Jon Venables

rammywhite wrote:

Reebok Trotter wrote:

BoltonTillIDie wrote:I’ve seen picture comparing him now to the child pics and they do seem to
be him.  Eating a pizza.  The one who appeared to be the more evil one, the ringleader maybe, hasn’t reoffends yet.  Watched the documentaries and they were very evil...was the sentence enough?  No way

Venables was the ringleader and was deemed the more dominant personality. They sent him to the approved secure unit for children at Barton Moss which is next to Barton Airport. It's a pretty picturesque setting and looks more like a stately home with nice gardens rather than a secure unit. It was very convenient for Venables to be placed there because it was only a short hop down the M62 for his mother to visit him. Thompson, never re-offended and now lives under an assumed identity. By all accounts he is a model citizen who is now married and has a steady job.

I wonder if Thompson has told his missus who he is?

I do believe, if any belief can be attached to this tale, that Thompson is gay and if married it's to a bloke. He was also alleged to have served in the Army, specifically Royal Green Jackets. They were given new identities so maybe the army didn't pick him up as his police record would be under his "Other" name. Not sure I can believe that as the papers ask for family back to the year dot. Lots of stories about these two, but I imagine Venables is too much a recidivist to have any hope of rehabilitation. Better saving feelings for young Bulger. Poor little sod never given a chance, unlike these two evil buggers.

Interesting belief, what makes you say that Bollo?

I'll try to find the link, though I first saw it on a military website. As I remember it, a daily newspaper had mentioned marriage and military service though there are some of us who believe that may have been a story put out as a smokescreen. I doubt too much credibility can be put on any story due to the anonymity granted to these two.
Here you go. This is page 25 of a 26 page thread. The whole lot is worth a read for the vast array of opinion. Though the posters I point to are quite intelligent and pucker bods. Apart from the tragedy, there's some humour and lots of anger generating posts. You won't have to log in as you are only reading the posts.

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/bulger-killer-jon-venables-released-from-prison.203486/page-25

Thompson apparently lives in Australia and has done for over ten years. Venables clearly has a deviant streak and is likely to to re-offend when he is next released. His propensity for child pornography would suggest that he is unlikely to be be rehabilitated. Two previous convictions for indecent material followed by a police caution for an undisclosed matter shortly after his release doesn't bode well for his future behaviour. He will be 37 when he is next released and in my opinion is still a clear and present danger to young children.

Venables should now be kept in for life. He's had several chances now and somebody with a 'how to have sex safely with a child' manual in his PC is clearly going to offend again.

The original 8 year sentence was a fucking joke and then he has committed a string of other serious crimes since, not to mention the affray and possession of drugs that were previously swept under the carpet. Someone has also mentioned above something that happened in the children's home that was also hidden from the public. I have never read that but can well believe it.

When you weigh up the amount of tax payers money that has been spent on this disgusting human being, it really is difficult to argue against the death penalty.

Angry Dad wrote:

wanderlust wrote:No surprise whatsoever that Venables is disturbed. When I heard the recordings of them being interviewed by police as 10 year old children it was obvious they were scared shitless and didn't really understand what they had done, and being jailed and demonised in the media at that age probably put the cap on any chance of them ever being rehabilitated.

Poor Boy you got to feel sorry for him  he was only playing a game, I'm sure most of us have played let's kill a baby at one time or another when we were 10 year old's it's only natural eh?

I blame the parents.
Whilst I don't fully endorse Gerhardt's view i.e. "a propensity to violence, or at least uncontrollable emotions may be hard-wired into abused children", I suspect that as Venables was battered and abused as a child, that was the reason why he did what he did. Extreme violence was "normal" for him as he had spent his entire life up to the age of 10 being the victim of it. All the studies show that violently abused kids don't develop the bits of the brain that control emotions and one particular study which used brain scans on Romanian orphans in the 90s reported a "black hole" where those bits should be.

However, the point I made was about rehabilitation which is possible with some abused kids but the hysterical witch hunt put an end to any possibility of that.
At no point was it recognised that these kids were damaged goods and they were publicly judged as sane but evil adults rather than as mentally ill children.

Good to know that the hysteria bandwagon of righteous indignation is still alive and well on here though. 

Burn the witch! Burn the witch!

Jesus Lusty i thought i was a liberal but that takes the biscuit!

Although I think Venables is now beyond rehabilitation, I think Lusty makes a good point in that rehabiltation has to be an option, the justice system needs to (and does in most case) remove emotion from cases such as this.

I wouldn't want him living next door to me. And shouldn't I have a right to know,if he was?

boltonbonce wrote:I wouldn't want him living next door to me. And shouldn't I have a right to know,if he was?

Nobody would want him as a neighbour because he's totally f****d up but society, and especially his evil mother should accept some of the responsibility for that. If you believe that babies are born innocent then you might even think they are entirely responsible. That said, nowadays he is what is regardless of who is to blame and therefore needs to be locked up until he proves otherwise but I reckon the time for rehabilitation has long since passed.

Norpig wrote:Jesus Lusty i thought i was a liberal but that takes the biscuit!

I don't think it's "liberal" to accept that nurture plays just as much a part in children's personal development as nature does.

Rehabilitation can work. Look at Mary Bell. There was a case in Norway a few years ago where the two killers were only six. It makes interesting reading.

https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2010/mar/20/norway-town-forgave-child-killers

wanderlust wrote:

Norpig wrote:Jesus Lusty i thought i was a liberal but that takes the biscuit!

I don't think it's "liberal" to accept that nurture plays just as much a part in children's personal development as nature does.

Nature and nurture combines to makes the person.

Sadly numerous children are mistreated.

The thing though is that it is relatively rare for 'children' no matter how abused to kill.

Even when fully grown into adults it is still statistically rare for them to murder children.

Clearly Venables subsequent behaviour as been such as to show that the many years of attempting to rehabilitate him as failed.

There is clear evil inside him - ie he's not wired up right - nurture may have made it worse but it certainly didn't cause it - otherwise there would be numerous cases of child killing by other children if that was the case.

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Norpig wrote:Jesus Lusty i thought i was a liberal but that takes the biscuit!

I don't think it's "liberal" to accept that nurture plays just as much a part in children's personal development as nature does.

Nature and nurture combines to makes the person.

Sadly numerous children are mistreated.

The thing though is that it is relatively rare for 'children' no matter how abused to kill.

Even when fully grown into adults it is still statistically rare for them to murder children.

Clearly Venables subsequent behaviour as been such as to show that the many years of attempting to rehabilitate him as failed.

There is clear evil inside him - ie he's not wired up right - nurture may have made it worse but it certainly didn't cause it - otherwise there would be numerous cases of child killing by other children if that was the case.

Nearly 400 children have been convicted of murder in the last two decades - but none as young as Venables and Thompson and most of the victims were adults, often their parents.
It has always happened and 99% of the time it is kids who have been badly abused/neglected who perpetrate the crimes. Anyone else remember Mary Bell from the 60's? A 10 year old who murdered 2 younger kids in separate incidents. Classic case which eventually led to her rehabilitation, marriage and raising a family but primarily because she was treated as a psychiatric case rather than criminal.

Didn't they both originally blame it on watching a horror film on TV?

Childs play 3

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Norpig wrote:Jesus Lusty i thought i was a liberal but that takes the biscuit!

I don't think it's "liberal" to accept that nurture plays just as much a part in children's personal development as nature does.

Nature and nurture combines to makes the person.

Sadly numerous children are mistreated.

The thing though is that it is relatively rare for 'children' no matter how abused to kill.

Even when fully grown into adults it is still statistically rare for them to murder children.

Clearly Venables subsequent behaviour as been such as to show that the many years of attempting to rehabilitate him as failed.

There is clear evil inside him - ie he's not wired up right - nurture may have made it worse but it certainly didn't cause it - otherwise there would be numerous cases of child killing by other children if that was the case.

Nearly 400 children have been convicted of murder in the last two decades - but none as young as Venables and Thompson and most of the victims were adults, often their parents.
It has always happened and 99% of the time it is kids who have been badly abused/neglected who perpetrate the crimes. Anyone else remember Mary Bell from the 60's? A 10 year old who murdered 2 younger kids in separate incidents. Classic case which eventually led to her rehabilitation, marriage and raising a family but primarily because she was treated as a psychiatric case rather than criminal.

That equates to an average of just 20 deaths per year compared to an ocean of child abuse that occurred during that time. Statistically it proves beyond doubt that it is extremely rare for a child to kill another child no matter how abused they themselves might have been.

I dare say even of the 400 convicted of murder most would be 15/16/17 years olds convicted of knife crimes and not premediated in the way that Venables and Bell's crimes were.

Rehabilitation can work as in the case of Bell and Thompson but has clearly not in Venables case.

BoltonTillIDie wrote:Childs play 3

That was it.

Regarding the nature/nurture debate I definitely think there is case for both.

I worked with a woman who had worked a good few years at Ashworth high security hospital where Brady was kept. I was interested to know her professional opinion and asked if she thought some people were born evil. She said without hesitation a most definite yes.

Didn't the other lad have a perfectly reasonable upbringing?

Lots of info here:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/nov/01/bulger.familyandrelationships