The stupidity of Gaza

Just to go back to the Balfour Declaration (supported by the League of Nations including America at the time) it's notable that when we reneged on the agreement with the Sharif of Mecca after he'd helped drive out the Ottomans, we facilitated his overthrow by supporting the now Saudi Royal Family in their takeover.
We played a massive part in making the Palestinians homeless whilst establishing the Saudi state all in a very short period of time - and now we're reaping the consequences of it.

wanderlust wrote:Just to go back to the Balfour Declaration (supported by the League of Nations including America at the time) it's notable that when we reneged on the agreement with the Sharif of Mecca after he'd helped drive out the Ottomans, we facilitated his overthrow by supporting the now Saudi Royal Family in their takeover.
We played a massive part in making the Palestinians homeless whilst establishing the Saudi state all in a very short period of time - and now we're reaping the consequences of it.

Whether we did or we didn't is irrelevant as it happened over a 100 YEARS AGO!!!

I don't think anyone would know the consequences of their actions a 100 years into the future, do you?

Brexit might be a brilliant success by then!

It's been common practice this Bonce for years - and what I've been banging on about for just as long - DON'T BELIEVE WHAT YOU READ ON SOCIAL MEDIA UNTIL YOU FACT CHECK IT YOURSELF!

Even today Wanderlust posted this...

wanderlust wrote:Seeing the Israeli Minister appear on television and calling the entire Palestinian nation - not Hamas - "human animals who will be treated accordingly" and not getting sanctioned for it is symptomatic of 50 odd years of dehumanising the very people whose lives they have cast into poverty and deprivation.

IT SIMPLY WAS NOT TRUE!!!

Sluffy wrote:Fake news apparently...

“We are fighting human animals and we act accordingly,” Gallant said.

While it appears that Gallant was specifically referring to Hamas fighters in that comment, the rest of the minister’s remarks called for further oppression of all people in Gaza by denying them basic human needs.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/israel-defence-minister-human-animals-gaza-palestine_uk_65245ebae4b0a32c15bfe6b6

Most people simply believe what they read on social media as gospel!

That's the way the world is now, unfortunately.


Fwiw Bellincat's confirmation that the story was fake...

I'm always amazed that people who don't trust the so called 'mainstream media' will happily listen to news emanating from some social media sites.
It's not all fake of course, but I tend to find that people will happily devour anything that plays into their prejudices, and there lies the problem.
It's going to get worse as AI really kicks in, and, as Beau says in the video, we have to train ourselves to counter it.
However, I'm not hopeful it's going to happen.
I thought the internet might set us free. All we've done is paint the bars.

boltonbonce wrote:I'm always amazed that people who don't trust the so called 'mainstream media' will happily listen to news emanating from some social media sites.
It's not all fake of course, but I tend to find that people will happily devour anything that plays into their prejudices, and there lies the problem.
It's going to get worse as AI really kicks in, and, as Beau says in the video, we have to train ourselves to counter it.
However, I'm not hopeful it's going to happen.
I thought the internet might set us free. All we've done is paint the bars.

Exactly, and again what I've been saying for years - and let's be frank, is the root of nearly all the problems we've had on Nuts - collective hatred for Brexit, collective hatred for the Tory Party, a few having total denial of global warming being man made, imminent and the devastating consequences to our planet and those having to live through it, I would even suggest a strong 'dislike' of me on here is because the collective 'group think' is that I'm the one who has caused all the problems and ruined the site - not to mention being obsessive, antagonistic, confrontational, and all the rest of the adjectives used to describe me including being a wanker and a cunt!

How often have I banged on about confirmation bias and the need to go beyond your self-imposed information bubbles?

We get what we deserve as they say.

At least nine NATO staff and over 30 Palestinian refugees seeking sanctuary in NATO establishments killed so far in the bombing of Gaza. There will be questions asked at some point.

boltonbonce wrote:I'm always amazed that people who don't trust the so called 'mainstream media' will happily listen to news emanating from some social media sites.
It's not all fake of course, but I tend to find that people will happily devour anything that plays into their prejudices, and there lies the problem.
It's going to get worse as AI really kicks in, and, as Beau says in the video, we have to train ourselves to counter it.
However, I'm not hopeful it's going to happen.
I thought the internet might set us free. All we've done is paint the bars.

Quite right but it does flag up issues than can be cross-checked with more reliable sources. In the case of the Egyptian warning, I checked with various sources and most prevaricated as it's difficult to verify - Egyptian intelligence are obviously reticent to disclose details of their role as intermediaries between Hamas and Israel and Israeli intelligence don't want to appear daft however I was finally swayed by the FT who cited two of their own sources in Egypt.
But ultimately all sources have limitations and angles including the BBC who increasingly quote other media these days.

wanderlust wrote:
Quite right but it does flag up issues than can be cross-checked with more reliable sources. In the case of the Egyptian warning, I checked with various sources and most prevaricated as it's difficult to verify - Egyptian intelligence are obviously reticent to disclose details of their role as intermediaries between Hamas and Israel and Israeli intelligence don't want to appear daft however I was finally swayed by the FT who cited two of their own sources in Egypt.
But ultimately all sources have limitations and angles including the BBC who increasingly quote other media these days.

It would seem, according to some, that they simply stopped using the internet, hence the lack of 'chatter'.

boltonbonce wrote:
It would seem, according to some, that they simply stopped using the internet, hence the lack of 'chatter'.

Hamas?
I would have thought that Israeli intelligence would have spies planted, telephone calls monitored, a network of informers, listening devices and a whole bunch of other James Bond stuff in place. Maybe Hamas fooled them with two cans and a very long piece of string? Or pigeons.

wanderlust wrote:
Hamas?
I would have thought that Israeli intelligence would have spies planted, telephone calls monitored, a network of informers, listening devices and a whole bunch of other James Bond stuff in place. Maybe Hamas fooled them with two cans and a very long piece of string? Or pigeons.

Low tech often works wonders.

wanderlust wrote:

boltonbonce wrote:I'm always amazed that people who don't trust the so called 'mainstream media' will happily listen to news emanating from some social media sites.
It's not all fake of course, but I tend to find that people will happily devour anything that plays into their prejudices, and there lies the problem.
It's going to get worse as AI really kicks in, and, as Beau says in the video, we have to train ourselves to counter it.
However, I'm not hopeful it's going to happen.
I thought the internet might set us free. All we've done is paint the bars.

Quite right but it does flag up issues than can be cross-checked with more reliable sources. In the case of the Egyptian warning, I checked with various sources and most prevaricated as it's difficult to verify - Egyptian intelligence are obviously reticent to disclose details of their role as intermediaries between Hamas and Israel and Israeli intelligence don't want to appear daft however I was finally swayed by the FT who cited two of their own sources in Egypt.
But ultimately all sources have limitations and angles including the BBC who increasingly quote other media these days.

You checked with various sources...

That must be a first for you them.

Most reports derive from a primary source, in this case it became public from Congressman Michael McCaul, the House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee head.

I put his news interview video up on the other Israel at War thread that you rehashed to avoid explaining why you had lied on this one above.

I'm clearly not a Middle Eastern intelligence expert but those who are - such as the Egyptians, Americans, Israelis (and no doubt several other countries as well) simply didn't pick up anything like enough information of a credible threat on the scale it was, that came from Hamas in Gaza as it did.

It is more than likely British Intelligence also were involved, they clearly know what is going on in the Ukraine war and I don't doubt that the Financial Times source (probably the original and primary one that McCaul made public) was where all the various reports have stemmed from - there is a very long history of journalist being spies or working for their country's intelligence agencies.

Ask yourself why the FT would just happen to have a journalist in Cairo who randomly gets told about something in the air in Gaza - how newsworthy is that to the British readers of their paper?

The Egyptians it would seem caught wind of something, passed it on, and the intelligence service of whichever country shared it with other countries and the general consensus was that the threat wasn't deemed to be a valid threat at the time and Israel kept its tanks and its troops pointing at the West Bank and not surrounding Gaza - maybe the intelligence agencies thought it was an attempt to misdirect Israel in pulling their troops away from the West Bank to Gaza - and the real attack coming from the West Bank.

Clearly Iran was involved in this and clearly again that wasn't picked up by the western intelligence agencies and those friendly to the west such as Egypt's.

Clearly everything was planned in a way not to alert the west and it seems word of mouth between trusted couriers was the basis of how it happened.

The problem is how radicalised these people are - look at how IS acted in neighbouring Syria for instance.

It seems that people are willing to die for their cause, to be martyred to gain their aims,

How do you stop and alter that?

Fwiw this is the head of Ukrainian intelligence views of what is going on in Israel.

NOTE - click on the blue 'Show More' link.

Hamas in a nutshell...

This is sort of interesting if you follow stuff like this, Israel has been bombing Syrian airports.

The reason goes something like this...

Israel's sworn enemy is Iran.

Iran has sworn to wipe Israel off the map and for many years have been trying to develop an atomic bomb to do so - or so the west alleges.

For decades Iran has been the Arab 'bad guys' - all the country's in that part of the world (bar Israel) are Muslim but Iran is Shia Muslim and most of the rest Sunni.

They are still the same religion but in recent years due to the west led collapse of Saddam in Iraq and the vacuum it created for IS to fill, the US pulling out of Syria leaving the Russians to fill, and Saudi's killing of Khashoggi and the wests reaction to it, the regional policy is less friendly facing to the west and moving to wanting the west to stop being the world leader/policeman as it has been doing.

The net result is Iran not being the local bad guys they once were.

Iran provided troops to help Syria along with Russia to keep President Assad in power, and provides Lebanon Shia Muslim 'army' (Hezbollah) with troops and weapons.

Iran is without doubt the nation behind the Hamas invasion of Israel this week - there's more than a hint of Russian involvement behind it too.

Lebanon and Syria both boarder Israel to the north and Israel and the west fear a Hezbollah invasion from Lebanon - thus Israel is attacking Syrian airports as a waring shot, so to speak.

Posted at 14:02
Israel attacks Damascus and Aleppo airports - Syria state media

State media in Syria says Israel has targeted airports in its capital Damascus and the city of Aleppo.

State news agency Sana reported that "bursts of missiles" had led to damage to the airports’ landing strips and had put them out of service.

Local media also say that Syrian air defences were launched in response to the attacks.

The UK-based war monitor the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR) reported several explosions in Aleppo.

The BBC has not been able to independently confirm the reported attacks.

The reported airstrikes come a day before the Iranian foreign minister was expected to visit Syria.

Both countries are avowed enemies of Israel, and Iran has long backed Hamas.

Israel frequently bombs targets in Syria linked to Iran and the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah, but rarely acknowledges the strikes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67073970/page/2


Interesting article flowing from the above -

Israel sends soldiers to north fearing attack from Hezbollah in Lebanon

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67087828

Massive upsurge of antisemitism in the Russian mainstream propaganda machine - including from primetime presenter Solovyov - who is Jewish.

All seen Hitchens on this?

Mate, you don't seem to get it do you?

People can sometimes/often be right but not listened to.

They are ignored for whatever reasons and the world does something else and moves on.

Hitchens was right about the unfairness of Israel being imposed on Palestine and fwiw so was my dad and no doubt millions of others too.

But the world took a different direction.

You can't unwind this, you can't unwind Brexit, Bob can't unwind how people feel about Anderson.

All we can do is to make the best of it from now on.

Hitchens died 12 years ago, Jesus Christ said in his book to 'Love thy brother' (John 15:12) and he died 2000 years ago - he was right too - but nobody listened, they are not listening still.

Even the Torah says 'love thy neighbour as thy self (Leviticus 19:18).

There's probably something similar in the Quran.

The issue isn't that we got it wrong up to now - as you view things, and waste your life brewing your hatred from - the issue is how to do it right from now on and mend the best we can what has been broken or lost.

Stop the killing of all the innocents on both sides would at least be a start.

That is what we can hopefully make happen - listening to Hitchens from 12 years or more ago and thinking 'yeah he nailed it' or going on and on about Brexit, or Bob making it his mission to show the world the Administrator got it wrong - won't actually change a thing, will it, you have to start from where we are - not what we should have done.

The hospital bombing has certainly upped the tension.
Bit of a whodunnit for many people but sympathisers of both causes will already have made up their minds.
The Israelis will obviously deny it and have produced a very inconclusive video suggesting it was Hamas. The video has a suspect timeline and an explosion way bigger than any Qassam rocket has ever achieved - they are home made roman candles after all.
Palestinian sympathisers have already decided it was the Israelis and are taking to the streets everywhere.
I was hoping Biden's visit would be an opportunity to de-escalate the situation but this has just f**** things up.

This is very interesting