Is it time to throw the towel in?

It's been clear for some time now that there's no money left in the pot for signing players and we're stuck with the likes of Madine, Heskey and the rest of the dross that no one else will employ for the foreseeable. 

If you believe the rumours, ED's wired up to a life support machine somewhere in Port Erin being fed through a straw and his family have secured the power of attorney over his business dealings and have no interest in dumping any more cash into the Macron Money Pit.

We're two points adrift at the foot of the Championship table and it sounds (and looks if last night's team selection and tactics are anything to go by) as if Lennon's had enough of being given empty assurances about money and he's just about thrown the towel in where BWFC is concerned.

No sign of any takeover materialising any time soon, despite Nat's mole's indications to the contrary and so we are stuck in a seemingly downward spiral with little or no sign of any respite.

Is it time to finally face facts, accept our fate and call in the administrators?

We might as well take the points deduction now and accept the fact that we'll be playing in League One next season because, let's face it, there's every chance we will wind up there anyway and at least we could wipe the debt and start again.

Or do we just carry on as we are, losing the majority of our games, Lennon walks / gets forced out and we find ourselves stuck in League One anyway?

Thoughts?

Not so long ago I would have said no but we are pretty much operating that way as a football team anyway. We can't sign players so would we really be any worse off as a team? The debt gets wiped and we start again, with a major focus on developing home grown talent and blooding our youngsters. The only thing that would bother me would be the what ifs. What if we somehow managed to turn this around and get out of trouble, because if we did indeed throw in the towel, the points deduction would all but guarantee relegation. If we did go for administration, would we be better off spending our first season in that situation in league one or the championship? I don't have a definitive answer but at this point I wouldn't be totally against it.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Lennon was ever promised any more money than he has had or is currently available to him and after what happened to Dougie I can't believe that he took the job in the first place without being fully aware of the financial situation.
I think he is finding the job and the division a lot harder than he anticipated.
I think he has freed up money for players but hasn't been able to find the quality he needs in the right areas as evidenced by the widely reported knock backs he's had.
I think his public persona exudes quiet confidence, a disciplined approach and strong leadership and regardless of what he is really like - because in reality he might well be a stubborn idiot with no skills as we just don't know - the media and fans will give him far more rope than previous less media savvy managers.
And I think there is no point in doing anything other than fighting for our survival. We can manage to get relegated without a points deduction thank you very much and anyway filing for bankruptcy  does not guarantee the right to continue trading - unless there is a financially viable forward plan in place which there isn't. And we can always do it later so what's the rush?
Finally, I think Lennon has got it all wrong. I know the squad is poor but Lennon has been unable to engender the basic positive traits that any team can adopt regardless of player quality e.g. organisation, determination and "fighting spirit" which I haven't seen recently from my armchair.

Breadman wrote:

Is it time to finally face facts, accept our fate and call in the administrators?

No it fooking isn't, BWFC should pay its debts just like every other company out there.

We're bottom of the league and have scored the fewest goals too. 

Away from home we can't keep the ball out of the net and we absolutely no creativity. 

Some of that is down to personnel and finances and some of it is down to Lennons inability to outwit and out manage the opponent. 

I honestly think hes a decent manager but this league is cut throat and once you're on a bad run its very hard to pull it back. I felt the same about dougie.

i've said this a million times on here, the silence is deafening from Gartside when it comes to how the club is run and what the long term plans are. Is there a takeover imminent or not?

I can't bear to think what the crowds will be like if we do go down, i  might get a row all to myself i reckon 

We surely can't survive any lower down the leagues with such a massive debt, it would definitely end in administration if it happens

There's one consistent thing in the downslide over the past years..... Jabba the Garty.  Blaming the players and rotating managers is a waste of time.  My suggestion is lower the asking price to 20 mill and sell sell sell.

Norpig wrote:i've said this a million times on here, the silence is deafening from Gartside when it comes to how the club is run and what the long term plans are. Is there a takeover imminent or not?

If we got anywhere near a sale I'm sure PG would be shouting it from the rooftops but to my knowledge no enquiry to date has got past the kicking the tyres stage - and with good reason. Compared to other clubs we have very limited growth potential. No other club has the geographical competition for fans that we have so our realistic catchment area is tiny and our fanbase which peaked when we were in the premiership is unlikely to grow much if at all. 
I would be delighted and amazed in equal proportions if someone was daft enough to buy BWFC even at a knockdown price.

I'm feeling very negative overall but in terms of a takeover there are plenty of things about the club that would make it attractive to a buyer in particular the fact we have the infrastructure and facilities of a Premier League club. The price will have to come down, but we'll get a buyer eventually.

eventually, but how much lower or worse do things have to get before someone steps in?

Who knows mate, but for this season we haven't got a cat in hells chance IMO.

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Even best case scenario I doubt a deal would go through to give us any money for January, so Lennon's got to do whatever he can to keep us up. The board have a lot of questions to answer but I doubt we'll get any.

I don't think the price could come down though. If someone offered say £20million for the club it would be more profitable to close the club down, sack the staff and sell off the ground, land, players, training facilities and any other assets that could turn a profit.

I suspect some of these have already been sold off, but the principle is that if the market won't get anywhere near the asking price, it opens the door to closure and asset-stripping.

It would be an enormously disrespectful thing to do to ED after he's given everything to the club but  I wouldn't rule it out if he dies.

I'm starting to sense that you're paraphrasing ideas that you have heard from "someone in confidence" now and I wouldn't expect you to elaborate (obviously) but if what you're saying's accurate, we'd all better start lighting candles for ED in our local churches and passing round the bucket to buy him a life-support machine.

(Just a quick caveat to what I've said: I think ED's done very handsomely out of his time involved with BWFC and I suspect that his altruism was offset by the interest he's earned on money leant at a higher rate than most high street banks charge.)

Just to be clear Dave: I haven't heard anything to suggest ED is about to pop his clogs in the near future. 
As regards his ROI I believe he charged 10% when we were riding high and then deferred interest when it was apparent we were skint. If he sells at a knockdown price he may actually end up with a substantial net loss. Either way, he financed our cashflow for years which deserves to be rewarded IMO.

wanderlust wrote:I don't think the price could come down though. If someone offered say £20million for the club it would be more profitable to close the club down, sack the staff and sell off the ground, land, players, training facilities and any other assets that could turn a profit.

I suspect some of these have already been sold off, but the principle is that if the market won't get anywhere near the asking price, it opens the door to closure and asset-stripping.

It would be an enormously disrespectful thing to do to ED after he's given everything to the club but  I wouldn't rule it out if he dies.

Aye.... and if we go under..... well it's been a good run, over 100 years. At lot of clubs will go under in the next 20 years IMO.

bwfc1874 wrote:I'm feeling very negative overall but in terms of a takeover there are plenty of things about the club that would make it attractive to a buyer in particular the fact we have the infrastructure and facilities of a Premier League club. The price will have to come down, but we'll get a buyer eventually.

We'll get a buyer eventually?

What makes you so sure? I have absolutely no confidence at all that this will happen.

But if administration was executed, Eddie would still be the owner so how does his millions stand as the debt? And if Garty is to be believed,  there isn't all that much owed to the bank. There's something more fishy about Bolton than Fleetwood. As said, you'd have thought Phil would make some sort of statement, probably like, "I'm still taking my pay, cos I'm that sort of bloke."

rammywhite wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:I'm feeling very negative overall but in terms of a takeover there are plenty of things about the club that would make it attractive to a buyer in particular the fact we have the infrastructure and facilities of a Premier League club. The price will have to come down, but we'll get a buyer eventually.

We'll get a buyer eventually?

What makes you so sure? I have absolutely no confidence at all that this will happen.

Just trying to be positive Rammy, contrary to popular belief I'm not actually a psychic.

Sorry, I'm a bit late to this thread.

In simple terms there won't be any entering into Administration at Bolton whilst Davies owns 95+% of the club.

For any business to be put into Admin, the only people who can apply for it are the ones who the debt is owed to.

The Administration companies are not cheap to employ either.

So it would simply make no sense for Davies to apply for Administration against himself!

It would be far easier (and considerably cheaper) for Davies to simply write off the debt, or more likely, convert it to equity (Davies basically pumps the money into the club, rather than expect it to be repaid to him).

The debt figure is basically meaningless - the problem is more that there is no investment into the club from anywhere - not from Davies anymore, nor Sky Premier League monies, nor potential partners or buyers and only precious little from gate receipts.

The reality is that we have to cut our cloth these days according to our means - which is very little!

Up to Lennon really to make the most of what he's got.

Allardyce managed to get us up off fresh air - I can't imagine anyone is able to do it for us again.

Things are not looking at all good.