Keir Starmer - new Labour leader

wanderlust wrote:

Ten Bobsworth wrote:

Is it really? Well, of course, integrity is the middle name of all of them and they wouldn't dream of comparing notes before responding would they.

Perhaps that's why it's taking so long?
If Boris went to say 16 parties and there was an average of say 25 cronies at each one that's 400 sets of notes to be compared before responding.
We can probably expect the Met to conclude their investigation shortly after the next general election

Cronies???

I would imagine many people involved are Civil Servants attending at their place of work and certainly not 'cronies' of Johnson.  

Anyway, Iirc the Met only allowed seven days for them to reply in (not sure what the Met would do if they didn't - presumably issue a fine?)

There is of course a massive difference between Partygate and Beergate which no doubt will reflect in the 'honesty' of people truly reporting what they did in London in particular and that is because Sue Gray* has already undertaken a thorough inquiry in to all the various events and provided the Met with numerous pictures and videos taken during them as well as interview statements of those in attendance.

There may be some attempt at collusion at both events but I imagine it would be significantly less in London because Gray also had external evidence to corroborate what was told to her in that she also had access to CCTV and security evidence within Whitehall.

*You know that Sue Gray who you tell us is just a 'servant' to Johnson, who will write exactly what he would tell her to do, who would see her report before anyone else and that all public 'servants' like Gray, throughout the country are only there to 'serve', cover up and if necessary take a bullet for their political 'masters'.

Boris Johnson fined: Prime minister apologises after receiving fixed penalty notice for lockdown-breaking party.
https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-fined-prime-minister-apologises-after-receiving-fixed-penalty-notice-for-lockdown-breaking-party-12588712

wanderlust wrote:

Are you denying you said that...?

It's easy enough to look back through thread you said it on to find it if you've 'conveniently' forgotten you did.

Don't worry, I'll save you the time...

wanderlust wrote:The clue is in the job title Civil Servants.

Civil servants are gophers - the real power and the actual decision-making lies with the politicians...

Remember - "Yes Minister" was a comedy programme - not reality.

wanderlust wrote:

T.R.O.Y. wrote:It's all well and good Sue Gray asking Downing St officials to hand over phones, but she can't compel them to.

Couple that with the fact this report goes to Boris before being released and is only required to report the facts (and not findings) then it's little wonder many fear a whitewash.

...or graywash.

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:Apparently Sue Gray's report was finished a couple of days ago according to insiders - but has been in the hands of Boris's lawyers and HR staff since whilst they decide which bits are "fit for publication".

If Sue Gray is doing what Boris tells her to write - as you have frequently told us she is (clues in the name civil servant, remember?), then why does he need 'his' lawyers and HR staff (who too are civil servants!) to decide which bits are fit for publication?

You really need to stop believing everything you read on social media is gospel!

This is what is almost certainly happening to the report and why -

Why has Sue Gray's report not appeared yet?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60157517

Perhaps you'll care to remember what you've said numerous times now...?

I'm getting a bit cheesed off with Keir. No personality to speak of, and , when faced with an open goal, slices wide.
He looks like the picture that came with the frame, if you get my meaning.

boltonbonce wrote:I'm getting a bit cheesed off with Keir. No personality to speak of, and , when faced with an open goal, slices wide.
He looks like the picture that came with the frame, if you get my meaning.

It's his scriptwriters and strategists that want shooting. So many strong messages and arguments have been omitted from his PMQ performance and public speaking in general.
The Tories successfully stick to the same old strap lines and cliches and it seems to me that some idiot of a strategist has decided that the best way forward is to sit back and let the Tories implode instead of putting the boot in and destroying their lame propaganda.

I have no doubt that Starmer can deliver the coup de grace - it's just that he is not being given the ammo.

Where is the conversation about broken promises, missed targets, U turns and actual performance?

The problem is that Starmer  lacks  the qualities to be a leader, he doesn't seem to know when he has the ammo.

I rather think that Angela Rayner would have put the ball firmly in the back of the net on Wednesday and Boris with it!

Cajunboy wrote:The problem is that Starmer  lacks  the qualities to be a leader, he doesn't seem to know when he has the ammo.

I rather think that Angela Rayner would have put the ball firmly in the back of the net on Wednesday and Boris with it!

We should nip over to the States, and kidnap Katie Porter, a woman head and shoulders above anything we've got.

Can't happen, but I can dream.

I'll take policies over panache, sincerity over sleaze, reliability over rhetoric any time.....

We need a leader with integrity, not one with a vacuous stage-hall act.

okocha wrote:I'll take policies over panache, sincerity over sleaze, reliability over rhetoric any time.....

We need a leader with integrity, not one with a vacuous stage-hall act.

Good luck in your search.

boltonbonce wrote:
We should nip over to the States, and kidnap Katie Porter, a woman head and shoulders above anything we've got.

Can't happen, but I can dream.

I wish. Labour certainly need someone who can directly ask the questions that need asking. Or at least work out what the questions are.

Rayner, Nandy, Cooper, Reeves? And Lib Dems have a couple of worthy combatants too. Not to mention the excellent Caroline Lucas for the Greens, so much brighter, more principled and more articulate than anyone in the Cabinet.

okocha wrote:Rayner, Nandy, Cooper, Reeves? And Lib Dems have a couple of worthy combatants too. Not to mention the excellent Caroline Lucas for the Greens, so much brighter, more principled and more articulate than anyone in the Cabinet.

Sadly winning an election is not about being bright, principled and articulate these days.

Chris Bryant and Yvette Cooper would be my Labour dream team. Both highly principled, intelligent and passionate debaters who would make mincemeat out of Bodger at the dispatch box.
Also like Lisa Nandy and Angela Raynor.

I feel much relieved now because if those you’ve proposed are the best Labour can come up with, even a lying, disingenuous individual like Boris can still win the next election. It just proves the pathetic standard of politicians throughout the whole of Parliament for me.

Whitesince63 wrote:I feel much relieved now because if those you’ve proposed are the best Labour can come up with, even a lying, disingenuous individual like Boris can still win the next election. It just proves the pathetic standard of politicians throughout the whole of Parliament for me.

Think you might like this 63!

Poll says Keir Starmer worse choice for PM than Boris Johnson

...While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.

It comes with Labour MPs still feeling gloomy over Starmer’s performance at prime minister’s questions on Wednesday.

Hopes for that encounter had been high following the confidence vote held by Tory MPs over Johnson’s leadership, a move that left the prime minister deeply wounded with 148 voting against him.

However, many within Labour’s ranks found Starmer’s performance to be flat and criticised his line of questioning. Even some Tory rebels were baffled by Starmer’s performance, saying it had helped Johnson regain some stability after the confidence vote. Angela Rayner, the Labour deputy leader, also suggested that Starmer looks too much like a lawyer in public appearances and should “put some more welly” into his speeches.

Another shadow cabinet minister agreed. “He is very much, ‘here is the problem and this is the solution’. But there’s no sense of what the wider project is.”...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/11/poll-says-keir-starmer-worse-choice-for-pm-than-boris-johnson?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1654974300

Also this taken from another article...

As proved by their increasingly desperate policy ideas, Boris Johnson and his colleagues have no clue how to respond to such a complex tangle of problems. But for Keir Starmer and the Labour party, 2022’s sense of crisis is also replete with danger. So far, rather than offering any kind of cure for the malaise, Starmer has tended to look like yet another embodiment of it: a nervous, hesitant presence, seemingly as confounded as anyone else, and singularly lacking any story about where we are, how we got here and what should happen next. In its absence, if Johnson is sooner or later toppled, there may still be room for another senior Conservative to claim that they have an answer. That devout Tory free-marketeer, Liz Truss, may yet get the chance to subject us to even more of what got us in this mess. Some other Tory pretender – Jeremy Hunt, for instance – might affect to be a little more compassionate and centrist but do much the same.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/12/britain-deep-malaise-what-happens-zero-growth-bites-economy

The government has to be open and honest with the nation about the situation we're in and hard and possibly unpopular decisions have to be taken to steady the ship. Nobody seems prepared to risk political suicide.

The fallout from the Corbyn era is still fresh in peoples mind but saying that i just don't think Starmer will win an election. I fear it will take at least another GE or two before Labour have a real chance at being in power which as a life long Labour supporter saddens me.

Norpig wrote:The fallout from the Corbyn era is still fresh in peoples mind but saying that i just don't think Starmer will win an election. I fear it will take at least another GE or two before Labour have a real chance at being in power which as a life long Labour supporter saddens me.

You're probably right. We're pretty much relying on the Tories being so bad we get the 'anything but them' vote.
It's a bit like going on a hot blind date, and Nat shows up. If you did manage to get her knickers off, your first instinct would be to put them over her face.

boltonbonce wrote:
You're probably right. We're pretty much relying on the Tories being so bad we get the 'anything but them' vote.
It's a bit like going on a hot blind date, and Nat shows up. If you did manage to get her knickers off, your first instinct would be to put them over her face.

Are you trying to bait Nat into coming back Boncey?