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Qualia

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Reebok Trotter
jayjay23
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1Qualia Empty Qualia Sat Apr 14 2012, 17:52

jayjay23

jayjay23
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly

Thought this was interesting.

The question hinges on whether color is a product of the mind or an inherent property of objects. While most philosophers will agree that color assignment corresponds to light frequency, it is not at all clear whether the particular psychological phenomena of color are imposed on these visual signals by the mind, or whether such qualia are somehow naturally associated with their noumena.

Another way to look at this question is to assume two people ("Fred" and "George" for the sake of convenience) see colors differently. That is, when Fred sees the sky, his mind interprets this light signal as blue. He calls the sky "blue." However, when George sees the sky, his mind assigns green to that light frequency. If Fred were able to step into George's mind, he would be amazed that George saw green skies. However, George has learned to associate the word "blue" with what his mind sees as green, and so he calls the sky "blue", because for him the color green has the name "blue."

The question is whether blue must be blue for all people, or whether the perception of that particular color is assigned by the mind.

This extends to all areas of the physical reality, where the outside world we perceive is merely a representation of what is impressed upon the senses. The objects we see are in truth wave-emitting (or reflecting) objects which the brain shows to the conscious self in various forms and colors. Whether the colors and forms experienced perfectly match between person to person, may never be known. That people can communicate accurately shows that the order and proportionality in which experience is interpreted is generally reliable. Thus one's reality is, at least, compatible to another person's in terms of structure and ratio.

2Qualia Empty Re: Qualia Sat Apr 14 2012, 17:58

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Over to you Largehat! Smile

3Qualia Empty Re: Qualia Sat Apr 14 2012, 17:59

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

This is definitely a thread for the gifted.

4Qualia Empty Re: Qualia Sat Apr 14 2012, 18:01

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

right apologies - i didn't read all that but i get the gist.

i saw that programe ages ago which basically explained everything in the world is black and white and our eyes just interpret the colours.

I was basically dumbfounded and still am.

5Qualia Empty Re: Qualia Sat Apr 14 2012, 18:12

largehat

largehat
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

Funny! Physics isn't really my bag.

It reminds me of the Structuralist movement in the first half of the twentieth century. One of the things that examined was the relationship between language 'the signifier' and that which is being nominated by the use of that language 'the signified'.

For example we all have these objects in our home which are made of wood and operate on hinges which are used to open or fill a rectangular shaped hole in the wall. We call them "doors", but a Structuralist would argue that there is nothing "doorish" about that object and thus, language is an entirely cultural construct.

This relationship between language and every day objects was explored in Imagist poetry. What the Imagists did was to have an every day experience and write a 'normal' length poem, and then really force themselves to drill down into what was the essence of the mood and message - the images - they were trying to capture, and through revision, they were left with a very short, and on the surface, basic poem.

Probably the most famous Imagist poem is Ezra Pound's 'On a Station of the Metro'.

The entire poem is as follows -

The apparition of these faces in the crowd;
Petals on a wet, black bough.

My favourite Imagist poem is 'The Red Wheelbarrow' by the American writer, William Carlos Williams - again, the relationship between objects and the outside world is explored.

so much depends
upon

a red wheel
barrow

glazed with rain
water

beside the white
chickens.

On the surface these poems seem nonsensical but when you really examine them they are ripe for analysis. They are 'condensed' rather than being 'short' poems.

The message of these poems is that there are no ideas but in things around us. So jayjay's post, in its treatment of the physical and intellectualisation of colour, very much makes me think of this. Physics isn't my cup of tea, but at a higher level it is deeply philosophical.



Last edited by largehat on Sat Apr 14 2012, 18:15; edited 1 time in total

6Qualia Empty Re: Qualia Sat Apr 14 2012, 18:13

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

I thought The Red Wheelbarrow was penned by the Venkys ? ( It was the only form of transport they had to get the chickens to the market ).

The poem is stuck on the wall of the dressing room at Ewood Park. What the players make of it is another matter.

7Qualia Empty Re: Qualia Sat Apr 14 2012, 18:32

jayjay23

jayjay23
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly

largehat wrote:Funny! Physics isn't really my bag.

It reminds me of the Structuralist movement in the first half of the twentieth century. One of the things that examined was the relationship between language 'the signifier' and that which is being nominated by the use of that language 'the signified'.



It didn't think you were that old?
How old are you?

8Qualia Empty Re: Qualia Sat Apr 14 2012, 18:43

largehat

largehat
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

Old enough to have read books about literary theory...

9Qualia Empty Re: Qualia Sat Apr 14 2012, 22:04

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

Wow, there's been a lot of cutting and pasting with this one.

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