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"Coolest monkey in the jungle!"

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1 "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 20:33

Leeds_Trotter

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Right so you have probably all seen it on the news and in the papers regarding the kid who was used to model a hoodie for H&M with the words "Coolest monkey in the jungle" written on it.


Now people are all up in arms about this calling H&M out on this saying it is racist and the company should know better. However personally I do not know what all the fuss is about, people are definitely getting way too offended and defensive over it. I thought the whole point of not being racist was to see past skin colour? We are all supposed to be equal are we not, so why should this be classed as racist when it wouldn't have been if a white kid was modelling the hoodie?

Surely the only way we stamp out racism in the world is by not playing the racism card at every opportunity and learning the difference of when something is being used in a derogatory manner and when it is not.

On another note the N word is a big one for me, black people call each other it all the time however they find it very offensive if someone of a different skin colour uses the word. Surely if it upset them that much they would stop using it themselves? Maybe they should set the example by not using it.

But then it all ties back to my previous point of in what way things are said I guess. What is your thought on the subject? Surely in order to move forward in the world, we have to leave the past in the past and stop getting offended so easily, especially when we know things are not said or done in a derogatory way.

2 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 20:37

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Leeds_Trotter wrote:Surely the only way we stamp out racism in the world is by not playing the racism card at every opportunity

:facepalm:

Were you wearing white robes and a hood when you wrote that?

3 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 20:43

Leeds_Trotter

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@Leeds_Trotter wrote:Surely the only way we stamp out racism in the world is by not playing the racism card at every opportunity

:facepalm:

Were you wearing white robes and a hood when you wrote that?
They are currently getting the Daz treatment.

4 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 20:50

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Didn’t even need to open this to know you’d have that opinion.

5 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 20:51

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Reebok Trotter will be on to support you within the hour.

6 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 21:00

Leeds_Trotter

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@T.R.O.Y wrote:Reebok Trotter will be on to support you within the hour.
He's a smart man is RT.

7 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 21:25

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I don't see what the problem is with the jumper?

People need to get a grip!

8 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 21:28

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Don’t think it’s the jumper people are annoyed about.

9 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 21:32

Leeds_Trotter

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@T.R.O.Y wrote:Don’t think it’s the jumper people are annoyed about.
People Can't see past skin colour clearly.

10 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 21:37

Reebok Trotter

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

@T.R.O.Y wrote:Reebok Trotter will be on to support you within the hour.

Yes and you are correct. The term 'cheeky monkey' is often used to describe a young scallywag and is neither gender or race specific. LT is right.

11 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 21:38

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
It’s a beyond stupid move from H&M, I’m sure heads will roll for it. 

The fact of the matter is you’re a white guy from leeds, so tell me what on earth qualifies to judge what should and should not offend black people?

12 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 21:39

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Reebok Trotter wrote:Yes and you are correct. The term 'cheeky monkey' is often used to describe a young scallywag and is neither gender or race specific. LT is right.

:facepalm:

13 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 21:49

Boggersbelief

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
There are white kids modelling the same jungle theme on their website yet they’ve chosen to let the black child wear that particular hoodie, it is pretty racist tbf

14 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 21:52

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Boggersbelief wrote:There are white kids modelling the same jungle theme on their website yet they’ve chosen to let the black child wear that particular hoodie, it is pretty racist tbf
I didn't hear the kid or the family complain...

15 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 21:55

Leeds_Trotter

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Is the advert used in a derogatory way towards any race[size=30]? Does the advert incite hate towards any race? The answer to both those questions is no it doesn't. People should stop being snowflakes, no way does this advert discriminate against any race. It's all been blown out of proportion by the far left. Even I as a Labour voter think it's a complete joke to be offended by this. There was no malicious intent from the company. If it is racist like people claim, then why did the parents not say this before allowing the photo to be used? This country is begging to have too many soft arses who get upset over nothing. God help us if the country ever went to war and conscription was brought back. We'd be doomed with an army full of soft arses.[/size]

16 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 21:55

Boggersbelief

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@karlypants wrote:
@Boggersbelief wrote:There are white kids modelling the same jungle theme on their website yet they’ve chosen to let the black child wear that particular hoodie, it is pretty racist tbf
I didn't hear the kid or the family complain...

Money talks

17 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 21:59

Leeds_Trotter

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Boggersbelief wrote:
@karlypants wrote:
@Boggersbelief wrote:There are white kids modelling the same jungle theme on their website yet they’ve chosen to let the black child wear that particular hoodie, it is pretty racist tbf
I didn't hear the kid or the family complain...

Money talks
So by your theory I can be racist towards someone as long as I pay them? Haha come on now.

18 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 22:01

Boggersbelief

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Leeds_Trotter wrote:
@Boggersbelief wrote:
@karlypants wrote:
@Boggersbelief wrote:There are white kids modelling the same jungle theme on their website yet they’ve chosen to let the black child wear that particular hoodie, it is pretty racist tbf
I didn't hear the kid or the family complain...

Money talks
So by your theory I can be racist towards someone as long as I pay them? Haha come on now.

No, try again

19 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 22:03

Leeds_Trotter

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Boggersbelief wrote:
@Leeds_Trotter wrote:
@Boggersbelief wrote:
@karlypants wrote:
@Boggersbelief wrote:There are white kids modelling the same jungle theme on their website yet they’ve chosen to let the black child wear that particular hoodie, it is pretty racist tbf
I didn't hear the kid or the family complain...

Money talks
So by your theory I can be racist towards someone as long as I pay them? Haha come on now.

No, try again
Look at the end of the day the family were happy for it to be used probably because they can see past skin colour and know that the advert was not malicious or derogatory in any way shape or form.

20 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 22:05

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Leeds_Trotter wrote:Is the advert used in a derogatory way towards any race[size=30]? Does the advert incite hate towards any race? The answer to both those questions is no it doesn't. People should stop being snowflakes, no way does this advert discriminate against any race. It's all been blown out of proportion by the far left. Even I as a Labour voter think it's a complete joke to be offended by this. There was no malicious intent from the company. If it is racist like people claim, then why did the parents not say this before allowing the photo to be used? This country is begging to have too many soft arses who get upset over nothing. God help us if the country ever went to war and conscription was brought back. We'd be doomed with an army full of soft arses.[/size]

I think it was more likely sheer stupidity than racism from H&M, but guess what black people find the word monkey offensive and are sensitive to it's use - maybe something to do with centuries of persecution. So if that's a fucking surprise to you then please don't go anywhere near the army either, we don't need anymore idiots running around with guns.

So answer my question, what qualifies you to decide what black people find offensive?



Last edited by T.R.O.Y on Wed Jan 10 2018, 22:05; edited 1 time in total

21 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 22:05

Sluffy

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Admin
I very nearly posted something of the same ilk yesterday about Political Correctness simply going way to far.

It is and always as been the intent of what was said that matters and not always the words you use.

I've even posted on Nuts before how I never use the word 'monkey' in speech any more - such as you 'cheeky monkey' for fear of some PC idiot thinking I was being racist.

In fact I've noticed that I've modified my behaviour over recent years just to keep clear of any 'issues'.  For instance if I ever find myself as the only adult around young women or school kids - say on the underground or in a queue at a shop, I'll sit a distance away from them or stand in the open where I can be clearly seen, well away from them.  

I know things change over time - I'm old enough to remember when saying that someone was 'gay' meant that they were happy and wasn't a homosexual reference - and it's right that there should be gender and ethnicitical equality but it clearly is going too far when people read into things that simply are not there.

If a white child was pictured with the same slogan would there have been an outcry - I think not - other than perhaps those saying black children are being unrepresented on advertising campaigns such as this one!

I've found that the deeper Political Correctness has become established the less I say or do in general day-to-day life, for fear of being labelled a racist/sexist/homophobic or whatever, when I'm actually none of those.

It's right and proper that the next generation sets its norms of acceptability and change for the better those issues of my generation that have become outdated and no longer acceptable - but it doesn't follow that all of us who grew up with those old norms are themselves racist/sexist/etc.

If thirty or forty years ago I was having a pint with the father of the child in the H and M picture and he took the piss out of me and I replied to him 'you cheeky monkey' I certainly would never have intended it to be a racist remark - and more to the point nor would he.

We both would think very differently these days however - and that isn't necessarily a good thing when the words have become more powerful than the meaning they were intended to carry.

To be honest though whoever thought up the Advert with a black child and a tag line with the word 'monkey' in it (and those who vetted and approved it) are either remarkably stupid - or knew exactly what they were doing and have got everybody talking about H and M - with probably loads of people like me defending them because no racism was ever intended.

There's no such thing as bad press - or so they say.



Last edited by Sluffy on Wed Jan 10 2018, 22:08; edited 1 time in total

22 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 22:07

Reebok Trotter

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
A few years ago we went to play Brentford and we were having a pint outside one of the three pubs left on the four corners. One of the Wanderers faithful put a plastic pint pot on the roof of a Ford Fiesta parked outside the front of the pub. An upstairs window opened and this Southern Jessie popped his head out and shouted ' Oi, you Norvern monkeys, get your facking glass off the roof of my car.'  
We thought it was hilarious. We didn't complain to the race relations board and none of us were hurt by his derogatory remark. Nobody was traumatised enough to go to A & E.  Faux offence is the worst because it's insidious.

23 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 22:10

Reebok Trotter

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y wrote:It’s a beyond stupid move from H&M, I’m sure heads will roll for it. 

The fact of the matter is you’re a white guy from leeds, so tell me what on earth qualifies to judge what should and should not offend black people?

 I’m offended that he’s not offended and you don’t seem to be offended. In fact I’ve offended myself! 
Who can be up in arms, we call our kids cheeky monkeys, it’s endearing not offensive.

24 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 22:10

gloswhite

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Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
I don't think it was meant in a racial manner, it would be far too obvious and offensive for that. However, I do think whoever OK'd this was way off the mark, considering the current world, where everyone is upset by everything. 
I don't think its racist, but I can see how the genteel, and real racists, can see an insult in it.

25 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 22:15

Leeds_Trotter

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@T.R.O.Y wrote:
@Leeds_Trotter wrote:Is the advert used in a derogatory way towards any race[size=30]? Does the advert incite hate towards any race? The answer to both those questions is no it doesn't. People should stop being snowflakes, no way does this advert discriminate against any race. It's all been blown out of proportion by the far left. Even I as a Labour voter think it's a complete joke to be offended by this. There was no malicious intent from the company. If it is racist like people claim, then why did the parents not say this before allowing the photo to be used? This country is begging to have too many soft arses who get upset over nothing. God help us if the country ever went to war and conscription was brought back. We'd be doomed with an army full of soft arses.[/size]

I think it was more likely sheer stupidity than racism from H&M, but guess what black people find the word monkey offensive and are sensitive to it's use - maybe something to do with centuries of persecution. So if that's a fucking surprise to you then please don't go anywhere near the army either, we don't need anymore idiots running around with guns.

So answer my question, what qualifies you to decide what black people find offensive?
Intelligence that's what. To know the difference between when something is said or done in a derogatory way towards someone of a different ethnicity or when something is not. Now if the t-shirt said little black monkey on it, then yeah sure to me that would be offensive and people would have a right to be up in arms about the whole thing. It's all about how things are said or done in context. 

I say the same thing for all the feminist who complained about t-shirts for little girls saying stuff like pretty on them when the boys ones say king or whatever. It's pathetic and there is really no need for them to get their knickers in a twist over it.

26 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 22:17

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
You’re so intelligent you can’t empathise with a group of people who have been persecuted for centuries based on their skin colour being sensitive to a word that to this day is still used a racial slur towards them. Maybe they interpret its use in a different way to you. 

Make sense at all?

27 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 22:17

Reebok Trotter

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@T.R.O.Y wrote:
@Leeds_Trotter wrote:Is the advert used in a derogatory way towards any race[size=30]? Does the advert incite hate towards any race? The answer to both those questions is no it doesn't. People should stop being snowflakes, no way does this advert discriminate against any race. It's all been blown out of proportion by the far left. Even I as a Labour voter think it's a complete joke to be offended by this. There was no malicious intent from the company. If it is racist like people claim, then why did the parents not say this before allowing the photo to be used? This country is begging to have too many soft arses who get upset over nothing. God help us if the country ever went to war and conscription was brought back. We'd be doomed with an army full of soft arses.[/size]

I think it was more likely sheer stupidity than racism from H&M, but guess what black people find the word monkey offensive and are sensitive to it's use - maybe something to do with centuries of persecution. So if that's a fucking surprise to you then please don't go anywhere near the army either, we don't need anymore idiots running around with guns.

So answer my question, what qualifies you to decide what black people find offensive?

How do you know this? Are you a spokesman for black people? It's alright shooting from the hip and claiming the moral high ground but what qualifies you to question the opinion of another poster just because he lives in Leeds? I'll pose the same question to you TROY. What qualifies YOU to decide what black people find offensive? The ball is in your court.

28 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 22:24

Leeds_Trotter

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@T.R.O.Y wrote:You’re so intelligent you can’t empathise with a group of people who have been persecuted for centuries based on their skin colour being sensitive to a word that to this day is still used a racial slur towards them. Maybe they interpret its use in a different way to you. 

Make sense at all?
I'd empathise if the term monkey was been used in a derogatory way towards them in an advert of course I would, but in this instance it isn't. There are plenty of black people out there who think the whole think is ridiculous and some people are being pathetic over it all.

29 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 22:27

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Reebok Trotter wrote:
@T.R.O.Y wrote:
@Leeds_Trotter wrote:Is the advert used in a derogatory way towards any race[size=30]? Does the advert incite hate towards any race? The answer to both those questions is no it doesn't. People should stop being snowflakes, no way does this advert discriminate against any race. It's all been blown out of proportion by the far left. Even I as a Labour voter think it's a complete joke to be offended by this. There was no malicious intent from the company. If it is racist like people claim, then why did the parents not say this before allowing the photo to be used? This country is begging to have too many soft arses who get upset over nothing. God help us if the country ever went to war and conscription was brought back. We'd be doomed with an army full of soft arses.[/size]

I think it was more likely sheer stupidity than racism from H&M, but guess what black people find the word monkey offensive and are sensitive to it's use - maybe something to do with centuries of persecution. So if that's a fucking surprise to you then please don't go anywhere near the army either, we don't need anymore idiots running around with guns.

So answer my question, what qualifies you to decide what black people find offensive?

How do you know this? Are you a spokesman for black people? It's alright shooting from the hip and claiming the moral high ground but what qualifies you to question the opinion of another poster just because he lives in Leeds? I'll pose the same question to you TROY. What qualifies YOU to decide what black people find offensive? The ball is in your court.

Thanks for putting the ball in my court. I know it’s caused offence because it’s in the press for that exact reason. 

I don’t find it offensive, but as far as I’m concerned it’s not up to white people to decide what black people find offensive.

30 Re: "Coolest monkey in the jungle!" on Wed Jan 10 2018, 22:30

Leeds_Trotter

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@T.R.O.Y wrote:
@Reebok Trotter wrote:
@T.R.O.Y wrote:
@Leeds_Trotter wrote:Is the advert used in a derogatory way towards any race[size=30]? Does the advert incite hate towards any race? The answer to both those questions is no it doesn't. People should stop being snowflakes, no way does this advert discriminate against any race. It's all been blown out of proportion by the far left. Even I as a Labour voter think it's a complete joke to be offended by this. There was no malicious intent from the company. If it is racist like people claim, then why did the parents not say this before allowing the photo to be used? This country is begging to have too many soft arses who get upset over nothing. God help us if the country ever went to war and conscription was brought back. We'd be doomed with an army full of soft arses.[/size]

I think it was more likely sheer stupidity than racism from H&M, but guess what black people find the word monkey offensive and are sensitive to it's use - maybe something to do with centuries of persecution. So if that's a fucking surprise to you then please don't go anywhere near the army either, we don't need anymore idiots running around with guns.

So answer my question, what qualifies you to decide what black people find offensive?

How do you know this? Are you a spokesman for black people? It's alright shooting from the hip and claiming the moral high ground but what qualifies you to question the opinion of another poster just because he lives in Leeds? I'll pose the same question to you TROY. What qualifies YOU to decide what black people find offensive? The ball is in your court.

Thanks for putting the ball in my court. I know it’s caused offence because it’s in the press for that exact reason. 

I don’t find it offensive, but as far as I’m concerned it’s not up to white people to decide what black people find offensive.
Can you imagine a world where we are all that pathetic? People should starting using their brain and work out when people are and are not being offensive.

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