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Nepotism/Cronyism Watch

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271Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:07 am

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Hancock was wheeled out to defend his teams ‘unlawful’ actions over the weekend. He batted away the questions pretty easily to be fair, couple of issues though.

1. His main defence seemed to be it was a global pandemic so if paperwork was late that’s not really their priority.

Agreed, so why not say that at the start and save the tax payer footing the bill for a long winded legal process? There might be a good reason for this I’m missing.

2. He said he was proud of his teams efforts ensuring PPE never ran out.

Did I imagine hospital staff having to wear bin bags earlier in the pandemic?


Starmer opted not to push for his resignation anyway, I actually agree with this. This government are demonstrably incompetent and in my view crooked. But is there any appetite to change Health Sec now? And who does he get replaced by?

Most reports suggest Hancock opposed Sunak/Williamson/Johnson’s push for slow lockdowns and quick return. While the gov appear to have finally learned their lesson and are removing measures more slowly now, Hancock is clearly not to blame for our performance in this crisis.

272Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:31 am

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Hot on the heels of Hancock's local pub landlord finally admitting that he and the minister did in fact exchange mails and calls prior to him being awarded a huge contract to manufacture vials for vaccines, the British Medical Journal have now waded into the debate about the £billions being given to Tory supporters/Serco for the track and trace debacle - funding that the government has announced it is going to continue with.
Some of the figures being quoted in this BMJ article are mind-boggling.

For instance, the amount being handed over to the consultants for track and trace equates to giving every person who works in the NHS in England - not just the nurses - a 5% wage increase for the next 28 years.

Corrupt and immoral.

273Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:35 am

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:Hot on the heels of Hancock's local pub landlord finally admitting that he and the minister did in fact exchange mails and calls prior to him being awarded a huge contract to manufacture vials for vaccines, the British Medical Journal have now waded into the debate about the £billions being given to Tory supporters/Serco for the track and trace debacle - funding that the government has announced it is going to continue with.
Some of the figures being quoted in this BMJ article are mind-boggling.

For instance, the amount being handed over to the consultants for track and trace equates to giving every person who works in the NHS in England - not just the nurses - a 5% wage increase for the next 28 years.

Corrupt and immoral.

Ah, I see someone has been reading social media again!!!

I'm still awaiting any proof of illegality from the 'pub landlord' who DIDN'T win a government contract - but don't let the facts stand in the way of a good story.

(he was/is a sub-contractor to a compamany that did fwiw)

As for the good doctors, the article you link to is an 'opinion' piece, written by a group of clearly left-wing minded people in the health service, there final paragraph clearly gives an insight to their beliefs -

"The UK government is slavishly following the neoliberal capitalist mantra that the market-place and private sector are the answer to any problems the UK faces. Our embarrassingly ineffective national Test and Trace service is surely a classic example of market failure. In the USA Trump was voted out partly for following equally ineffective covid-19 strategies. The UK government is set to carry on for four more years. So the official opposition and the public need to push the government to another of its belated u-turns. Professional organisations, trades unions, local authorities, NGOs and other organisations must speak truth to power. The government must reverse the privatisation of Test and Trace and hand it over to NHS and local authority control".

The thing I seem to be finding every day with my left wing minded friends, including those of you on here, is that you are all for fairness, equality, social justice and all other moral issues but when something occurs you don't like all that goes straight out the window and immeadiately everybody is 'guilty' of whatever it is you don't like without any proof being shown.

Whatever happened to the credo of innocent until proven guilty???

I would have thought that would have been the main tenet of social justice and the foundation of all liberal philosophy and beliefs?

Clearly not these days apparently.

More like the petulant behaviour of spoilt children who aren't getting their own way.

I've no problem whatsoever with rooting out corruption and deceipt, in fact that was basically what my professional career has been about - or rather ensuring no corruption or deceipt takes place in the first instant - so I'm more than happy to include myself as a left wing idealist as well BUT until facts and hard evidence of corruption and illegal activity are produced then 'they' who ever it is you are raging against are 'innocent' and should be treated as 'innocent' too.

Once proof IS FOUND then take them to court and get them locked away for a long time but until then you walk a very dangerous path of judging people guilty until 'they' prove themselves innocent.

Just think if the government started locking up people they didn't like without any proof - isn't that the same mindset - it happens in many places throught the world already.

If you want fairness and equality - and most of us do - then we must act fairly and equally ourselves.

If corruption has happened then simply provide the evidence.

Forming lynch mobs (and whipping up people's hatred via social media) is simply not the answer and never will be.

274Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:26 am

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I’ll let the British Medical Journal know that they’ve been reclassified as social media by an expert.
:rofl:

275Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:36 am

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bourne admits he lied  about not having direct conversations and mails with Hancock in the run up to his plastic cups company receiving a Covid vaccine packaging contract from Hancock’s department. 

Hancock distances himself

276Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:07 am

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:I’ll let the British Medical Journal know that they’ve been reclassified as social media by an expert.
:rofl:

You really are a knobhead.

You really think anyone believes you read the BMJ, of course they don't, so where did you find out about the article - social media of course.

The very same social media you once told us you NEVER read.

Of course you don't...

Rolling Eyes

277Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:26 am

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:Bourne admits he lied  about not having direct conversations and mails with Hancock in the run up to his plastic cups company receiving a Covid vaccine packaging contract from Hancock’s department. 

Hancock distances himself

And your point is caller???

Do you not ever read the articles you link to???

Later that month, Bourne said he was called back by the same distributor. The firm, which already had a general government contract in place to supply the NHS regularly when Covid struck, said it had been asked by the government to supply test tubes. Bourne persuaded the firm he could produce the vials, and said he also discussed Hinpack’s work with two civil servants representing the DHSC.

In August, he switched distributor, and is now supplying the same tubes via Alpha Laboratories, which also had a pre-existing contract with DHSC. In a statement, Alpha Laboratories said: “Although we were aware Alex Bourne had met Mr Hancock, this was irrelevant to our discussions as we were sourcing from Hinpack a price-competitive product for the NHS supply chain which fitted within our product range.”

So even your own link states he never had a government contract but was only the subby to those that had.


Yet another example of someone who believes himself to be an upholder of truth and honesty immeadiately condemning someone of being guilty without a shred of actual proof simply because it fits in with their preconceived hatred and prejudice.

Another one joining the social media lynch mob of saying someone is 'guilty' and need to prove they are 'innocent' and not what fairness and justice actually is whereby everyone is actually innocent until proven guilty.

Oh but I forget Wanderlust tells us he doesn't read social media!!!

Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 29480525-4f98-4f5b-bb47-916e761a545c-1020x612

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

278Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:42 am

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Interesting article in the "i" which gives details of 66 ministers/junior ministers and others in Cameron's administration that now have high paid jobs with companies that were directly influenced by the decisions they made and the portfolios they worked on whilst in government.

Probably just coincidence.

279Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:05 am

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:Interesting article in the "i" which gives details of 66 ministers/junior ministers and others in Cameron's administration that now have high paid jobs with companies that were directly influenced by the decisions they made and the portfolios they worked on whilst in government.

Probably just coincidence.

Probably not.

Doesn't mean they've done anything wrong/illegal though.

If you were going to hire the best person for your business would it not make sense to employ someone who you knew were not only au fait with the work you were doing but also the procedure and systems you would need to deal with in terms of progressing it?

I've known loads of people in the public sector over the years going on to be employed by the contractor company's they had been dealing with because they had the skill, knowledge and training that the contractor was in need of.

I've been 'head hunted' a few times myself but never tempted to jump ship, even for the money on offer.

In the private sector key employees are often head hunted by rival firms all the time - I can't see much of a difference between the this and the point the 'i' paper is attempting to insinuate here can you?

This seems to be the norm in recent years where mud is thrown and people believe that something dodgy must certainly be going on - social media seems to thrive off it.

If something corrupt has happened, then prove it and get them put in prison, if not then isn't everybody in this country innocent until proven guilty or does that not apply when it is against those you personally don't like the politics of?

280Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:16 am

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

281Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:51 am

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Are we surprised?!

May not be illegal, but certainly doesn't pass the "smell test"..... again!

In the words of Ted Hastings from Line of Duty: "What have we become? Whatever happened to honesty and integrity?"

282Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:59 am

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker

283Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:01 am

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Yes is the simple answer, all IS above board here.

As I've been saying, people are led to believe and WANT to believe that something wrong is going on but when you strip away the insinuations and slurs there is little if anything in it.

This is from the article itself -

'Acted entirely properly'

A Department of Health source said Mr Hancock had discussed the fact he was to be gifted shares in the firm with civil servants before he accepted them.

They ruled that if any conflicts of interest were to arise, they could be handled in line with the ministerial code, the rulebook setting out the standards of conduct for ministers.

The department also said the health secretary had no active role in running Topwood, and as health secretary for England, he had no responsibility for NHS Wales.

A government spokesperson said: "Mr Hancock has acted entirely properly in these circumstances. All declarations of interest have been made in accordance with the ministerial code. Ministers have no involvement in the awarding of these contracts, and no conflict of interest arises."

If you look at the original report on all this from an article from the Guido Fawkes blog it even says there is nothing in the story ffs!!!

"Matt Hancock is another big earner this month, registering a new gift of 15% of the issued share capital of Topwood Limited, his sister’s company apparently, under “a delegated management arrangement”. Given the current on-going cronyism debate and before everyone explodes, Guido would point out that while Topwood has been awarded two contracts with the NHS for waste destruction – worth £300,000 – they were awarded by NHS Wales, not NHS England for which he is responsible. Still, it seems a little reckless in the circumstances…"

https://order-order.com/2021/04/14/theresa-may-pockets-160370-from-jp-morgan-hancock-has-shares-in-nhs-contractor/

284Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:05 am

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
"As I've been saying, people are led to believe and WANT to believe that something wrong is going on but when you strip away the insinuations and slurs there is little if anything in it".


Might be worth posting that on 'Vince Watch', Sluffy. Just a thought. Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 1f601 

285Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:57 am

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@okocha wrote:
Are we surprised?!

May not be illegal, but certainly doesn't pass the "smell test"..... again!

In the words of Ted Hastings from Line of Duty: "What have we become? Whatever happened to honesty and integrity?"
The bit that made me laugh was the line "a government spokesman said there was no conflict of interest".

Well if the government say it's all above board it must be then :rofl:

286Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:42 am

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@boltonbonce wrote:"As I've been saying, people are led to believe and WANT to believe that something wrong is going on but when you strip away the insinuations and slurs there is little if anything in it".


Might be worth posting that on 'Vince Watch', Sluffy. Just a thought. Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 1f601 

To be fair to Bob and the Vince thread we are talking about a difference in nuance between the two things here.

In terms of 'croynism' against the Tory government (and civil servants) in general a great deal is being made out that everything is 'dodgy' and quite truthfully it simply isn't - as per Hancock above, similarly with all this hoo-ha over Bill Crothers recently (question, can you or anyone else actually tell me what he's actually is being accused of doing wrong - although it's been in the papers and social media for the last few days - and before you say getting a job with Greensill whilst still a civil servant, then I refer you to him seeking permission to do so from the head of the civil service prior to doing so AND Greensill not even having a contract with the government at the time!).

However in respect of Vince there IS factual evidence that he's taken millions out of his company for his own 'vanity' projects such as FGR.

If he can pay the money back when it falls due, then he hasn't done anything wrong but if he can't....

...he most certainly has!

287Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:51 am

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:
@okocha wrote:
Are we surprised?!

May not be illegal, but certainly doesn't pass the "smell test"..... again!

In the words of Ted Hastings from Line of Duty: "What have we become? Whatever happened to honesty and integrity?"
The bit that made me laugh was the line "a government spokesman said there was no conflict of interest".

Well if the government say it's all above board it must be then :rofl:

Well if you're so convinced there IS something dodgy about this then tell us all what it is.

How can anyone - let alone Hancock - who doesn't award contracts and dosen't even has any authority over NHS Wales who awarded the contract to the firm in question, influence the decision of the contract award???

I won't hold my breath for your explanation though - as per usual!!!

288Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:04 am

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I know it's a crazy idea but what if Ministers and their families were not allowed to invest or be part of companies that come under their remit? Surely that would be sensible and stop these kind of incidents?

289Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:05 am

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:I know it's a crazy idea but what if Ministers and their families were not allowed to invest or be part of companies that come under their remit? Surely that would be sensible and stop these kind of incidents?
I would agree with that.

290Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:45 am

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
The PM announces a Greensill inquiry and the inquiry is headed by Nigel Boardman. 


He is a consultant of Slaughter and May. Slaughter and May lobbied against tightening lobbying laws.


It'll be as big a whitewash as the racism report

291Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:10 pm

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Norpig wrote:I know it's a crazy idea but what if Ministers and their families were not allowed to invest or be part of companies that come under their remit? Surely that would be sensible and stop these kind of incidents?

Well in a sort of way that is what happens now.

If anyone, never mind a Minister, is involved with anything in which they or their family have any 'interests' in (such as shares) they have to declare an interest and take no part in the decission making process, unless the interest is negligable.

That's what Hancock did.

The award of the contract to his sisters owned company was made by NHS Wales...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHS_Wales

...which means it falls under the control of the Welsh Asembly - or in otherwords the Welsh government and NOT Parliament.

The award of the contract would have been done by welsh civil servants.

So Hancock is totally not involved at all - even though the papers, social media and Wanderlust obviously believe he was!

Dare I say it but it is once again people not understanding what actually happens in government (or business for that matter) and simply believe (want to believe even) anything that makes them look bad!

Even the originator of the story 'Guido Fawlks' basically states that there's nothing actually in the story itself "they were awarded by NHS Wales, not NHS England for which he is responsible. Still, it seems a little reckless in the circumstances…" yet the BMJ and BBC have picked up on the story and reported it as there WAS something dodgy because Hancock's name was mentioned.

Even the journalists (or at least some of them) don't understand what they are reporting - similarly (dare I say it again) as to how Iles stirred the pot over Anderson without any knowledge of the legalitities in keeping an insolvent company trading legally.

Some journalists (and others) however know exactly what the facts are yet still report them in such a way to discredit the government and/or its Ministers because it suits their political agendas to do so.

It's all a big game really and the general public are played because they don't know/understand what the facts are and simply happy (like Wanderlust clearly is) to believe anything bad about the Tory government (Ken Anderson previously) because that is what they want to believe anyway!

I'm not saying everything is done honestly but neither everything that has been reported on the Tory party and its Ministers that has now turned into a 'sleaze' campaign against the government has been corrupt/illegal,cronyism, or whatever else you want to class it as.

In fact I suggest the majority of it hasn't been sleaze, cronyism, nose in the trough at all!!!

That's why I stay out of politics - both sides are no different than each other.

There are only the two rules in politics - first gain power, second keep power - all this is about really is to sowing the seeds of distrust of the government in peoples minds so that they will vote Labour rather than Tory in the next General Election.

(It will be interesting how people will vote in next months local elections to see what if any effect so far all this has had on how people will be voting?)

292Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:21 pm

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@okocha wrote:The PM announces a Greensill inquiry and the inquiry is headed by Nigel Boardman. 


He is a consultant of Slaughter and May. Slaughter and May lobbied against tightening lobbying laws.


It'll be as big a whitewash as the racism report

I've asked you countless times to post the link to your copy and paste's.

If not I'll simply remove all future ones as we have no idea who said it or in what context it was said.

Fair warning.

293Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:22 pm

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
It was part of a private email sent to me. Fair answer?

You've asked me three times in total, but obviously I have no link that I can supply on this occasion.

294Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:54 pm

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Why do you need a source posted for something that’s common knowledge? Ridiculous reaction.

295Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:20 pm

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Norpig wrote:I know it's a crazy idea but what if Ministers and their families were not allowed to invest or be part of companies that come under their remit? Surely that would be sensible and stop these kind of incidents?
There are rules like this for NHS Trust directors. It doesn't stop it happening and it doesn't stop the cover-ups when it does.

296Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:38 pm

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Pretty obvious the rules aren’t fit for purpose, the 2014 lobbying act was a crock of shit then and the fears raised at the time have been proved correct.

297Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:12 pm

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@okocha wrote:It was part of a private email sent to me. Fair answer?

You've asked me three times in total, but obviously I have no link that I can supply on this occasion.

I've asked you numerous times in the past as well as the recent two or three.

And what is the point in passing on gossip if you don't even know where it originates from or who said it?

If you got a private email sent you from QAnon would you post it on here as something you believe in???

Fair reply?

298Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:30 pm

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:Why do you need a source posted for something that’s common knowledge? Ridiculous reaction.

If it's such common knowledge then why don't you link to the source then so we can all see who said it and in what context.

I've worked in nuclear free local authorities (link below) but it doesn't mean I'm against nuclear power, I'm still plugged into the national grid for my electricity (so to are the authorities!) - my point being just because I worked there, did my job and represented the aims of the authority, it didn't mean I was personally committed to them all.

Boardman my well have worked at a law firm that lobbied against tightening lobbying laws but that doesn't mean the firm held that view themselves - I would have thought it was more likely that they had been employed by a client to undertake such work? - nor that Boardman personally was involved with this particular work/client - and even if he was that it was anything more than a job to him rather than some personal belief of his.

Now can you see why it is important to understand who is making these claims and in what context they are doing so?


https://www.nuclearpolicy.info/about/about-nfla/

299Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:52 pm

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Ten Bobsworth wrote:
@Norpig wrote:I know it's a crazy idea but what if Ministers and their families were not allowed to invest or be part of companies that come under their remit? Surely that would be sensible and stop these kind of incidents?
There are rules like this for NHS Trust directors. It doesn't stop it happening and it doesn't stop the cover-ups when it does.

True Bob.

We don't live in a perfect world and some will always attempt to take more than they are entitled to - and some employers will cover-up the mess rather than face the consequences of public scandals.

There isn't a perfect way either to prevent abuses taking place, otherwise they would already be implemented everywhere.

Generally speaking the weakness in the system is usually human, someone not monitoring and checking as they probably should have been doing, or maybe being part of the scam themselves, or reporting what they found to someone who is.

Liverpool Council seems to be a case in point at the moment - an interesting read about it from yesterday if you haven't seen it -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56679807

It's about 'sleaze' by Labour politicians and the country's biggest Trade Union but it hardly got a mention in the headlines because 'sleaze' seems to only be done by the Tory party at the moment apparently - least I've not seen the likes of Maugham et al on social media calling for Judicial Reviews and allegations of cronyism!

I tell you - they are all as bad as each other whatever the colour is on their party rosettes!

300Nepotism/Cronyism Watch - Page 10 Empty Re: Nepotism/Cronyism Watch Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:05 pm

Hip Priest

Hip Priest
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Listen everybody, you lot might just see this business as the usual common or garden everyday Tory sleaze and cronyism, jobs for the boys, massive government contracts handed out to MP's friends, relatives, local pub landlords etc, greedy Tory MPs queuing up to get their noses in the trough.

Well you'd all be completely wrong. Sluffy says everything here is whiter than white and completely above board. That's more than enough for me!

Sluffy's ALWAYS RIGHT isn't he?

He bloody is, just ask him!!!

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