like Ian is going to be pig headed about this so the only solution is as with all recent Bolton Managers......Ian Out ! Smile
Evatt has no choice but to stick it out with these players and try to make it work - for now. I can't see any way we'll be promoted and relegation also seems unlikely so likeliest outcome is a slow burner if he's given the time - as he was at Barrow.
My understanding is that the contracts handed out ensure he won't have difficulty getting rid so maybe after a couple of transfer windows it'll come good?
Our problem is expectation management after the big hoo-hah pre-season when we were unexpectedly made favourites to go up - despite having a fair chunk of signings with little experience at this level. Moneyball is great on an individual basis but it doesn't take account of how they fit into a team so squad adjustments will have to be made if we are to progress.

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