Hamilton v Bolton

I still like OC but also accept all the critics views. I am not seeing any improvement and it's getting harder to defend. If we get off to a poor start then I'm on board to get rid.

I neither expect to win or lose pre-season friendlies, they mean absolutely nothing I only take an interest in who's looking match fit or if we have a new signing out there.

For the players it's an opportunity to get some fitness. They aren't going out there flying into tackles, sprinting about, giving 100% to win a friendly. It's unnecessary, they just want to avoid injury and get back into some football. Read nothing into this, we'll judge Coyle and the squad after we've played Burnley, that's when it matters.

Butty - by 'selective grasp' I am referring to what I consider to be your conscious decision to pick and choose aspects of the situation which fit your desiderata - ie to have a good old whinge about Coyle.

The 'left back problem' you refer to is a perfect example. Rather than acknowledge that Ricketts' return from injury solved that problem over 6 months ago, you point out that he's a right sided player. But he's played really well at left back since his return from injury, and we have two other specialist right backs in the first team squad. There simply isn't a left back problem and there hasn't been for months.

I think you're too eager to moan about Coyle and that's why I suggest you should hang fire until you have something credible to moan about. If you want to write about problems that aren't there though (ref: your line about "I will continue to do so as when I see fit", that's your prerogative of course, but you'll have to accept that others may exercise their own prerogative to point out the glaring holes in your logic, when such holes are present.

I'm not happy to lose 2-0 to a Scottish first division team either, by the way, but in the grand scheme of things all that matters is the 46 league games for which points are awarded. This is why the manager is playing 22 players, giving youngsters a run out and trying different systems of play.

terenceanne wrote:If we get off to a poor start then I'm on board to get rid.

I'm pretty much on board with this comment. Not sure where exactly I would draw the line, but if we're, say, 9-10 points off the play off zone by the end of October, it will be time for Coyle to go. We have to be in contention for promotion a third of the way through the season.

Gartsides blind faith in him will probably give him more time than what we would give him.

I think the board will assess how the team is going just before december but personally with the opening fixtures we have I would be dissapointed if we are not in at least a play off spot by the start of november.

largehat wrote:

I think you're too eager to moan about Coyle

You're not the first person to suggest we should wait for a chunk of the season to pass before we let rip on Owen Coyle, as if the Summer breaks cancels out the previous 18 months of utter shite.

If your company had a sales manager who hadn't sold a thing for 18 months, they wouldn't wipe the slate clean when he returned from his Summer holidays.

Everyone knows Coyle should have been sacked a long time ago, I already have my "I Told You So" post written.

It's simple, "Natasha".

The manager's pre-season performance is almost totally irrelevant. It doesn't even give a reliable indication of early season form.

I've never heard of a manager losing his job based on pre-season friendlies in the 150 year history of the professional game. There's a really, really obvious reason for that, which you choose to ignore.

largehat wrote:It's simple, "Natasha".

The manager's pre-season performance is almost totally irrelevant. It doesn't even give a reliable indication of early season form.

I've never heard of a manager losing his job based on pre-season friendlies in the 150 year history of the professional game. There's a really, really obvious reason for that, which you choose to ignore.

So if we lose at Burnley am I ok to start the Coyle Out threads?

Natasha Whittam wrote:
So if we lose at Burnley am I ok to start the Coyle Out threads?

Since when did my opinion ever stop you from starting Coyle out or any other threads?

In answer to your question, you will be 100 times more justified in starting a Coyle out thread if we lose at Burnley than you are having lost a pre-season friendly, but at the same time, I think even the most ardent critic of Coyle would not want to sack him after one game. Most people have said they will give him a month. I have said I will give him until the end of October. That would allow a new manager time and opportunity to turn things round. I want Coyle to succeed, you don't, even though he was your first choice when Megson left. We're all entitled to different levels of patience and understanding, mine are genuine, yours are driven by a desire to WUM and troll.

largehat wrote:

In answer to your question, you will be 100 times more justified in starting a Coyle out thread if we lose at Burnley than you are having lost a pre-season friendly, but at the same time, I think even the most ardent critic of Coyle would not want to sack him after one game. Most people have said they will give him a month. I have said I will give him until the end of October. That would allow a new manager time and opportunity to turn things round. I want Coyle to succeed, you don't, even though he was your first choice when Megson left. We're all entitled to different levels of patience and understanding, mine are genuine, yours are driven by a desire to WUM and troll.

So you're giving him until October before you think he should be sacked - why? Why is he good enough now but not in October?

You won't admit it but you know he's not upto it.

I will take stock after 10 games.

If we're well off the pace and playing completely shit that will be time to think about a new start IMO.

I'm honestly more concerned about our playing style next season than anything else.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

I'm honestly more concerned about our playing style next season than anything else.

The biggest problem last year was not having a playing style. We seemed neither a long ball team nor a passing team.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

So you're giving him until October before you think he should be sacked - why? Why is he good enough now but not in October?

You won't admit it but you know he's not upto it.

Change the record Natasha. I'm not like you, I don't spend hours over many months arguing for something I don't really believe. I respect Owen Coyle and want to give him a fair chance this coming season. You don't. Bully for you.

largehat wrote:

Change the record Natasha. I'm not like you, I don't spend hours over many months arguing for something I don't really believe. I respect Owen Coyle and want to give him a fair chance this coming season. You don't. Bully for you.

So you are giving Coyle three months out of respect? That's fair enough, but it's not a business decision - and BWFC is a business. If we end up sacking Coyle in October we'll already be off the pace for promotion and a new man will have to get rid of the dead wood Coyle has given new contracts to - Knight, Davies etc.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

I'm honestly more concerned about our playing style next season than anything else.

The biggest problem last year was not having a playing style. We seemed neither a long ball team nor a passing team.

Well yes, as i've said before thats been my biggest disappointment since Coyle has come in.

Whether he's been a victim of circumstance is obviously up for debate but i've not been impressed with the kind of style he's implemented on the team.

I think now he's got the chance to employ more of our young players, in a lower league we might see a bit more flair.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

largehat wrote:

Change the record Natasha. I'm not like you, I don't spend hours over many months arguing for something I don't really believe. I respect Owen Coyle and want to give him a fair chance this coming season. You don't. Bully for you.

So you are giving Coyle three months out of respect? That's fair enough, but it's not a business decision - and BWFC is a business. If we end up sacking Coyle in October we'll already be off the pace for promotion and a new man will have to get rid of the dead wood Coyle has given new contracts to - Knight, Davies etc.

*sigh*... no, I'm not "giving Coyle three months out of respect". I believe he will do well in those (two and a half months), but if he does badly, then given our urgent need to go up this season, it will be probably necessary to make a change.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

Well yes, as i've said before thats been my biggest disappointment since Coyle has come in.

Whether he's been a victim of circumstance is obviously up for debate but i've not been impressed with the kind of style he's implemented on the team.

I think now he's got the chance to employ more of our young players, in a lower league we might see a bit more flair.

I think one of the reasons I'm so anti-Coyle is all the bollocks that was talked when he came that he was going to turn us into a passing team. I actually think the passing is worse than in the Megson years.

I could accept being shite if we were trying to play football because eventually it might click - but we're not even trying.

Were exactly the same under coyle then we were un megson, even with a few new players we still can't pass a ball for shit.

Look at norwich when they were in league one, sacked that dr.evil look a like after one game and brought Lambert in, now look at them.

P.s I'm not saying we should or would do that but i'm just saying it has been done and has worked.

Coyle had Burnley playing up and down football so he can clearly coach that style.

For whatever reason, it hasn't quite happened here.

If it's going too, it'll be this year.

I hope he can turn it round, I'm confident he can.

Fingers crossed.

For anyone who wants to see what OC said after the Hamilton game here it is:-

Wanderers Manager Owen Coyle said his squad took another important step towards match fitness in the pre-season friendly at Hamilton.

22 players were involved in the 90 minutes including new signing Andy Lonergan who made his first appearance in a Bolton shirt.

Coyle said: "This was our second game after six training sessions and it enabled us to get the squad more game time against a bright and competitive Hamilton side.

"While no one likes to lose, we have to ensure that as many of the players all get a run out. We made use of 22 of our squad so that is bound to impact on the playing style.

"Saying that, in the first half we should have come in at least 3-0 up on the chances we had. Their goalie made some great saves with his legs and then we were guilty of shipping a couple of sloppy goals.

"Pre-season is all about fitness and that will always be the main aim. We will make sure we step that up over the next few weeks as we move towards August 18.

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