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Vasectomies Are Free

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1 Vasectomies Are Free on Wed Jan 17 2018, 11:06

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bed Bradley wrote:Sorry but how many children you have is a choice; if you can't afford them, stop having them! Vasectomies are free.

Families who have never worked a day in their lives having four or five kids and the rest of us having one or two means it's not long before we're drowning in a vast sea of unemployed wasters that we pay to keep!

There's been a bit of a kerfuffle in the media this morning about the above comments made by Tory MP Ben Bradley on social media in 2012. Predictably Labour and the LibDems have jumped all over it, and even the Tories themselves have condemned the comments.

Forget the political bullshit for a minute, isn't what Mr Bradley said true? Very few people would take on a mortgage they couldn't afford, but it seems perfectly acceptable in Britain today to have 4 or 5 kids while claiming money from the state. No one needs 4 or 5 kids. Absolutely no one.

With the NHS on its knees and the welfare state struggling to cope, isn't it about time to outlaw people having more than two kids? It wouldn't save this generation, or the next, but eventually the population would start to decrease.

Sadly, Mr Bradley has apologised for his comments. I actually think less of him now. He should have stood by his comments because I suspect a lot of people share his (and my) view.

I really can't believe there is even an argument for having 5 kids.

2 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Wed Jan 17 2018, 11:25

y2johnny


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
I can't believe im saying this but yes i agree

3 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Wed Jan 17 2018, 11:27

Growler


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
I agree with the general idea that "If you can't afford 'em don't have 'em" but punishing adults financially for being irresponsible  will inevitably harm the kids

I don't think anything can be done about  it

China had a policy of only allowing one child per couple, which resulted in a lot of baby girls disappearing because many wanted a boy.We'll have to put up with silly people breeding too many times  rather than bring in measures such as the Chinese one

4 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Wed Jan 17 2018, 11:30

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Growler wrote:I agree with the general idea that "If you can't afford 'em don't have 'em" but punishing adults financially for being irresponsible  will inevitably harm the kids


But if there was nothing to be gained financially they wouldn't have 4 or 5 kids.

Or if having more than two kids was punishable by death, they'd certainly think twice before having sex.

5 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Wed Jan 17 2018, 11:32

doffcocker

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
There's some truth in what he says, sure, it's just that only some Peter Perfect fucking Tory arsewipe would say it publicly.

The reality of it is that people make mistakes. People have kids they can't afford. In some cases it's carelessness and selfishness. Sometimes people have kids that they could afford at the time of having them, then circumstances change.

But yes, the Ben Bradleys and Natasha Dickems of the world are just spot on in everything they do.

6 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Wed Jan 17 2018, 11:36

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
doffcocker wrote:The reality of it is that people make mistakes. People have kids they can't afford. In some cases it's carelessness and selfishness. Sometimes people have kids that they could afford at the time of having them, then circumstances change.


So we should pander to these selfish and careless people?

7 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Wed Jan 17 2018, 14:34

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Here is Natasha's viewpoint expressed in the Telegraph

8 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Wed Jan 17 2018, 14:54

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
wanderlust wrote:Here is Natasha's viewpoint expressed in the Telegraph

Do you disagree with me?

9 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Wed Jan 17 2018, 20:48

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
I don’t disagree with the fact people should be far more responsible, if you don’t have the money don’t have kids. It’s a fault in our society that everyone feels as if they have to get married and have kids, it’s not the only way to live.

The issue with this is, he has either been deliberately provocative in his choice of language and extremity of his views. Or he actually is a complete twat - very possible.

10 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Wed Jan 17 2018, 23:47

Angry Dad

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
I have five boys and not one of them is a homosexual all pussy hounds, result.

11 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Thu Jan 18 2018, 10:40

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Item on the news this morning, where some parents are complaining that the 30 free hours pw of childcare, isn't being funded properly, as they've been asked to provide nappies and lunches !!!
They'll be asking to have their kids by surrogates next, all paid for, of course.

12 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Thu Jan 18 2018, 12:23

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Not the story I’ve seen? A poll has been carried out into the success of the governments free childcare scheme, and its returned damning results that the government are underfunding the scheme, leading to nurseries having to pick up the slack and increase prices for non government funded projects.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42639258

13 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Thu Jan 18 2018, 13:30

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Natasha Whittam wrote:
wanderlust wrote:Here is Natasha's viewpoint expressed in the Telegraph

Do you disagree with me?
I've been concerned about overpopulation since I learned about Malthusian Doom at school and although that specifically related to an agrarian society the principle stands. Clearly the Doom in question hasn't happened due to technological advances in food production and genetic engineering however it is assumed that technology will always be ahead of the curve yet ignores the fact that the planet has a finite amount of land and raw materials so it will inevitably go tits up eventually. I thought that the sacrifice that the Chinese made/had imposed on them probably gave the world an extra 50 years but more importantly reinforced the idea that despite being given the equipment and primeval drive it's not in our interest as a species to continue to breed at the rate we are doing. Whether or not breeding is a "right" should be debated more, but like many things in our society it is certainly considered to be a right regardless of the consequences and the biggest problem is that most cultures reward and to some extent incentivise breeding so any change would require a cultural shift as well as changes in the the legal and other societal systems. Plus no political party would be willing to question the right to breed or even just remove the support that is in place so I can't see much changing any time soon.

14 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Thu Jan 18 2018, 13:43

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
It'll never change, but one day there will just be too many people on this planet and that will be the end of life as we know it.

I don't care what anyone says, no one needs 5 children.

15 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Thu Jan 18 2018, 14:29

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Natasha Whittam wrote:

I don't care what anyone says, no one needs 5 children.

:agree:

16 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Thu Jan 18 2018, 14:32

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:
Natasha Whittam wrote:

I don't care what anyone says, no one needs 5 children.

:agree:
No one 'needs' two.

17 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Thu Jan 18 2018, 17:42

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Can we take it you have no siblings Nat?

18 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Thu Jan 18 2018, 18:22

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Soul Kitchen wrote:Can we take it you have no siblings Nat?

You can't take it, no.

19 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Fri Jan 19 2018, 10:20

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
So your parents drew benefits?

20 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Fri Jan 19 2018, 10:23

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Soul Kitchen wrote:So your parents drew benefits?

Of course not, they started Whittam International plc.

21 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Fri Jan 19 2018, 11:08

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Funding is falling short, (a problem in itself), and nurseries, etc, have decided to ask the parents to fill the shortfall for certain items. With figures like this, why shouldn't parents be asked to stump up a bit more?
My daughter and son-in-law have my 10 month old grandson attend a nursery, and it costs them £1050 per month. Obviously, part of the 36% who are paying extra to fund much of the shortfall. 
The government pays for the hours, not for the complete service, as many seem to think. Just because a government funded service is available, it doesn't mean they have to bring your child up for you. Having said that, I do accept that their figures are out of date, and they should increase what is available.

22 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Fri Jan 19 2018, 11:26

Norpig

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
We had to provide nappies to our childminder and we paid for the service wholly as we didn't qualify for child tax benefits. Childcare is very expensive and you can see why some people say it's cheaper to stay at home and claim benefits than to get back into work then lose a massive amount of your salary to child care costs.

23 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Fri Jan 19 2018, 11:42

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Agreed Mr Pig. The big problem there is that if you come out of the labour market, then it can be really difficult to get straight back in, especially if you have skills that need to be kept up to date on a regular basis. 
It isn't easy nowadays for the younger generation, and I don't see how such high prices can be justified when it comes to the caring of people, young or old.

24 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Fri Jan 19 2018, 20:22

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Natasha Whittam wrote:
Soul Kitchen wrote:So your parents drew benefits?

Of course not, they started Whittam International plc.
So your parents turned down child benefit, a given for all at the time, for their spawn? You want people to actually believe that your parents turned money down?Very Happy

25 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Fri Jan 19 2018, 21:27

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
gloswhite wrote:Funding is falling short, (a problem in itself), and nurseries, etc, have decided to ask the parents to fill the shortfall for certain items. With figures like this, why shouldn't parents be asked to stump up a bit more?
My daughter and son-in-law have my 10 month old grandson attend a nursery, and it costs them £1050 per month. Obviously, part of the 36% who are paying extra to fund much of the shortfall. 
The government pays for the hours, not for the complete service, as many seem to think. Just because a government funded service is available, it doesn't mean they have to bring your child up for you. Having said that, I do accept that their figures are out of date, and they should increase what is available.

I think you’re missing the point Glos. Funding childcare is one of the few policies the government have introduced to support working families.

So when it gets to the point that it isn’t full funded, and either nurseries or parents are picking up the shortfall, then you begin to understand why this doesn’t reflect well.

Rather than complaining about parents, surely your ire should be directed at the government?

26 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Sat Jan 20 2018, 15:40

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Don't patronise me T.R.O.Y, and you are missing my point entirely.

I believe your term' support working families' is relevant here. Supporting a family doesn't mean to take over all financial responsibility for a child's upbringing.

27 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Sat Jan 20 2018, 16:36

T.R.O.Y


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Im not going to apologise that you feel patronised, all I’m telling you is what the survey says and how the policy is being interpreted in light of it. They shouldn’t claim its fully funded if it’s not.

28 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Sat Jan 20 2018, 18:15

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
T.R.O.Y wrote:Im not going to apologise that you feel patronised, all I’m telling you is what the survey says and how the policy is being interpreted in light of it. They shouldn’t claim its fully funded if it’s not.

You really are a know-it-all. And a gobshite.

29 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Sat Jan 20 2018, 19:40

wessy

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I agree that in some cases people have more children than they can afford, however once you start down the road of limiting numbers then you need to ask who decides, i would not be happy if anyone told me i could not have another child if that was the wish of my wife and i.

Be careful what you wish for the China experiment almost made having a daughter a life or death decision, due to how there society viewed having a son. Tip of a very dodgy iceberg.

I agree with previous comments, circumstances change, two well paid people have say 4 kids and then presto they lose a job and it all goes wrong. Most people are happy with one or two, five these days is the exception so just deal with it in those terms.

In terms of the comment made by the MP it fits the concept of a conservative, Its what they believe in so he should have stood by his words, no matter how cringe worthy they are.

30 Re: Vasectomies Are Free on Sat Jan 20 2018, 19:43

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
wessy wrote:I agree that in some cases people have more children than they can afford, however once you start down the road of limiting numbers then you need to ask who decides, i would not be happy if anyone told me i could not have another child if that was the wish of my wife and i.


You and your wife might like stealing condoms from Boots, but someone tells you not to do it - the law.

Make having more than 2 children illegal and it just becomes another law to follow.

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