Stuart Holden wants to leave Bolton Wanderers!

By the time McGinlay had made his reputation with us, he was already on the brink of the PL. He knew he could achieve this with Bolton. Holden knows we will never be in the Champions League.

The analogy is bollocks on every level. Holden hasn't said "I want to play for Tottenham or Man City and in the CL". He just wants to play in the CL. If that could be achieved with Bolton there's no suggestion, from Holden, from Natasha or anyone else, that he wouldn't be delighted about that. His ambition would be fulfilled. Why is this statement of Holden's about playing at a specific level analogous to John McGinlay hypothetically wanting to join Coventry City? Fans take a far, far dimmer view if a player names a specific club they want to play for instead. Natasha's post is unfair on Holden.

McGinlay was not good enough for the PL. Whether Holden is good enough for the CL is a matter of debate.

If you consider that McGinlay made his name for us during the 'White Hot' years, 92/93/94 then we were at the start of that time a third tier team.

It was a couple more seasons before we first reached the Premier League in 95/96.

A desire for a player playing the likes of Exeter, Stockport and Port Vale to play in the Premier League would have been understandable - the analogy of wanting to play in the Premier League (Natasha only used the names of two clubs at that time for an example of achievable aspiration - not specific destination) seems quite reasonable to me.

I can't believe this has created so much debate.

a player has ambitions to play in the champions league. Christ! Who'd have thought it.

When Coyle comes out and says "We were brilliant" he's a tosser and a lier and should tell the bloody truth, Holden tells the truth and he's a tosser.

You're absolutely right, Hipster. This is a pointless debate. The lad has said nothing wrong.

As soon as a player starts talking about clubs other than the one he's playing for the writing is on the wall. Holden will be off like a shot when you go down.

Bolton Hater wrote:As soon as a player starts talking about clubs other than the one he's playing for the writing is on the wall. Holden will be off like a shot when you go down.

Read again, fatboy, he didnt mention any other club but its his ambition to play in the Champions League. Just like it was John McGinlays ambition to play in teh Premiership. Thats all it is is an ambition whetehr it will happen or not is actually down to Holden when he is fully fit as the only way is for him to get noticed as a good player than be bought by a club.

As it is, if we go down I cannot see Holden moving on as he hasn't played this season due to injury and which club is stupid enough to gamble on buying him and being good (apart from Championship Venkyburn Rovers) - but there again the January window could be different story.

bwfc71 wrote:

Read again, fatboy, he didnt mention any other club but its his ambition to play in the Champions League. Just like it was John McGinlays ambition to play in teh Premiership. Thats all it is is an ambition whetehr it will happen or not is actually down to Holden when he is fully fit as the only way is for him to get noticed as a good player than be bought by a club.

You must be a bit of a pillock if you think he's talking about Bolton when he mentions the CL.

largehat wrote:Well if you know what you're typing is irrelevant bollocks to the extent that you know somebody else will pick up on its irrelevance and bollockishness, perhaps you should actually delete it and save everyone the effort.

It's nobody'a ambition to play for Southampton or bloody Coventry. If you are a 27-28 year old journeyman footballer in the early 1990s, signing for a third tier club, and you knew you had 5 years left in you tops, you'd consider what SJM achieved at Bolton as at the pinnacle of your expectations. Why the hell you think he is some sort of hero for not saying "I want to play with Peter Ndlovu and Mick Quinn at Coventry" is beyond me.

Holden does make positive sounds. Telling a journalist his best years are ahead of him is very positive after a serious injury.

Again, you choose to focus on the minor details. McGinlay was just an example - I could just as easily have said Gudni, Youri or Anelka.

The point is the same though, players who are under contract shouldn't be talking about bigger and better things unless it includes BWFC.

I agree with Natasha on this one. While I'm sure Holden was just being honest and no malice or insult was intended, he is being well paid by Bolton Wanderers and shouldn't be talking about anything other than his BWFC career.

Anonymous Journalist "So Stuart, what are your future ambitions as a footballer? Champions League?"

Stuart Holden "Playing Champions League football would be fantastic - every footballer dreams of getting there. My focus right now, however, is to get well and to do everything to help Bolton Wanderers out of the mess we are currently in - we are too good a team to be where we are."

Something along those lines would have indicated his desire to play at the highest level while including his current team into the equation - without saying that he expects Bolton to get to the CL.

James Joyce wrote, "in the particular is contained the universal."

It doesn't matter what example you use, I asked in my very first post if anyone can name a player in the history of our club who wouldn't want to play in the Champions League, and neither you or anybody else took me up on it. It's because you can't name one. And this is because it's a perfectly reasonable ambition for a PL player to have.

Even though McGinlay had his own night club and later got a tattoo, if Man U had come in for him, he'd have been off.

Americans are more straightforward than Brits, Natasha. Someone has asked Holden what he would like to achieve in the future and he's answered them.

If you ever speak to or come across Houston Dynamo fans he is worshipped by them. I am sure he made no secret of his desire to move to the PL with them before he left.

He's said nothing wrong in this interview.

largehat wrote:James Joyce wrote, "in the particular is contained the universal."

It doesn't matter what example you use, I asked in my very first post if anyone can name a player in the history of our club who wouldn't want to play in the Champions League, and neither you or anybody else took me up on it.

It's obvious that every footballer would want to play in the CL, I am not denying that.

But the clever footballers keep it to themselves. It's insulting to the fans to say you look forward to playing elsewhere.

Bolton Hater wrote:

bwfc71 wrote:

Read again, fatboy, he didnt mention any other club but its his ambition to play in the Champions League. Just like it was John McGinlays ambition to play in teh Premiership. Thats all it is is an ambition whetehr it will happen or not is actually down to Holden when he is fully fit as the only way is for him to get noticed as a good player than be bought by a club.

You must be a bit of a pillock if you think he's talking about Bolton when he mentions the CL.

I am under no illusion whatsoever, fatboy. I know at this time Bolton are not CL contenders, maybe in the future with the right management team and players, but its an ambition to reach. I cannot give a timeframe as it could be 5 years time, 10 years time or even 20, or maybe even never but its an ambition to reach for.



Venky's ambittion is to destroy Rovers from the inside and it seems they are doing a great job:D

Natasha Whittam wrote:

It's obvious that every footballer would want to play in the CL, I am not denying that.

But the clever footballers keep it to themselves. It's insulting to the fans to say you look forward to playing elsewhere.

This is where your argument falls down. You want people to lie to make you feel better.

It's not the 1st of December, Natasha, you're not 5 years old, so don't tell me you want mummy and daddy to insist that Santa is real just to make you feel better.

she wants that, unless it's Coyle, he has to tell the truth at all times.

Or maybe she's just taken this stance to get a rise out of people, oh, it's worked!

largehat wrote:This is where your argument falls down. You want people to lie to make you feel better.

I guess you're right. I'm a Bolton fan, I would consider it a privilege to play for the team I love. I want to believe that every Bolton player feels the same. They bloody well should feel the same!

Bolton shouldn't be a stepping stone, it should be the pinnacle of a career.