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Brexit negotiations

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1 Brexit negotiations on Tue Jun 20 2017, 22:37

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
What day is it? Wednesday or something like that? It's just that the media had a big hurrah about the negotiations starting on Monday and that the first day would outline the overall picture but I haven't heard anything yet from the Tory media. Huffington post had something about the EU leaders trying to stop laughing and a few rags talking about the massive price Britain will have to pay But other than that they've been quiet. I mean silent. Like a baby rabbit in a wolfs lair. 
There was something about what will happen when the young labour voters realise they have voted for a pro brexit party but other than that zilch. 

Perhaps that's a sign it's going well :rofl:

2 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jun 21 2017, 21:46

bwfc71

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Talks have started and next major meeting is sometime next month, just before Brussels start their summer break (Westminster MPs have far more holidays than Brussels MEPs and get paid more than Brussels MEPs)

Basically David Davis wanted all major points to be discussed at same time, thus trying to break the EU protocol of divorce - it was naturally declined.

UK has never had, and never will have the upper hand in these talks as it is one country of 65 million against 27 countries with a total population of about 600million.  Why would EU want to give us a better deal than now, which would lead to other countries wanting the same.  yes there will be trade but prices will rise, co-operative jobs will move and the Banks will definitely make UK smaller market than now.

3 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jun 22 2017, 07:41

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The thing that gets me is that the idiot Davis seemed actually surprised that he was quickly put in his box. I suspect he genuinely believes all the crap that the corporates spouted to trick the nation to vote us out of Europe. 

It's going to be a very, very steep learning curve. That said I'm not convinced he's smart enough to work it out before it's too late.

4 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jun 22 2017, 08:27

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
It wasn't the corporates that persuaded people to vote brexit - most of them wanted us to stay in the EU. It was the combination of right wing media, racists and some opportunist politicians leading project lie sponsored by a few billionaires. Couple that with the inept project fear, Corbyn and apathy amongst young voters and we have the disaster that we now face.

5 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jun 22 2017, 14:32

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
You two should listen to yourselves. Its gone from repetitive, to amusing, and now its just pathetic.

6 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jun 22 2017, 14:59

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Glos what will it take to convince you that brexit is a mistake?

7 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jun 22 2017, 15:29

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:Glos what will it take to convince you that brexit is a mistake?

52% voted for Brexit. That's a majority, albeit a slim one.

So are you saying that the 52%, which will include some very clever people, are all wrong? And you are 100% right.

Don't answer that, because we know you and wanderlust think you are a pair of smarty-pants.

We know your views, why you feel the need to keep posting them is beyond me. Brexit is going to happen, you need to accept it. All you're doing now is pissing people off.

8 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jun 22 2017, 15:35

Norpig

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John McGinlay
John McGinlay
i'll think you'll find someone high up on here has that job more than covered Nat

9 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jun 22 2017, 16:15

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Natasha Whittam wrote:
xmiles wrote:Glos what will it take to convince you that brexit is a mistake?

52% voted for Brexit. That's a majority, albeit a slim one.

So are you saying that the 52%, which will include some very clever people, are all wrong? And you are 100% right.

Don't answer that, because we know you and wanderlust think you are a pair of smarty-pants.

We know your views, why you feel the need to keep posting them is beyond me. Brexit is going to happen, you need to accept it. All you're doing now is pissing people off.


So you think that if 37% of the electorate vote for something it must be right and cannot be questioned.

10 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jun 22 2017, 16:16

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:So you think that if 37% of the electorate vote for something it must be right and cannot be questioned.

It can be questioned, it can be mocked. But it won't change a damn thing. So why keep making threads about it?

11 Re: Brexit negotiations on Fri Jun 23 2017, 08:26

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
May's opening gambit is a concession - that beyond a date yet to be agreed EU nationals living in the U.K. Will get benefits and healthcare if they are here for 5 years,

Absolutely nothing in return from the EU as you'd expect from any sensible negotiator.

She's already played a key card, got zilch for it and lost the confidence of the more extreme right who voted to leave in one fell swoop. They're pissing their sides all over Europe today.

Absolutely bricking it just thinking of what she'll do next – but we'll find out soon enough.

12 Re: Brexit negotiations on Fri Jun 23 2017, 09:00

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:It wasn't the corporates that persuaded people to vote brexit - most of them wanted us to stay in the EU. It was the combination of right wing media, racists and some opportunist politicians leading project lie sponsored by a few billionaires. Couple that with the inept project fear, Corbyn and apathy amongst young voters and we have the disaster that we now face.
Have a look into The Atlantic Bridge organisation and the Atlantic Bridge Project and their right wing billionaire corporate influence on voting and elections here and in the USA - which includes control of the media to their own ends. Here's a starter which appeared in the Gurniad. 

Another aspect is that whilst corporation tax is 34% in France and 30% in Germany it remains at just 20% in the U.K. - one of the great concerns is that we are effectively moving towards being a corporate tax haven as several parts of the U.K. Overseas already are. We are already kowtowing to and incentivising the corporates by undercutting the EU so you have to wonder how much further down that road are the tories prepared to take us in order to sort out the economy? Obviously they could raise CT by 10% to bring us in line with the rest of Europe and stabilise our economy overnight but they won't.

There is a lot of corporate benefit in brexit and the Atlantic Bridge and others have the money, influence (funding both the tories and ukip) and control of the media to make it happen. Easy to drip feed a oversimplified populist message through their many media outlets.

13 Re: Brexit negotiations on Fri Jun 23 2017, 10:35

finlaymcdanger


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
wanderlust wrote:May's opening gambit is a concession - that beyond a date yet to be agreed EU nationals living in the U.K. Will get benefits and healthcare if they are here for 5 years,

Absolutely nothing in return from the EU as you'd expect from any sensible negotiator.

She's already played a key card, got zilch for it and lost the confidence of the more extreme right who voted to leave in one fell swoop. They're pissing their sides all over Europe today.

Absolutely bricking it just thinking of what she'll do next – but we'll find out soon enough.

She won't survive the negotiations. Not a cat in hell's chance.

14 Re: Brexit negotiations on Fri Jun 23 2017, 21:05

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
finlaymcdanger wrote:
wanderlust wrote:May's opening gambit is a concession - that beyond a date yet to be agreed EU nationals living in the U.K. Will get benefits and healthcare if they are here for 5 years,

Absolutely nothing in return from the EU as you'd expect from any sensible negotiator.

She's already played a key card, got zilch for it and lost the confidence of the more extreme right who voted to leave in one fell swoop. They're pissing their sides all over Europe today.

Absolutely bricking it just thinking of what she'll do next – but we'll find out soon enough.

She won't survive the negotiations. Not a cat in hell's chance.
You reckon? Too many people have stuck their necks out way to far to support the brexit pipe dream to get rid of her now imo. 

We're going all the way to hell.

Although it's always possible they might panic and throw some other fool into the firing line to take the rap.

15 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jul 17 2017, 10:37

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
After the opening pleasantries, Davis launches himself into the talks today with the strapline "Now let's get down to business" which is amusing to the Europeans as it's Britain that has been prevaricating thus far, distracted by a stupid election. I suspect that we'll finally get an idea of how it's going over the next week or so as the details start to leak out and the press express their delight or more likely indignation as they try to align their oversimplified pre-Brexit stances with the reality of genuine negotiations with real humans.

It's going to be interesting to see the press reaction to British concessions. Would they be happy to sell out Gibraltar for example? if so it would be in sharp contrast to the media furore when the Argies tried to take back the Falklands. And what of the exit fee or freedom of movement? 

Fireworks ahead I reckon.

16 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jul 17 2017, 12:27

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
It amuses me to see how the UK is always painted in a bad light with regards to negotiations, but I would point out that if the Europeans were so good, how come it takes so many years to actually finish anything, and even when they have to just sign on the dotted line, a petty political institution, caring only about their own local concerns, can put the boot in, and win. 
Considering there are 27 'teams' on the other side, any prevarication, delays, and problems are more likely to come from the political and financial in-fighting amongst the so-called united Europe ministers, than it is from the UK. Don't blame the UK for all the problems that will arise.

17 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Jul 18 2017, 20:40

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Did anyone catch Daniel Barenboim's speech at the end of his prom?

It starts at 1hr 50m.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08ymnr0/bbc-proms-2017-barenboims-elgar

18 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Jul 19 2017, 10:30

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
boltonbonce wrote:Did anyone catch Daniel Barenboim's speech at the end of his prom?

It starts at 1hr 50m.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08ymnr0/bbc-proms-2017-barenboims-elgar

He's dead right about the main problem being the lack of education promulgating isolationism and nationalism. Also agree that people fear what they don't understand and religious fanaticism can only be fought with education.

19 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 20 2017, 12:26

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Going about as well as expected:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40662740

20 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 20 2017, 12:43

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
You bellend, have you ever played poker? You don't show people your hand.

21 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 20 2017, 12:45

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Particularly when you have a terrible hand.

22 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 20 2017, 13:43

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:Particularly when you have a terrible hand.

No, particularly when you have a brilliant hand, or else people will fold.

23 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 20 2017, 15:07

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
OK I'm waiting for the EU negotiators to fold but I'm not holding my breath.

How big do you think the brexit divorce bill is going to be? We are not going to get anywhere until that issue is resolved.

24 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 20 2017, 15:12

Leeds_Trotter

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
I voted remain but I'm getting sick of hearing all about it now. We should just tell them to fuck off and not give them a penny. They can shove everything up their arse. If they have a problem with that, just tell them to bring it on. We've won 2 world wars, we can win a 3rd.   :uk: ::bigmachinegun::

25 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Jul 20 2017, 22:49

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Even my optimism is a little dented when I see that we are appearing to be absolutely clueless. I hope Nat is right, and its a tactic, although its a strange one if it is.

26 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Jul 23 2017, 12:52

bwfc71

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Leeds_Trotter wrote:I voted remain but I'm getting sick of hearing all about it now. We should just tell them to fuck off and not give them a penny. They can shove everything up their arse. If they have a problem with that, just tell them to bring it on. We've won 2 world wars, we can win a 3rd.   :uk: ::bigmachinegun::

Interjection time......

UK did not win 2 World wars, but the allies won 2 World wars and they were helped by many behind the "enemy" lines such as 5th columnists and resistance groups.  In other words our European bretheren helped us win the wars!

But if we were to go to war now, where are our ships, where are our fighter planes, where are our soldiers, where is our arsenal (not the football team)  all reduced by successive Governments as a cost-saving measure.

In regards to the divorce settlement, just like any divorce settlement it will take time and it is going to cost.   Unfortunately the UK are delusional in thinking we can get our way, no matter what.  It is one country of 60 million against 27 other countries of over 500 million - of course we are going to end up with a worse deal than what we currently have, but the way David Davis is conducting himself, its like watching aa very bad ITV sitcom.

UK is fast becoming aa laughing stock with the rest of the world, with regards to Brexit, and they all know when we leave we will be desperate for trade deals, and they will get the best deal for them which will mean it wont be good for us.  Look at Australia and India any Trade deal will have to include weakened immigration - something that people voted against!!!
Whilst the US will look to strengthen their own coffers from any deal with UK, whilst having a heavy fist over what Westminster does (worse than what we currently have with Brussels)

27 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Jul 23 2017, 16:53

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
bwfc71 wrote:
Leeds_Trotter wrote:I voted remain but I'm getting sick of hearing all about it now. We should just tell them to fuck off and not give them a penny. They can shove everything up their arse. If they have a problem with that, just tell them to bring it on. We've won 2 world wars, we can win a 3rd.   :uk: ::bigmachinegun::

Interjection time......

UK did not win 2 World wars, but the allies won 2 World wars and they were helped by many behind the "enemy" lines such as 5th columnists and resistance groups.  In other words our European bretheren helped us win the wars!

But if we were to go to war now, where are our ships, where are our fighter planes, where are our soldiers, where is our arsenal (not the football team)  all reduced by successive Governments as a cost-saving measure.

In regards to the divorce settlement, just like any divorce settlement it will take time and it is going to cost.   Unfortunately the UK are delusional in thinking we can get our way, no matter what.  It is one country of 60 million against 27 other countries of over 500 million - of course we are going to end up with a worse deal than what we currently have, but the way David Davis is conducting himself, its like watching aa very bad ITV sitcom.

UK is fast becoming aa laughing stock with the rest of the world, with regards to Brexit, and they all know when we leave we will be desperate for trade deals, and they will get the best deal for them which will mean it wont be good for us.  Look at Australia and India any Trade deal will have to include weakened immigration - something that people voted against!!!
Whilst the US will look to strengthen their own coffers from any deal with UK, whilst having a heavy fist over what Westminster does (worse than what we currently have with Brussels)

Exactly. It is depressing how delusional some brexit fans are about the political realities of negotiating from a weak position. The EU won't be doing us any favours as they don't want other countries to think about leaving. The Americans, especially under Trump, always put themselves first and never do us any favours. Other countries like China and India will know we are desparate and will take advantage of this.

28 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Jul 23 2017, 23:02

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
One of the main reasons that we will have a large divorce bill is because we, as a country, have always played by the rules, even to our detriment. The main European players have rarely followed all the rules, preferring to cherry pick what is best for them. As we are also a nation that sticks by its word and commitments, we will be called upon to pay up, probably for far more than we would have received had we remained within the EU. however you look at it, were screwed, and no amount of negotiating will stop 27 countries baying for blood, sensing that we are stupid enough to pay up.

29 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Jul 23 2017, 23:02

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
sorry, should have said 'paid' rather than 'received' in line 4

30 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Jul 24 2017, 10:11

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The £ multi billion payment to the EU will only be a small part of the actual cost of leaving the EU though. When you look at the cost of effectively hamstringing Government with mountains of replacement legislation for the next 5 years, the cost to industry as uncertainty and increased supplier costs take their toll, the loss of competitive advantage that has already - in a matter of months - allowed France to overtake the UK as the world's 5th strongest economy and the (at best) transitional costs of replacing foreign labour with our own workforce (if unemployed Brits are ever willing/able to take on those tougher/lower paid roles) the real cost must be approaching £ trillions rather than the billions they flippantly quote in the media.
And it won't be the international corporations that are behind Brexit who will suffer.

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