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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » Donald Trump for President of the USA

Donald Trump for President of the USA

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571 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:33 pm

Sluffy

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Admin
@T.R.O.Y wrote:‘Anti-Muslim sentiment’ - not racism. 

This isn’t why it’s pointless having a conversation with you, whether deliberately or not you have a habit of twisting comments to suit your narrative. 

So no, I’m not interested in playing your game either. 

I’ll continue to post my opinions on the topics I hold an interest in so long as there’s a  debate to be had, I’ve never done any different.

I've not twisted anything.

Read my post again.

It's in two clear and distinct parts - sentiments (opinion) and racism.

Nowhere have I merged the two.

So please stop these petty, pointless arguments over absolutely nothing.

Thank you.

@Sluffy wrote:

There's never been any anti-Muslim sentiment OR any other racism on here from anyone let alone mods.

On the few times racist posts have happened in the past it has led directly to the banning of accounts.

People are free to express their views and OPINIONS on here - which very well may be contrary to your own - BUT RACISM has never been tolerated on Nuts - and you are well out of order to infer that it ever had.

572 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:44 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
You never did grasp the irony of posting multiple petty, arguments while telling someone else to stop making petty argumentative posts either.

Thank you.

573 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:44 pm

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
On the one hand, Theresa May is committed to Brexit a cornerstone of which is our trading relationship with America. But now there's a strong possibility that she will cancel Trump's state visit.
He retweeted 3 anti Islamic videos that were posted by Britain First.

574 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:16 pm

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
@wanderlust wrote:On the one hand, Theresa May is committed to Brexit a cornerstone of which is our trading relationship with America. But now there's a strong possibility that she will cancel Trump's state visit.
He retweeted 3 anti Islamic videos that were posted by Britain First.

She won't cancel his visit - that is just (Guardian) wishful thinking.

575 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:27 pm

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@xmiles wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:On the one hand, Theresa May is committed to Brexit a cornerstone of which is our trading relationship with America. But now there's a strong possibility that she will cancel Trump's state visit.
He retweeted 3 anti Islamic videos that were posted by Britain First.

She won't cancel his visit - that is just (Guardian) wishful thinking.
Not just the Gurniad getting huffy about it though.

Meanwhile Trump's former national security adviser Mike Flynn has fessed up to lying to the FBI about Russiagate. 
Trump had previously asked the former FBI Director James Comey to "back off" from investigating Flynn - and when he refused to do so, Trump fired him so he is definitely implicated. Be interesting to see where this leads especially as the Manafort and Papadopolous investigations are ongoing.

576 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:14 pm

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Impeachment on the way?

577 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:55 am

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@gloswhite wrote:Impeachment on the way?

I think he’ll end up serving his full term. An embarrassment to the country, and a complete waste of valuable time for the rest of us.

Thanks for supporting him.

578 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:58 pm

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@T.R.O.Y wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:Impeachment on the way?

I think he’ll end up serving his full term. An embarrassment to the country, and a complete waste of valuable time for the rest of us.

Thanks for supporting him.
Thanks for supporting him. 
Why you should think this, I don't know. I've never supported him, I just didn't want Clinton to win.
I was optimistic at the beginning that he might improve, with checks and balances in place, but this wasn't to be. I think he's seriously damaged the credibility of the office of POTUS, which, in turn, will allow the next President a free hand to impose almost anything on their country, which will have an effect around the world, in order to sort out what may be a very disrupted, and damaged, country. In fact, he's so bad at this President thing, its almost as if he's got a secret agenda he's working to. If so, I don't know what it could be, but I do know, its not working for the rest of us.

579 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:15 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
You went to great lengths to explain why Trump was the better choice than Clinton on this thread, as well as suggesting he'd be good for the UK, that's all I meant.

I agree with every word of your analysis above though.

580 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:29 pm

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Had the Democrats done the right thing,and supported Bernie,we wouldn't be witnessing this shambles.

581 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:55 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Aye, if only Bonce.

582 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:31 pm

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@T.R.O.Y wrote:You went to great lengths to explain why Trump was the better choice than Clinton on this thread, as well as suggesting he'd be good for the UK, that's all I meant.

I agree with every word of your analysis above though.
Yes, I did, and at the time, that was what I believed. 
The problem with Trump is that he doesn't seem to realise the influence the office has, and to be honest, the way he goes about is both naive and childish, (but feel there has to be more to him, hasn't there)? I heard on the radio that he's accomplishing a lot of changes, behind the scenes, in the States, many of which have been needed for years.
Regards being good for the UK, now that he's been told off by the PM, anything could happen.

583 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:14 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I'd be interested to know what he has achieved, as there's been little coverage of positive actions his office has taken – we (and the media)spend too much time focussing on his immature twitter rants! 

The most infuriating for me is his climate change denial, actions like approving drilling in the arctic will cause irreversible damage it's incredibly depressing.

Do you see now why i was asking for sources of claims like Clinton pardons known drug dealers and is illegally funded? The revelations regarding Russian funded propaganda show how important it is to questions sources.

584 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:42 pm

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

585 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:37 pm

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@T.R.O.Y wrote:I'd be interested to know what he has achieved, as there's been little coverage of positive actions his office has taken – we (and the media)spend too much time focussing on his immature twitter rants! 

The most infuriating for me is his climate change denial, actions like approving drilling in the arctic will cause irreversible damage it's incredibly depressing.

Do you see now why i was asking for sources of claims like Clinton pardons known drug dealers and is illegally funded? The revelations regarding Russian funded propaganda show how important it is to questions sources.
I believe, but can't be bothered to check it out, if I'm honest, are his moves to change the taxation system, thus reducing tax for the corporations (?). His thinking would seem to be (obviously a business man), that lower taxes will make more money available. An argument currently bouncing back and fore between our own politicians.

586 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:39 pm

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
i think we are all aware that he's mainly wind and piss, threatening, and then tweeting, and then pulling back, or going quiet. The problem is that one day he'll actually do something he said he will. (I heard a report that he was quietly getting on with building his wall, and that many of the components had been ear-marked and bought.

587 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:47 pm

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Can't wait to see the wall.

588 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:58 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Hmmm his tax plan (put simply) cuts massive amounts from Medicare and Medicaid budgets (around $5 trillion) to fund a tax break for the very richest. 

Not much of a success to be honest, the US already has very low tax rates compared to the rest of the developed world. Although I'm sure that's the direction a Tory government will be taking us if they manage to swindle a hard Brexit.

589 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:00 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
There's also a pretty tasty tax break in there for private jet owners! Nice to hear, those poor bastards normally have it so tough.

590 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:32 pm

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
A cynic would say that he'll have all the necessary tax breaks, etc, in place for when he finishes his presidency, and takes over the running of his companies again  Very Happy

591 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:10 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Trump now confirming his status as a threat to world peace with his stance on Jerusalem. The man is a sack of shit.

592 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:13 pm

Sluffy

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Admin
@T.R.O.Y wrote:Trump now confirming his status as a threat to world peace with his stance on Jerusalem. The man is a sack of shit.

Maybe he is but to be fair to him he is stating the obvious which the rest of the world pretend isn't the case.

Israel's governance, legislature and judicial authorities are all located in Jerusalem and in most country's that's where their capital is too.

It's just been a case of 'the emperor's new clothes' up to now from the rest of the world pretending Tel Aviv was still the capital but everyone knows it's Jerusalem in reality.

No doubt it will cause all sorts of problems - all religious based - but for what it is worth Jerusalem is the capital of Israel in all but name and has been for years.



593 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:37 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Do you have any understanding of why Jerusalem isn't recognised as the Israeli capital or (more importantly) how it became part of the Israeli state?

594 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:02 pm

Reebok Trotter

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y wrote:Do you have any understanding of why Jerusalem isn't recognised as the Israeli capital or (more importantly) how it became part of the Israeli state?

I don't so please enlighten me.

595 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:55 pm

Sluffy

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Admin
@T.R.O.Y wrote:Do you have any understanding of why Jerusalem isn't recognised as the Israeli capital or (more importantly) how it became part of the Israeli state?

Yes and yes.

Doesn't change the fact though that Israel has governed itself from Jerusalem from 1949 onwards and that it built its permanent 'Parliament' there in 1966 - over 50 years ago!

Once again the recent problems regarding Israel and its neighbours date back to France and ourselves (The Balfour Declaration) using our colonial powers to divide up the middle east, ignoring the wishes of those that lived there!

Anyway, we are where we are and whether anybody likes it or not Israel is governed and run from its administrative centre - Jerusalem - even though up to Trump today, everybody else pretended it did not.

Now has Trump done a wise thing - probably not.

Should Balfour/ the British Government / the League of Nations - given Israel Palestine's land to live on without their say so - definitely not.

But we did and so did Trump!

Never the less even if it turns out to be the worst thing he does - he has only stated a truism - Jerusalem is the administrative, legislative and judicial centre of the country and has been for decades and is its capital in all but international recognition of it.

596 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:55 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I’ll take that as a no then Sluffy.

Towards the end of the 6 day war Israel were repeatedly warned off Jerusalem, even by their chief ally the US. None of the western powers or the Soviets wanted a war in the Middle East as they knew  it they’d be dragged in to support their respective allies.

For the obvious, religious reasons though Israel wanted to take Arab controlled Jerusalem (Jordanian troops had occupied the city since Israel’s last land grab of Palestinian land). 

And even though they had already crushed Egypt in the Sinai and Jordan in the Golan Heights they did. And have been condemned by their own allies and the US for years since. They bulldozed Arab quarters of the city within days and 1000’s of Palestinians fled the city and have never been allowed to return since. 

A key basis of any peace agreement is the fact the international community do not recognise Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and the Palestinians claim to it remains valid, and can one day return.

Trump has crushed years of diplomacy because he’s not interested in history, only placating the right wing of his supporters.



Last edited by T.R.O.Y on Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

597 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:57 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Jeremy Bowen The Six Day War if you’re interested in learning the facts, an excellent account of the war and it’s affects on the region.

598 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:03 pm

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Ain't religion wonderful? It just keeps on giving!

599 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:54 pm

Sluffy

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Admin
@T.R.O.Y wrote:I’ll take that as a no then Sluffy.

Towards the end of the 6 day war Israel were repeatedly warned off Jerusalem, even by their chief ally the US. None of the western powers or the Soviets wanted a war in the Middle East as they knew  it they’d be dragged in to support their respective allies.

For the obvious, religious reasons though Israel wanted to take Arab controlled Jerusalem (Jordanian troops had occupied the city since Israel’s last land grab of Palestinian land). 

And even though they had already crushed Egypt in the Sinai and Jordan in the Golan Heights they did. And have been condemned by their own allies and the US for years since. They bulldozed Arab quarters of the city within days and 1000’s of Palestinians fled the city and have never been allowed to return since. 

A key basis of any peace agreement is the fact the international community do not recognise Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and the Palestinians claim to it remains valid, and can one day return.

Trump has crushed years of diplomacy because he’s not interested in history, only placating the right wing of his supporters.

You can take it how you like mate but you'll find if you knew your history that Israel's settling in Jerusalem in the modern era began following its liberation from the Ottoman Empire in 1917 (Lawrence of Arabia and all that) and by 1948 the population of 165,000 consisted of two thirds Jews and one third Arabs.

Following the Arab / Israeli War of 1948 a more formalised division of Jerusalem was established with Israel having the majority of the city.

It was also in 1948 the Israel declared Jerusalem its capital - and as from that time established its administrative, legislative and judicial centres there.

I remember watching the 6 day war on the news when it was happening - but that was nearly TWENTY YEARS AFTER Jerusalem had become Israel's capital and home of its 'Parliament' and highest Law Court!

Jordanian troops have never been in control of Jerusalem - you are misinformed about that.  Since 1917 to 1948 it was basically a British protectorate - my father actually served there following from WWII until his demob came through - and when we left the ensuing war saw Israel taking control of the city apart from East Jerusalem.

Even taking into account the events of 1967, Jerusalem has been occupied now for over well over 50 years.

Of course a great many wrongs have happened since 1917 and many people have (and do) suffer because of it but the reality on the ground is that Jerusalem IS the capital of Israel in all but recognition from the wider world.

If this was to have happen in any other country in the world, then international recognition would have been given decades ago.

I'm not saying it is a good thing that Trump has done but it certainly has been a massive elephant in the room that for decades that no one has wanted to mention until today.

600 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA on Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:07 pm

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
1948 - 1967 Jordanian troops controlled the West Bank including East Jerusalem, history is factual not something you can twist like you normally do on here. Look it up.

Israel may have declared Jerusalem it’s capital but thats beside the point it’s meaningless, Palestine claim East Jerusalem as theirs too. Not recognising that (as Trump has done) ends any miniscule chance of a two state solution and with it peace.

You have no argument, you’re trying to score points by saying it’s a ‘truism’. We are all well aware of that, but it is the political symbolism of the city and yet another insult to the Palestinian people which threatens peace and has caused such outrage.

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