Unlucky Thirteen.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:It's all ifs buts and maybes.

What if it's the kind of game where we need to relieve pressure (i.e every game) by having the ball stick up top.

Klasnic nicks us a goal but his style of play also aids the other teams chances of scoring 5 because nothing sticks up top.

You're watching a different game to me. The only game where it's stuck up top in recent weeks was at home to Liverpool.

Ngog's control is shocking.

However, if all we want is someone to hold the ball up then I suggest we make a bid for Mr Diouf in the Summer. He's a genius at holding the ball up and doing nowt with it.

The view must be blocked from the directors boxes you sit every game.

Ngog has been excellent and no he doesn't "do nothing with it" he brings others into the play, if they fuck it up thats not his fault.

all klasnic would do would be shoot wide, ok maybe he'll score one, but by then we'll totally overawed and 8-0 down.

Brilliant. Arguing with a bunch of dummies that goals aren't important.

No one has said that you bell.

Read the posts back and stop trying to be a cleverdick with anne widecomme. (starting on Sky Atlantic soon)

Defence is just as important as goals, and in a team like ours when the ball isn't sticking up top generally we lose.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:No one has said that you bell.

Read the posts back and stop trying to be a cleverdick with anne widecomme. (starting on Sky Atlantic soon)

Defence is just as important as goals, and in a team like ours when the ball isn't sticking up top generally we lose.

Oh right, it's the strikers fault we can't defend?

It just gets better.

Where did i say that? More made up nonsense.

Our defenders are shit, so do you want them to be defending backs to the wall for 80% of the game or 60% of the game?

Time to get out of the directors box and watch the game, put down the prawn sarni.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Goals don't win games but I'm the tactical dummy?

Goals don't win games. Scoring more than the opposition does - a difficult feat with immobile, dysfunctional forwards, even when they have the finishing abilities of Ivan Klasnic.

To a simpleton, the idea of not opting for a striker with immaculate finishing abilities simply for having a poor work rate and ball controlling/holding/dribbling abilities would seem like a negative approach, but it actually makes sense from an attacking point of view too in that strikers with these qualities - although not good at putting them away themselves, ultimately bring about more chances for other players from the possession such qualities win/maintain for the team.

i must be simple. from where i'm sitting the problem isn't klasnic, it's the complete lack of creativity from midfield and the wings that is the problem.

klasnic feeds on half-chances but we don't create them. it seems foolish to me to have our most likely scorer sitting on the bench though - he is one of only a couple of players who can score a goal from nothing. ngog isn't one of them.

going off the view that if he scores more that the others then play him then that would mean Eagles is a must for every game as well, being our second top scorer....

All players, even strikers must be team players, hence the reason why, even with his awesome first touch and shooting ability Berbatov was never Utds first choice, and I think it applies even more to a team like us.

Klasnic scores, but only in two games (I think) this season in which he has scored have we won, Stoke and QPR, and lets be honest they weren't exactly close games, got to say I think N'gog could of had goals in these (except Klasnics clever quick free kick was good thinking to be fair to him), all the others have been consolation goals except for the 2-2 Macclesfield game.

N'gogs 3 goals have been more important, i.e. the 1-2 'must win' game over Everton, these are the type of games where Klasnic does not shine, especially for 90 mins.

Both players have very different attributes, but personally I think N'gog suites the 4-5-1 we need to play better than Ivan does, I do like Ivan, but hes an impact sub, not a starter

I think Klasnic is the laziest player I've sen this season. Having the team carry him for 95% of the game is absolute bollocks. Doffer is right in that Ngog may not take his chances well, but he plays in such a way that others can capitalise on his play. Lets be honest, Klasnic is on the downward side of his career, and if he can't raise himself to at least put a bit of effort in, then you have to wonder what he's still doing here. Ngog, although a lightweight in a tackle (if he makes one) puts in more effort, is getting better as his confidence improves, and joins up any attacking force they decide to play). Although Ngog isn't the finished article by some way, Ipersonally think he is of more value on the pitch than Klasnic.

Lofty_Love wrote:going off the view that if he scores more that the others then play him then that would mean Eagles is a must for every game as well, being our second top scorer....

All players, even strikers must be team players, hence the reason why, even with his awesome first touch and shooting ability Berbatov was never Utds first choice, and I think it applies even more to a team like us.

Klasnic scores, but only in two games (I think) this season in which he has scored have we won, Stoke and QPR, and lets be honest they weren't exactly close games, got to say I think N'gog could of had goals in these (except Klasnics clever quick free kick was good thinking to be fair to him), all the others have been consolation goals except for the 2-2 Macclesfield game.

N'gogs 3 goals have been more important, i.e. the 1-2 'must win' game over Everton, these are the type of games where Klasnic does not shine, especially for 90 mins.

Both players have very different attributes, but personally I think N'gog suites the 4-5-1 we need to play better than Ivan does, I do like Ivan, but hes an impact sub, not a starter

Well said, post more.

Spot-on lofty

Lofty_Love wrote:
All players, even strikers must be team players, hence the reason why, even with his awesome first touch and shooting ability Berbatov was never Utds first choice, and I think it applies even more to a team like us.

Ruud Van Nistlerooy is another good example. Everyone thought Ferguson was mad selling him but it's been mainly all up hill for United since they ditched him for nippier forwards to partner Rooney like Saha, Tevez and most recently Hernandez.

Lofty_Love wrote:going off the view that if he scores more that the others then play him then that would mean Eagles is a must for every game as well, being our second top scorer....

All players, even strikers must be team players, hence the reason why, even with his awesome first touch and shooting ability Berbatov was never Utds first choice, and I think it applies even more to a team like us.

Klasnic scores, but only in two games (I think) this season in which he has scored have we won, Stoke and QPR, and lets be honest they weren't exactly close games, got to say I think N'gog could of had goals in these (except Klasnics clever quick free kick was good thinking to be fair to him), all the others have been consolation goals except for the 2-2 Macclesfield game.

N'gogs 3 goals have been more important, i.e. the 1-2 'must win' game over Everton, these are the type of games where Klasnic does not shine, especially for 90 mins.

Both players have very different attributes, but personally I think N'gog suites the 4-5-1 we need to play better than Ivan does, I do like Ivan, but hes an impact sub, not a starter

All this would be fine if we had other players who could chip in with a few goals. We don't. We should have our leading scorer on the pitch and find a way to get the best out of him.

I disagree, I think the team as a whole has good scoring capabilities, out of the first team I can only think of Knight who hasn't scored (yeh ok and Bogdan), and he will hopefully get replaced by Ream, just because we dont have one single Demba Ba type goal scorer doesnt mean we cant score, personally I would rather goals be a team effort than one player holding up the whole squad, they would just be sold or injured anyway knowing us.

The amount of goals we score isnt the issue, we do score goals, we've scored as many goals this season as Liverpool, our issue is that we let in too many.

Lofty_Love wrote:

The amount of goals we score isnt the issue, we do score goals, we've scored as many goals this season as Liverpool, our issue is that we let in too many.

True, but when your defence is so poor you need strikers on the pitch who can score goals.

Be honest, when we go 1-0 down do you think that's game over. I do.

Ha, yeh I probably do to be honest, but I just see that as more of a reason to not let them get that first goal instead of just trying to outscore them, its alot more risky trying to just smash in loads of goals. And going to other way, when we go 1-0 up I get very confident that we will win, when playing the 4-5-1 way we have been so much stronger, Coyle made a massive mistake at the Wigan game, and it showed we need to be more defensive, ok the 4-5-1 wasnt working great at the Norwich game before he changed it, so I can see why he took the risk, even though we lost, but Norwich are a far better team than anyone seems to give them credit for and winning away to them was never going to be easy.... anyway, back on to topic

that was basically our tactic first half of last season and resulted in lots of win and exciting scorelines but when we lost our key players and people went a bit of form it didnt work anymore, the goals stopped but we kept conceding, we need something that can be solid despite injury's or a striker bad form.

That's the biggest problem we have had under Coyle and Stoke at Wembley was the best example.

As soon as the team we play scores I have no confidence what so ever we will get it back and go on and win it, the Everton one a few weeks back was a freak one, even Moyes said everton played the worst he had seen since he took over.