Too late for play offs start preparing for August

White84 wrote:Well Apparantley the loaning out of Sordell freed up money to bring in Moritz.

Moritz wasn't on big money like Sordell. Sordell is apparently on around 20K a week. I'd imagine Moritz would have been on about half of that, so that's why we could bring Moritz in and still contribute towards Sordell's wages.

I've never subscribed to all this "I'm a proper fan, 'cos it's in my blood and I'll keep going no matter what and anybody who thinks otherwise is a fair-weather plastic!" nonsense.

Gartside ,and by extension Bolton Wanderers Football Club, does not give a shit about any one of us individually.

They are in it for the kudos and the money. If Garty couldn't get his face on telly and make a few quid out of being Chairman, he wouldn't do it. End of.

I've been a Bolton fan for 40 years and I will always class myself as such, but the game has changed dramatically in the last 20 years and I've now got to the point where I feel little or no connection with the modern BWFC.

Football started out as mass entertainment for the working class. It was an affordable way to relax on a Saturday with a group of like-minded individuals in support of a common cause.

Nowadays, football is nothing more than a cash cow for a privileged elite, who make millions out of the likes of us.

And they exploit this mythical idea that if you're a "proper" fan, you will stump up every week and hand over your cash, irrespective of how poor the experience actually is for you as a paying punter.

It's a brilliant concept. It's like organised religion with linesmen and HD replays on a big screen....

I don't think we've had a more penny-pinching manager than DF in recent years. I certainly can't think of one else who has refused to pay over the odds in the transfer market and fought every inch of the way to keep costs down like DF has.
Would a new manager do that? Doubtful. If anyone was masochistic enough to take the job he'd probably want money to spend.
As regards playing the youngsters, DF has made verbal commitments to do it but so far hasn't delivered. I don't like it but I can understand why. We're 5 points above the relegation zone.
If those youngsters were Ross Barkley or Januzaj standard I don't think he'd hesitate for a second - after all it would be an opportunity to get rid of one of the high earners and save even more money - perhaps even improve the team. But they're not.
Hopefully they'll be good enough to play at Championship level eventually, and I've no doubt they'll be selected when the time comes. None of them are world-beaters - in fact I'd be pleasantly surprised if any of them turn out to be Premiership standard. All the high-quality youngsters were and continue to be snaffled up by the top clubs, so it would be nigh on a miracle if we managed to hang on to one that slipped under their radar.

I hear fans going daft when the transfer market is open - we should sign this or that player. We can't afford to unless we sell first, so who do we sell? The ones most agree should go are unlikely to bring in any significant income from their sale. It's ironic that many of the fans who want us to buy players are the same ones who complain about the cost of games.

But they do have a right to complain. Ultimately BWFC is a product and right now it's not a great product and there's no pile of cash to improve it.

Unless new money comes into the business (and that's not likely to happen IMO) we have little choice but to scrape around the market for less expensive players who can do a better job than the ones we have and hope that the younger players develop to the requisite standard.

There has been plenty of debate about the manager and his tactics and I think you know that IMO the problem lies for the most part with the players seeing as we suffer from individual errors and an inability to take chances when we do create them. Our conversion rate is one of the poorest in this league.

Off the pitch, I think DF has had a thankless task - no money to spend, inheriting a poor squad against a background of unrealistic expectations. But even the doubters tend to think that the loanees he's brought in and the signings he's made have been an improvement on what we had. And there's no evidence of any real money having been spent. It's crystal clear that our only way back in the absence of a big investor is to gradually transform the squad by small increments - sell where possible, buy slightly better players on the cheap and develop the youth. If DF continues to do what he's been doing, little by little we'll get better but it's going to take a long time to get back. In the interim we have to accept that other clubs who we don't think much of will leapfrog us because they have more disposable income. I accept that and honestly can't think of a better manager to guide us through this tricky time - at least one that would actually take the job.

The product is likely to be poor for some time to come and fans have the right to complain. Crowds may dwindle as a result but I know from experience that the club will keep going because some fans will follow the team through these difficult times. God bless 'em.

The rest have every right to piss off and support Man United.

wanderlust wrote:I don't think we've had a more penny-pinching manager than DF in recent years. I certainly can't think of one else who has refused to pay over the odds in the transfer market and fought every inch of the way to keep costs down like DF has.
Would a new manager do that? Doubtful. If anyone was masochistic enough to take the job he'd probably want money to spend.
As regards playing the youngsters, DF has made verbal commitments to do it but so far hasn't delivered. I don't like it but I can understand why. We're 5 points above the relegation zone.
If those youngsters were Ross Barkley or Januzaj standard I don't think he'd hesitate for a second - after all it would be an opportunity to get rid of one of the high earners and save even more money - perhaps even improve the team. But they're not.
Hopefully they'll be good enough to play at Championship level eventually, and I've no doubt they'll be selected when the time comes. None of them are world-beaters - in fact I'd be pleasantly surprised if any of them turn out to be Premiership standard. All the high-quality youngsters were and continue to be snaffled up by the top clubs, so it would be nigh on a miracle if we managed to hang on to one that slipped under their radar.

I hear fans going daft when the transfer market is open - we should sign this or that player. We can't afford to unless we sell first, so who do we sell? The ones most agree should go are unlikely to bring in any significant income from their sale. It's ironic that many of the fans who want us to buy players are the same ones who complain about the cost of games.

But they do have a right to complain. Ultimately BWFC is a product and right now it's not a great product and there's no pile of cash to improve it.

Unless new money comes into the business (and that's not likely to happen IMO) we have little choice but to scrape around the market for less expensive players who can do a better job than the ones we have and hope that the younger players develop to the requisite standard.

There has been plenty of debate about the manager and his tactics and I think you know that IMO the problem lies for the most part with the players seeing as we suffer from individual errors and an inability to take chances when we do create them. Our conversion rate is one of the poorest in this league.

Off the pitch, I think DF has had a thankless task - no money to spend, inheriting a poor squad against a background of unrealistic expectations. But even the doubters tend to think that the loanees he's brought in and the signings he's made have been an improvement on what we had. And there's no evidence of any real money having been spent. It's crystal clear that our only way back in the absence of a big investor is to gradually transform the squad by small increments - sell where possible, buy slightly better players on the cheap and develop the youth. If DF continues to do what he's been doing, little by little we'll get better but it's going to take a long time to get back. In the interim we have to accept that other clubs who we don't think much of will leapfrog us because they have more disposable income. I accept that and honestly can't think of a better manager to guide us through this tricky time - at least one that would actually take the job.

The product is likely to be poor for some time to come and fans have the right to complain. Crowds may dwindle as a result but I know from experience that the club will keep going because some fans will follow the team through these difficult times. God bless 'em.

The rest have every right to piss off and support Man United.

 The root of the matter analysed superbly.   

Breadman wrote:"The rest have every right to piss off and support Man United. "


And the Award For Completely Missing The Point goes to............

Fair enough. Man United isn't the place it was for fans who want to see money thrown around to buy success. Perhaps I should have said City?

See....there it is.

That haughty, "I'm better than you because I still pay my money to the club because I'm a proper fan and you're not" dig.

If you're happy enough getting shafted every week when you hand your cash over, fair enough.

But I've got more sense.......

Baptiste is on a lot of money. Tierney and Beckford are probably the same.
We're assuming Charlton are paying Sordell's wages in their entirity, which - if the £20k figure is accurate - I find hard to believe. A lot of loan players have come in that won't have cost nothing.

Freedman gives the impression of someone that wants to be careful with the club's money, but I'm not banking on it.

What I think will keep Dougie in a job with us, is that he has got an eye for a bargain and his loan signings such as McNaughton, Danns and Feeney, they have turned out pretty good. 

I can imagine Gartside & Eddie being contented with a manger who isn't wasteful in the transfer market, with finances now being so tight at the club.

Just look at the amount of money that can be saved by offloading these players?
Mears 15K week (estimated)
Knight 20K
Andrews 20K
Eagles 20K
Sordell 20K
N'Gog 30K

We are talking around 6.5 million pa in wages there, with 5 players who Dougie is desperate to offload. (easier said than done)

I think if Dougie can keep us in the Championship and rebuild the team with players on a fraction of the above mentioned wages and hopefully better quality ones of course, his job will be safe, for a while yet.

Here's how I see it. Fans are customers, people who pay money to buy a product or service or to purchase entertainment. 

Football is meant to be the latter and frankly it is a rather expensive form of entertainment when compared to other ways of spending two to three hours of leisure time. EG Going to the cinema, going out ten pin bowling with friends or things of that nature. 

If the entertainment on offer is not enjoyable then the fans as customers have every right to be unhappy and to withhold their money by not going to the next match or matches. The way some fans believe that they have a DUTY to sit through rubbish and dross and that they MUST pay through the nose to do so is exactly why most football clubs see them as mugs and treat them with contempt. I for one do not believe this 'You have to support the team no matter what' mantra anymore because it's foolish to keep paying out the kind of money we're asked for unless we get some sort of value for it in return. I love Bolton Wanderers and always will but I won't blame anyone who says they aren't going to go to another match if this carries on. I stopped going myself during the Megson era and didn't return until after he was sacked. I don't think things are quite as bad now, the division between club and fans isn't quite as bad but it's heading that way and although I won't stop going myself just yet I can totally empathise with those who decide they will. Sometimes the best way to show we care about the club is to stop giving them our money in the hope they'll see sense and stop the rot while they still have a club to run.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Here's how I see it. Fans are customers, people who pay money to buy a product or service or to purchase entertainment. 

Football is meant to be the latter and frankly it is a rather expensive form of entertainment when compared to other ways of spending two to three hours of leisure time. EG Going to the cinema, going out ten pin bowling with friends or things of that nature. 

If the entertainment on offer is not enjoyable then the fans as customers have every right to be unhappy and to withhold their money by not going to the next match or matches. The way some fans believe that they have a DUTY to sit through rubbish and dross and that they MUST pay through the nose to do so is exactly why most football clubs see them as mugs and treat them with contempt. I for one do not believe this 'You have to support the team no matter what' mantra anymore because it's foolish to keep paying out the kind of money we're asked for unless we get some sort of value for it in return. I love Bolton Wanderers and always will but I won't blame anyone who says they aren't going to go to another match if this carries on. I stopped going myself during the Megson era and didn't return until after he was sacked. I don't think things are quite as bad now, the division between club and fans isn't quite as bad but it's heading that way and although I won't stop going myself just yet I can totally empathise with those who decide they will. Sometimes the best way to show we care about the club is to stop giving them our money in the hope they'll see sense and stop the rot while they still have a club to run.

top post, if I didn't have a season ticket I wouldn't pay to watch the shite that's been served up all season!!!!!!!

I agree that chopping and changing managers is not the way ....... with one major exception....when the manager you bring in is worse than the one you fired.  It's just a mistake that's all .....Fat Phil thought Doogie was up and coming with ideas etc......turns out to as numb as a piss stone.  Cut your losses and start again.....

Start the rebuild now for next season.....don't drag this on fot the next bloke to be lumbered.